topic Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

CFAs Affirm: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Pikaboo-icu — Sat, 02 Feb 2019 02:45:20 GMT

OMGOSH I'm ready to tear out my hair with AFFIRM.

These people make me furious!

When I started using them, they didn't report at all. Then a couple years ago they started reporting but only to Experian.

They never disclosed they code as a CFA so even though I paid everything as agreed, in fact, early, the Affirm accounts are killing my EX score by 40 points!

I tried good will and they wont remove, in fact, they inform me they are going to start reporting to the other 2 CBs!!!

I'm filing a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission for their practises as their adverts say: "Affirm is better for your credit than credit cards"!

That is NOT true.

I had credit cards I could have and would have used if they had disclosed that they were a CFA.

Anyway- can they back report old loans that have been paid off?

The accounts are all positives- no lates EVER but they have a negative effect just like a payday loan.

I'm at my wits end with this company..

ROBERTEG, if you read this, I would really appreciate any advice you can give me.

I hope it's not: tough luck cookie.

Thanks a BUNCH!!!

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Revelate — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 03:08:48 GMT

They can to my knowledge, but I'd defer to other's legalese.

How are you quantifying a 40 point drop though from a CFA (or multiple)?

Can't directly compare FICO 8 scores or earlier across bureaus and you can't really even do that with FICO 9 but it might be more accurate there since it's designed to return more similar score values for identical files. I do have a CFA on Experian and I'm pretty certain it isn't costing me anywhere that much though I am going to try a validation route on that given the lender has been mostly shutdown currently.

Crossing fingers on that one .

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Pikaboo-icu — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 04:30:28 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
They can to my knowledge, but I'd defer to other's legalese.

How are you quantifying a 40 point drop though from a CFA (or multiple)?

Can't directly compare FICO 8 scores or earlier across bureaus and you can't really even do that with FICO 9 but it might be more accurate there since it's designed to return more similar score values for identical files. I do have a CFA on Experian and I'm pretty certain it isn't costing me anywhere that much though I am going to try a validation route on that given the lender has been mostly shutdown currently.

Crossing fingers on that one .

Mine are multiple.. 9 total now. All are from before I learned they were CFAs.

They call their financing: installment loans for purchases. I used them for online purchases at different retailers.

Things is, all of my CBs are basically identical with EX being FAR lower than the others.

It may not be exactly 40 points but it's definitely in the neighborhood.

It isn't a drop but as my score has risen only EX has failed to rise with the other two.

I keep getting the verbiage: "Too many CFA accounts" as why my score is low.

I swear if they tank my other scores I will max out my NFCU card on an attorney.

They led me down a bad path-

I filed a complaint with CFPB and they are referring me to FTC.

I'm really hoping they can't start reporting to more CB when they originally said they were going to start reporting, they said only EX.

That was the "contract" I agreed to online.

UGH

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

pizza1 — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 04:48:43 GMT

paging @RobertEG . He should get the ping, and hopefully chime in.

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Pikaboo-icu — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 04:50:50 GMT

@pizza1 wrote:
paging @RobertEG . He should get the ping, and hopefully chime in.

Thanks a million!!

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Revelate — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 17:38:53 GMT

Out of curiosity what rank is the Consumer Finance Accounts reason code on your Experian file? It's usually been firmly in the #4 slot for me personally, comparitively minor ding, or doesn't even make the list actually. I admittedly have all sorts of complainable problems with my EQ file historically.

The thing with the bureaus is they have a design goal of +/- 30 points variance under FICO 04 and FICO 8 as I understand it for an indentical file (the algorithms are tweaked per bureau), so really from a 40 point difference it could be as little as 10 points.

I've had a CFA on my reports since I started this journey unfortunately and it doesn't come off till 2022 (sigh), it's really unlikely that it is penalizing me that much as even anecdotally for similar files from a late / age / public record perspective, I've been higher than a lot of people on this forum.

That said I only have 1 CFA, maybe multiple is a larger problem but there's diminishing returns with all other negatives in the FICO algorithm I can't help but think that would apply to even the multiple CFA situation too.

Let me know what you get from the FTC, I'm curious on this one as I was told too "Helps your credit!" No, clearly it isn't all positive heh.

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Pikaboo-icu — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 19:20:22 GMT

It ranks #2 and is the only reason listed before "age of credit"

And yeah, I think one or two may not be an issue but it specifically states "too many" CFAs on Wells Fargo score so I'm sure it's the multiple.

I don't know what else could be depressing my EX score other than the CFAs.

The other CBs both list age of accounts.

I plan to follow through with the FTC complaint, in fact CFPB forwarded the complaint BUT...

That's a branch of the govt that's currently not open. UGH So I will have to wait & check up once the govt is open for business again.

There was definitely some false advertising & misleading info in "selling" this financing. I have screenshots of this as well as multiple complaints from other's online that are also suffering score problems.

I am just kicking myself as I had other cards, even cash but it was 0% and I figured what the heck, why not use their money.

I still don't understand "why" they're coded as a CFA when it was basically a set instalment loan for purchases but I don't know how any of that works.

I wrote Affirm again as I don't believe the rep, that billed herslf as a supervisor, really understood what my complaint/request is.

She told me to contact EX and dispute late payments etc.. Well, I didn't have any lates.

The worst part of this is: It's all online, they have phone reps but they are clueless to any of this type of issue.

I don't know how to find the EO's address/number etc.. So it may indeed take the FTC and/or an attorney to get to the core of it all.

I will update as I take steps and whatever the final decision/solution is, if there is one.

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Revelate — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 21:31:40 GMT

Take the "too many" to read >0 in pretty much all interpretations I've seen. I don't think there are multiple reason codes for CFA's in anything model developed since 2003 TBH and I'm not even sure there.

Our Experian reason codes are identical and I only have 1 CFA: Consumer Finance Accounts

The fact it's #2 in your scorecard though, and in my FICO 8 AU (I don't get reason codes unfortunately for my baseline or bankcard enhanced scores now) is #4behind:

1) Short Account History

2) Short Revolving History

3) Loan Balances

4) CFA

That's where we can see it's probably counting more against you than me for your multiple, though based on your score I'm fairly confident we're in a different scorecard on Experian but I don't know what the rest of your file looks like (apologies if I missed it) so we can't really do a good comparison even there.

I guess it's really hard for us to know, we have so little data around CFA's unfortunately. What I really wish is if my TU were clean and then compare FICO 9 scores as those are absolutely more addressable (if not 100% accurate) in terms of things like CFA counting if it's still a thing there. Sadly I've always had a 30D late on TU for the last several years so I couldn't get a good comparitive datapoint in the past, but my EQ/EX scores were absolutely higher than my TU ones by a bunch of points (except TU FICO 4, beats me there) and as such I'm fairly confident in saying CFA's are a pretty minor ding compared to virtually every other deliquency or derogatory.

Actually I guess I can have some fun with FICO 9 in the future whenever it gets integrated with good monitoring solutions:

1) EX - no late

2) EQ - 30D

3) TU - 60D

Everything else will be functionally identical once that CFA drops off. If I still even care about credit at that point haha.

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Pikaboo-icu — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 21:36:05 GMT

Yes, it's basically the same scoring difference in F9 35-40 points lower than the other 2.

I don't have any lates or derogs on any report. Aside from account ages.

I'm hoping & praying to be a test case..

If I get mine deleted, we'll know just about how much they were costing me once they're removed.

Sadly, it wont necessarily answer the scoring difference for one vs multiple but it's a start.

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Brooklyn2018 — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 22:12:30 GMT

Sorry Pikaboo😔

I just felt compelled to add that.

Hope Robert can find something in the advertising that can nail those sucka’s to da wall!!😡

I pray it results in some positive news🤞

Sending Luck your way🍀😉

😊

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Pikaboo-icu — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 23:21:25 GMT

@Brooklyn2018 wrote:
Sorry Pikaboo😔

I just felt compelled to add that.

Hope Robert can find something in the advertising that can nail those sucka’s to da wall!!😡

I pray it results in some positive news🤞

Sending Luck your way🍀😉

😊

Thanks my friend..

I appreciate it!

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

FireMedic1 — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 01:32:05 GMT

Sorry your going through this. I just did some research on this co. The CEO is all pumped up about how his co. is growing. Most of the articles are how they are targeting young people. I did find that Affirm emphasizes that their loans are provided by NJ-based Cross River Bank and I saw that the CEO said they only report to EX but soon will be all 3. No warnings/classifications anywhere about listing on CR's that they list it as a CFA. All the articles say financing the consumer and how it builds a score.Hope this helps. Horse...............

Fight the good fight!

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Pikaboo-icu — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 04:24:41 GMT

@FireMedic1 wrote:
Sorry your going through this. I just did some research on this co. The CEO is all pumped up about how his co. is growing. Most of the articles are how they are targeting young people. I did find that Affirm emphasizes that their loans are provided by NJ-based Cross River Bank and I saw that the CEO said they only report to EX but soon will be all 3. No warnings/classifications anywhere about listing on CR's that they list it as a CFA. All the articles say financing the consumer and how it builds a score.Hope this helps. Horse...............
Fight the good fight!

Thank you VERY much!!

Yes, this helps and I will add it to my growing file.

Thanks again!!

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 08:43:26 GMT

Yikes Pika, I’m so sorry to hear about this!

When it comes to reporting, they aren’t required to report to all bureaus but there is nothing stopping them from doing it either as far as I am aware.

It does seem totally ludicrous that they’re allowed to add these accounts to your reports though since they are positives that have a negative effect so hopefully you are able to successfully fight this (and without having to charge yourself into oblivion). ❤️

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Pikaboo-icu — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 18:05:25 GMT

Updates:

Complaint to CFPB- transferred to FTC (still closed as you know so this is on hold).

Numerous emails to Affirm's "HELP" center- what a joke, these people are so uninformed.

Filed BBB complaint- in progress.

I don't use social media, at least VERY rarely but in this case made an exception.

Posted to both Affirm and The CEO's pages and Whoop-T-Ta they both responded!!

The CEO asked for a direct message with my email and I have provided it.

Fingers crossed, lots of prayer and we'll see if this gets any results..

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 18:12:59 GMT

They do not report as a consumer finance loan for me. I believe I already mentioned this. 😂 sorry for your luck. 😞

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Pikaboo-icu — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 18:25:33 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
They do not report as a consumer finance loan for me. I believe I already mentioned this. 😂 sorry for your luck. 😞

Yeah you dodged an arrow there..

For me and many people on both this forum & around the Net they do and it's harmful

They absolutely advertise their service as "good for credit", "better than credit cards" and I have screenshots of this- it's not true.

Frankly, I wasn't holding my breath that the CEO would reply but he did and I am not only hopeful but grateful.

CFPB said the FTC would absolutely take this complaint for lending practises & false advertising but all I want is the mess of my credit reports.

If they'll do that- I'll drop all the complaints.

Anyway, Consider yourself blessed or lucky or maybe both.

SAEREN Thank you for your support! Much appreciated..

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 18:39:45 GMT

Or maybe you were just unlucky? Because I have family & friends who have not had what you have going on. I actually consulted with my Mom about them before moving forward. I will admit it’s very odd either way.

I’ll also add that my score actually increased and this was with 2 inquires hitting simultaneously. Also I’ve read at least 1 person on here say their experience was fine. It’s not hard to find because there is very little about Affirm on these boards.

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Anonymous — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 02:50:36 GMT

@Pikaboo-icu wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
They do not report as a consumer finance loan for me. I believe I already mentioned this. 😂 sorry for your luck. 😞
Yeah you dodged an arrow there..
For me and many people on both this forum & around the Net they do and it's harmful

They absolutely advertise their service as "good for credit", "better than credit cards" and I have screenshots of this- it's not true.
Frankly, I wasn't holding my breath that the CEO would reply but he did and I am not only hopeful but grateful.
CFPB said the FTC would absolutely take this complaint for lending practises & false advertising but all I want is the mess of my credit reports.
If they'll do that- I'll drop all the complaints.

Anyway, Consider yourself blessed or lucky or maybe both.

SAEREN Thank you for your support! Much appreciated..

I have been following, definitely rooting for you. 💕

I have noticed that people who say these loans aren’t coded as CFA have lower scores. It’s quite likely that they are actually coded CFA but the reason code isn’t one of the 4 showing because it’s not as impactful as the other reasons on the list. Just a theory.

Keep up the good fight though, hopefully you can get this off your report and also make a path for everyone else to follow if this happens to them!

Re: Can a Lender Start Reporting To More CBs Old Closed Accounts?

Pikaboo-icu — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 22:27:14 GMT

UPDATE: For posterity.. lol

Had waited a week and heard nothing..

I went again to social media and informed the CEO and Affirm I hadn't heard from anyone & I felt I was being placated..

Within a couple hours I got an email asking for my evidence etc.. I complied.

Fast forward 24 hours: Just got a call from a higher up at Affirm. She was very nice and understands my position on this whole thing.

She said they have no record of my dispute! Nice! Thanks Experian .. Grrrr

She's going to investigate to see if she can locate them and touch bases with EX.

She claims Affirm furnishes history as an installment loan and that it's EX coding as a CFA. Ok but that doesn't help me. SMH

I had also sent items showing they would not be in violation if they did delete these loans from my CR as I thought that might be a concern for them.

I explained that credit reporting is designed for two things; to provide positive credit info for a consumer OR to warn future lenders of a credit risk due to neg pmt history. The reporting they're doing does neither. It damages me for positive loan/payment history. She agreed.

Sooo she's going to email me a summary of our discussion, the actions she is going to take and will get back to me via phone on Monday.

There's still some hope here.. They seem to be sincerely trying to fix this mess..

Lots of prayer and crossed fingers..

Will update again with new info.