topic Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card. in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Apr 2019 22:26:43 GMT

Looking at my Chase Credit Card web page and they give both a norml FICO score and a Vantage core my FICO is at 690 but the Vantage is way down i the mid 500s ( very poor),

Do i ned to worry about the Vantage for a car or home purchase i future?

I have been trying to raise my scores and its working with the FICO ..gone from 580 to 690 i 18 months. But the Vantage and the ome from Kredit Karma are atrociously low.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 00:41:51 GMT

No need to worry about Vantage scores, as lenders don't use them. FICO scores are where it's at. Pay your Vantage scores no mind. They can fall to 400 and you shouldn't sweat it. Continue to monitor your FICO scores and ensure they are on the upswing.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 00:47:01 GMT

They do use them. As a former employee at Chase, I can tell you we pulled them. 2 ficos, 1 vantage. Wish everyone would stop with saying nobody uses them. Even the decline letters will occasionally show the VS pulled.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 08:27:09 GMT

Which FICO score? You have 3. Your Credit Karma Vantage score is TU and EQ. Without knowing the source of your FICO score you are most likely comparing scores from different reports.

If you are cleaning up your reports you need to do so across all three credit bureaus. Do a 7 day trial at creditchecktotal. This will give you all 3 FICO scores for $1. Then you will be able to see what things are on what specific reports are holding you down.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 15:50:41 GMT

@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
They do use them. As a former employee at Chase, I can tell you we pulled them. 2 ficos, 1 vantage. Wish everyone would stop with saying nobody uses them. Even the decline letters will occasionally show the VS pulled.

Hi Brian. This specific issue could become a really important discussion in itself. Your reply was polite and a discussion could be very useful as long as all participants went out of their way to be polite, friendly, and open to learning from each other. That's standard policy I know but worth reminding us of especially if it deals with someone questioning a commonly held idea here.

The more detailed information you could give us about your experience working at Chase, the better! At least in my view. For example...

* Did your reply mean that, for any CC application, three scores were always pulled by Chase, one at each bureau, with one bureau always being Vantage?

* Was a FICO score not pulled at the bureau that they used for Vantage?

* Can you tell us more about your role as an employee there? (And what years you worked there?) Were you working with the group that evaluates CC applications?

* It's widely believed that Chase uses its own in-house credit scoring model in addition to scores made by FICO. (I am not refering to Vantage.) Do you know anything about this?

* One thing that Chase certainly does is that they pull Vantage scores. Actually no one here disagrees with that. We know that because they (like tons of banks and CUs) use "free Vantage scores" as a way of attracting customers to bank with them (or use credit products). The question is whether the group that specifically approves CC applications uses Vantage scores in their decision making process. Is it possible that what Chase is doing is pulling Vantage to attract customers but not using them as a primary tool for decision making?

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

FlaDude — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 16:03:50 GMT

As BBS mentioned, FICO is much more important than Vantage, but if you are concerned about Vantage, I've found them to be much more sensitive to utilization and to opening new accounts. Do you have high utilization levels? If so, can you reduce them by either paying down or getting CLIs? That should help both scores, but Vantage espescially.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 17:28:50 GMT

My credit union (Baxter) only uses Vantage scores to make lending decisions. It became a point of frustration a few years ago when I went to purchase a car and my Vantage score was almost 100 points lower than my Fico score.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 21:26:27 GMT

Yes i have high utilization..its the way i do things. I run them up then pay them off periodically. I have perfect pay on time for as long as i can remember.

I guess i need to change the way i pay credit cards off.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 21:29:37 GMT

Just to clarify i get the FICO and Vantage score free with my Chase card ..the FICO score is from Experian, which for me has been my middle score historically

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

FlaDude — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 22:04:04 GMT

Have you tried to get CLIs on the cards you run up? A higher limit would keep the UTI lower at the same balances.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Anonymous — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 01:52:49 GMT

@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
They do use them. As a former employee at Chase, I can tell you we pulled them. 2 ficos, 1 vantage. Wish everyone would stop with saying nobody uses them. Even the decline letters will occasionally show the VS pulled.

I'd be curious to hear your reply to CGID's questions posed above.

Even if that is the case, you're still talking an extremely small percentage of instances where a lender uses them. I read a ton on this forum and have rarely (if ever) have heard of Chase using Vantage scores for anything other than their Credit Journey feature. I have not heard of Vantage scores being mentioned in decline letters, but even if that is true there are probably 100x+ examples of FICO scores being used relative to the occasional VS reference. Anyway, the spare the dead horse from being further beaten, I'll patiently wait for your reply to CGID's post, as I'm sure I'll find it interesting.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Meanmchine — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 05:31:27 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
No need to worry about Vantage scores, as lenders don't use them. FICO scores are where it's at. Pay your Vantage scores no mind. They can fall to 400 and you shouldn't sweat it. Continue to monitor your FICO scores and ensure they are on the upswing.

I agree and disagree with BBS. While it is true that Van 3 scores are not used in credit granters decisions, it would be nice to understand WHY your score drops as this could be an area of concern.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Anonymous — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 14:04:04 GMT

@Meanmchine wrote:
I agree and disagree with BBS. While it is true that Van 3 scores are not used in credit granters decisions, it would be nice to understand WHY your score drops as this could be an area of concern.

If you're monitoring your FICO scores, not really IMO. There are plenty of people on this forum that have reported profile-changing events that have caused FICO score increases while also referencing a dramatic (say, 50-100 point) VS 3.0 drop. Worrying about that VS drop relative to improved FICO scores at the same time seems like a waste of effort. If you're talking purely for educational/entertainment purposes, I get it. I've started threads and chatted it up with members like TT regarding the nuances of ultra low utilization when it comes to VS 3.0, but those chats were just for fun and wouldn't translate to "concern" at all outside of simply trying to understand that lesser used algorithm a bit more.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Anonymous — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 22:06:59 GMT

I might be a tad cynical but i have come to believe that sites like Credit Karma offer Vantage type scores in the hopes of getting their site members to get high interest loans and CCs.

Credit Karma was still pushing on me ridiculous cards like Indigo/Gettington etc when i already had a Chase Slate, Citi Double cash and American Express Cash.

Many fall for this scam.

So i think Vantage is not serious in helping people understand credit.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Anonymous — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 01:34:51 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I might be a tad cynical but i have come to believe that sites like Credit Karma offer Vantage type scores in the hopes of getting their site members to get high interest loans and CCs.
Credit Karma was still pushing on me ridiculous cards like Indigo/Gettington etc when i already had a Chase Slate, Citi Double cash and American Express Cash.
Many fall for this scam.
So i think Vantage is not serious in helping people understand credit.

Except for the fact that Credit Karma had nothing to do with creating the Vantage Score. Experian, Equifax and TransUnion got together and created the Vantage Score.

Yes, Credit Karma is business that makes money by pushing credit products. But that’s a totally and completely different subject.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Thomas_Thumb — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 01:58:51 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
They do use them. As a former employee at Chase, I can tell you we pulled them. 2 ficos, 1 vantage. Wish everyone would stop with saying nobody uses them. Even the decline letters will occasionally show the VS pulled.
I'd be curious to hear your reply to CGID's questions posed above.

Even if that is the case, you're still talking an extremely small percentage of instances where a lender uses them. I read a ton on this forum and have rarely (if ever) have heard of Chase using Vantage scores for anything other than their Credit Journey feature. I have not heard of Vantage scores being mentioned in decline letters, but even if that is true there are probably 100x+ examples of FICO scores being used relative to the occasional VS reference.

VantageScores are widely used in marketing campaigns to target prospective customers for credit card solicitations. VS is a useful low cost tool that can be applied to segment demographics. If I managed rental properties I'd use VS for tenant screening as opposed to Fico.

BTW - VS does have a presence in the rental industry.

I advise everyone to check their VantageScores and learn how changes to your pofile affect ALL your credit scores. Frankly,. there is no reason not to check as the scores are free.

Side note: I vaguely recall a post mentioning VS in a decline letter perhaps 2 to 3 months ago in a MyFico thread.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Anonymous — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 08:51:22 GMT

@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
VantageScores are widely used in marketing campaigns to target prospective customers for credit card solicitations.

Side note: I vaguely recall a post mentioning VS in a decline letter perhaps 2 to 3 months ago in a MyFico thread.

Marketing campaigns to target prospective customers for soliciations is different than lending decisions, so I think it's worth mentioning the distinction here.

It's completely possible that someone received a VS reference in a decline (or approval) letter, but again over that span of 2-3 months how many hundred FICO score mentions have been made relative to that lone VS reference?

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Anonymous — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 10:56:43 GMT

At the very top and bottom of every page on this forum is the slogan ~FICO used in 90% of lending/top lending etc.

So even FICO admits that other scores are used, even if it is only a 1/10 chance.

Someone already said their credit union uses them (Baxter) and I know Carvana uses them. Which btw was the OP’s original question (auto, mortgage etc.). So the statement that no one uses them is incorrect. Is FICO used more frequently and exponential more important.Yes. Can someone ask a Vantage question without the obligatory “I don’t pay attention to them so you should not either”.

I just realized another solution to the OP’s question. Just look at the negative factors listed on your credit report, See if they are accurate. I still think you need to look at your actual report to see what’s driving the score not the other way around. I think you will find your TU & EQ report is different from your EX report and that’s the difference, not necessarily a FICO vs Vantage. There’s something there that you need to get to bottom of imho and not get wrapped up a FICO vs Vantage debate.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

FlaDude — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 14:02:10 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I might be a tad cynical but i have come to believe that sites like Credit Karma offer Vantage type scores in the hopes of getting their site members to get high interest loans and CCs.
Credit Karma was still pushing on me ridiculous cards like Indigo/Gettington etc when i already had a Chase Slate, Citi Double cash and American Express Cash.
Many fall for this scam.
So i think Vantage is not serious in helping people understand credit.

CK will push whatever they make money on, which doesn't mean all of the offers are bad for customers. I've gotten a couple of consolidation loans at around 6% through them.

Re: Vantage vs regular FICO. Chase Credit Card.

Anonymous — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 04:05:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
At the very top and bottom of every page on this forum is the slogan ~FICO used in 90% of lending/top lending etc.
So even FICO admits that other scores are used, even if it is only a 1/10 chance.

Someone already said their credit union uses them (Baxter) and I know Carvana uses them. Which btw was the OP’s original question (auto, mortgage etc.). So the statement that no one uses them is incorrect.

I think that 90% number is extremely conservative. In fact, I'd say that even 99% is conservative. Are there lenders that use VS? Sure, but again, it is extremely rare relative to FICO. I think a best practice would be to generally not worry about Vantage Scores, unless you know that a potential lender actually uses them.