topic Re: FICO8 vs FICO9 in Understanding FICO® Scoring

FICO8 vs FICO9

freedom2 — Tue, 16 Apr 2019 16:58:39 GMT

Good afternoon, all. I'm wondering if anyone finds themselves in a similar situation. My FICO 8 scores aren't superb, but my FICO 9, for both general, and auto, are 100 points lower.
Current FICO 8
Experian...710
TransUnion...748
Equifax...761

Fico 9
All scores hovering between 640 and 665.

Is anyone else noticing a 100+/- point drop with their FICO 9 vs. FICO 8 scores?

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

Re: FICO8 vs FICO9

SouthJamaica — Tue, 16 Apr 2019 17:04:25 GMT

@freedom2 wrote:
Good afternoon, all. I'm wondering if anyone finds themselves in a similar situation. My FICO 8 scores aren't superb, but my FICO 9, for both general, and auto, are 100 points lower.
Current FICO 8
Experian...710
TransUnion...748
Equifax...761

Fico 9
All scores hovering between 640 and 665.

Is anyone else noticing a 100+/- point drop with their FICO 9 vs. FICO 8 scores?

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

Usually my FICO 9's are substantially higher.

If you tell us a little about your profile we might be able to find the culprit(s).

Some of the areas to look at:

-unpaid collections

-rental history

-number of accounts reporting balances

-installment utilization percentage

-revolving utilization percentage

Re: FICO8 vs FICO9

freedom2 — Tue, 16 Apr 2019 17:17:21 GMT

Thank you for replying, South Jamaica.

My aaoa is 14 years.
5 inquiries past 2 years.
Newest cc Novemer 2018.
$50,000 total revolving credit.
$426.00 combined reporting balances on Amex and USAA credit cards only. Rest are all at zero.
No lates reporting, except on my second home mortgage, which resulted from the government shutdown. Since that was in January 2019, that's probably the culprit, as it's very recent. Don't know why that eould effect my auto score, though.
I have a Parent's Plus loan sitting at $120,000 from my son's NYU education. Never, ever late. Payments are $970. per month.
I don't know what else to add. I have many revolving credit cards and 2 AMEX charge cards. Toral owed is $426.00. I let 2 cards report every month, but always PIF.
Any thoughts?

Re: FICO8 vs FICO9

rbentley — Tue, 16 Apr 2019 17:18:14 GMT

I can only add that my FICO 9 is approximately 50 points higher than FICO 8. There must be something in your profile that FICO 9 is particularly acting negative towards.

If you give us more information, particularly concerning any derogatives you might have, that should help members in diagnosing your issue.

Re: FICO8 vs FICO9

thornback — Tue, 16 Apr 2019 17:21:24 GMT

@freedom2 wrote:
Good afternoon, all. I'm wondering if anyone finds themselves in a similar situation. My FICO 8 scores aren't superb, but my FICO 9, for both general, and auto, are 100 points lower.
Current FICO 8
Experian...710
TransUnion...748
Equifax...761

Fico 9
All scores hovering between 640 and 665.

Is anyone else noticing a 100+/- point drop with their FICO 9 vs. FICO 8 scores?

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

I experienced something similar when I still had a major derog on my reports (5+ year old paid charge-off) -- FICO9s were 680-695 while FICO 8s were 760-780. Once that was removed , my FICO9s shot up to above my FICO8s. It appears FICO9 is pretty unforgiving when it comes to major derogatories -- even paid / aged ones -- than FICO 8.

Do you have any major derogs (CO / public record) on your reports?

Re: FICO8 vs FICO9

thornback — Tue, 16 Apr 2019 17:24:33 GMT

@freedom2 wrote:
Thank you for replying, South Jamaica.

My aaoa is 14 years.
5 inquiries past 2 years.
Newest cc Novemer 2018.
$50,000 total revolving credit.
$426.00 combined reporting balances on Amex and USAA credit cards only. Rest are all at zero.
No lates reporting, except on my second home mortgage, which resulted from the government shutdown. Since that was in January 2019, that's probably the culprit, as it's very recent. Don't know why that eould effect my auto score, though.
I have a Parent's Plus loan sitting at $120,000 from my son's NYU education. Never, ever late. Payments are $970. per month.
I don't know what else to add. I have many revolving credit cards and 2 AMEX charge cards. Toral owed is $426.00. I let 2 cards report every month, but always PIF.
Any thoughts?

This very well may be the culprit...

Re: FICO8 vs FICO9

freedom2 — Tue, 16 Apr 2019 17:26:00 GMT

Thanks, Thornback. To answer your question, no, there are no C/Os, liens or derogs on my reports except a 30 day late on my vacation home mortgage. That was just 2 months ago, though, in January. I can't understand it.

Re: FICO8 vs FICO9

thornback — Tue, 16 Apr 2019 17:35:38 GMT

@freedom2 wrote:
Thanks, Thornback. To answer your question, no, there are no C/Os, liens or derogs on my reports except a 30 day late on my vacation home mortgage. That was just 2 months ago, though, in January. I can't understand it.

A single late payment can have a huge negative effect on an otherwise clean report... so I wouldn't be all too surprised to find that FICO9 would penalize you more than FICO8 - especially given how recent it is. As of now, it seems we, unfortunately, do not have enough data points (as gathered by forum members) for FICO9 to determine the ballpark score hit of a late pay -- or at least, I haven't seen much examination done in that regard.

Since the late was due to the Gov. shutdown, have you tried having it removed by Goodwilling your mortage co?

Re: FICO8 vs FICO9

SouthJamaica — Tue, 16 Apr 2019 18:18:44 GMT

@freedom2 wrote:
Thank you for replying, South Jamaica.

My aaoa is 14 years.
5 inquiries past 2 years.
Newest cc Novemer 2018.
$50,000 total revolving credit.
$426.00 combined reporting balances on Amex and USAA credit cards only. Rest are all at zero.
No lates reporting, except on my second home mortgage, which resulted from the government shutdown. Since that was in January 2019, that's probably the culprit, as it's very recent. Don't know why that eould effect my auto score, though.
I have a Parent's Plus loan sitting at $120,000 from my son's NYU education. Never, ever late. Payments are $970. per month.
I don't know what else to add. I have many revolving credit cards and 2 AMEX charge cards. Toral owed is $426.00. I let 2 cards report every month, but always PIF.
Any thoughts?

Nothing which dramatically rings a bell as to the difference between your 8's and your 9's.

My guess would be the large loan, as installment utilization percentage is reputedly given more weight by the 9's than the 8's.

Also your excellent average age of accounts may be less important to FICO 9 than it is to FICO 8.

Re: FICO8 vs FICO9

Thomas_Thumb — Wed, 17 Apr 2019 15:58:12 GMT

@freedom2 wrote:
Good afternoon, all. I'm wondering if anyone finds themselves in a similar situation. My FICO 8 scores aren't superb, but my FICO 9, for both general, and auto, are 100 points lower.
Current FICO 8
Experian...710
TransUnion...748
Equifax...761

Fico 9
All scores hovering between 640 and 665.
Is anyone else noticing a 100+/- point drop with their FICO 9 vs. FICO 8 scores?

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

Generally, the only cause for such a difference would be a derog counting on one model but not the other. Examples are:

a) An under $100 unpaid collection counting against you on Fico 9 but not Fico 8.

b) An over $100 paid collection counting on Fico 8 but not on Fico 9.

c) An AU derog that may impact mortage Ficos but not Fico 8 or Fico 9 (due to AU accounts potentially being ignored on later models).

A recent late cetrainly can drop score 100 points but, it should impact all Fico models in a like manner - perhaps differing +/- 20 points depending on the model.

As SJ mentioned Fico 9 does look at a few things such as rental payments and phone bill payments that are not considered in Fico 8. Therefore, a late layment in one of these areas could cause F9 to drop relative to F8.

Re: FICO8 vs FICO9

Anonymous — Thu, 18 Apr 2019 17:05:06 GMT

That seems to be a trend - but for me it's the opposite. My Fico 9 scores are always higher, sometimes far higher than my Fico 9 scores. At one point there was a 40 point difference between my EX & EQ Fico 8 and Fico 9 scores. I do have a paid collections on my account (which Fico 9 doesn't weigh), so that might make sense. Even now, there is a 20-30 point difference in favor of Fico 9.