topic Re: Credit mix weirdness in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Credit mix weirdness

Remedios — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 15:18:59 GMT

So, on 04/01 my scores were EX 760, TU 759, EQ 775, utilization on revolving accounts 6%

After the loan reported next week, EX had a spasm to 746 -14, TU -3, EQ -5, ending up with

EX 746, TU 756, EQ 770

That's not the weird part.

The weird part was, once cards reported new balances, bringing utilization to rounded 2%, I've gained points on EQ, 4 to be exact, and 2 on TU. EX did not budge.

The weird part is that prior to having an active loan, I could go from 1% to 9% aggregate without a single point change ( I dont exceed 29% on individual cards).

So, in a nutshell, I gained points I didnt previously lost with identical changes.

My utilization in the previous months stayed within same percentage, I did not lose anything for going 1% to 6%, nor did I gain any when paid down to 1% or 2%

That's only FICO 8 classic, I did not pay attention to industry scores, or older neurotic ones.

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Trudy — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 19:37:34 GMT

My guess would be a scorecard change.

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 02:04:16 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
So, on 04/01 my scores were EX 760, TU 759, EQ 775, utilization on revolving accounts 6%
After the loan reported next week, EX had a spasm to 746 -14, TU -3, EQ -5, ending up with
EX 746, TU 756, EQ 770

That's not the weird part.

The weird part was, once cards reported new balances, bringing utilization to rounded 2%, I've gained points on EQ, 4 to be exact, and 2 on TU. EX did not budge.

I gain +3 EQ, +1 TU for dropping to the (0,4]% interval.

But you don't lose the points when going back above 4...that's very weird.

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Remedios — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 02:21:07 GMT

@Anonymous up until maybe a year ago, difference between 3% and anything above but still below 9% was 1 point on EX, other two saw no change.

In this instance, I'm not sure what to attribute a change in how it "looks" at utilization. It's almost as if was scoring overall debt reduction.

I lost no points when I went from 2% to 6%, but after the loan showed up, I gained points I didnt lose as balances started going down.

We can safely ignore aging , as those points returned after cards with balances reported new balances, and because all the points weren't gained all at once.

Number of cards reporting balances stayed the same, 4 out of 14.

No clue, I really dont track them as vigorously as I once did, I just found that change rather odd, because my profile is one of those "I'm stuck, no loss, no gain" probably due to excessive credit seeking, without lengthy period of time between new accounts.

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 02:30:04 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
@Anonymous up until maybe a year ago, difference between 3% and anything above but still below 9% was 1 point on EX, other two saw no change.

I lost no points when I went from 2% to 6%, but after the loan showed up, I gained points I didnt lose as balances started going down.

It could be the presence of a loan. I've always had a closed installment loan reporting - it reported closed the same month my first 2 cards showed up. If you lose points above 4% next time, with the loan on file, we'll know.

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Remedios — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 02:55:44 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Remedios wrote:
@Anonymous up until maybe a year ago, difference between 3% and anything above but still below 9% was 1 point on EX, other two saw no change.

I lost no points when I went from 2% to 6%, but after the loan showed up, I gained points I didnt lose as balances started going down.
It could be the presence of a loan. I've always had a closed installment loan reporting - it reported closed the same month my first 2 cards showed up. If you lose points above 4% next time, with the loan on file, we'll know.

We will find out soon enough. I'm hoping to keep number of the cards reporting the same, dont want to muck results.

If you have no open loans, watch your industry score (auto) drop at exactly two years since it closed. 10 points in my case. They came back now, with brand new loan reporting 🤦‍♀️

This is why I gave up on scoring minutiae, it makes me feel like vodka is the answer to all the questions

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 03:15:51 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
If you have no open loans, watch your industry score (auto) drop at exactly two years since it closed. 10 points in my case. They came back now, with brand new loan reporting 🤦‍♀️

That will be my Christmas present then - it's 8 months away.

This is why I gave up on scoring minutiae, it makes me feel like vodka is the answer to all the questions

Well, I have pondered this question while on my ~~many walks of shame~~ Sunday strolls and I can say without a doubt that the answer is simply....yeah, no.

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Anonymous — Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:43:57 GMT

What is the B/L on the loan? And that’s your only open loan correct? Do you have any closed loans on your file? I’m assuming you do.

I don’t see how it could be a scorecard reassignment because you remained clean thick aged with new new revolvers under 12 months right? Got to have something to do with the loan utilization, would be my hypothesis.

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Remedios — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:50:51 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
What is the B/L on the loan? And that’s your only open loan correct? Do you have any closed loans on your file? I’m assuming you do.

I don’t see how it could be a scorecard reassignment because you remained clean thick aged with new new revolvers under 12 months right? Got to have something to do with the loan utilization, would be my hypothesis.

Loan reported fully utilized, 100%

Several paid off auto loans, two paid mortgages.

Utilization is the usual suspect, but...

I always go from 6%-7% at the beginning of the month, ending up around 1%-2% after 17th. I dont lose (or I should say I didnt) lose points when going from 2% to 6%, and I didnt gain them from dropping back to rounded 1%.

Loan reported, points were lost, but as cards started reporting lower balances, points on EQ and TU started "coming back", except...I didn't lose them in a first place. Loan balance remained the same throughout. I know that saying "overall debt reduction" sounds like science fiction, but I dont know what to attribute gains to.

Here is another interesting tidbit, I just had a card report $7.00. Needless to say, no utilization changes, but I lost one point on TU. I'm going on a limb with "number of cards with balances" except (yes, more except), that also didnt happen before. I could go up to 50% of cards reporting without a change.

With addition of that card reporting, I'm at 3 out of 13 reporting.

Can I please have my old boring profile back!

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Remedios — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:53:23 GMT

Maybe I got sent to "She's hopeless" scorecard, or " Abandon all hope ye who enter here"

Three new accounts in November, one in January. Wasnt my fault, it just happened like that.

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Anonymous — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 02:31:54 GMT

It seems to me the presence of a open loan must alter the other utilization award frameworks. It would make sense because now you have a whole different class of utilization to consider and when you don’t have that and you only have one, that’s all the focus is going to be upon, so it appears that having an open loan can alter the awards/penalties for revolving utilization.

It is known that the presence or lack of a loan does alter profiles that’s why that’s one of the questions I always ask in addition to the scorecard segmentation questions. The effects, as far as I know, have not been completely studied or understood so this may be a hint.

It would be a tremendous service if you would keep us updated on your observations.

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Anonymous — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 02:40:19 GMT

Its not scorecard reassignment. there are many things that affect signal strength of other scoring factors, e.g. the presence of recent inquiries affects your number of accounts with a balance awards/penalties. This could be similar.

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Remedios — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:12:45 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Its not scorecard reassignment. there are many things that affect signal strength of other scoring factors, e.g. the presence of recent inquiries affects your number of accounts with a balance awards/penalties. This could be similar.

Its definitely weighing utilization differently now.

Before, I could get away with murder, it doesnt look like it's going to be like that now.

As far as inquiries, EQ is bare naked, EX has four but only two scorable.

TU...let's just say US Bank owns it. 8 altogether, 6 scorable till mid june, than going to 4 scorable.

We've already covered wall of new account shame.

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Anonymous — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:16:37 GMT

I would be willing to bet it’s weighing differently because now it’s considering two categories of utilization. Nevertheless once the newness of the loan wears off there could be a change as well, but I’m just shooting from the hip I have nothing to base this on no evidence.

Re: Credit mix weirdness

NRB525 — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:27:04 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
So, on 04/01 my scores were EX 760, TU 759, EQ 775, utilization on revolving accounts 6%
After the loan reported next week, EX had a spasm to 746 -14, TU -3, EQ -5, ending up with
EX 746, TU 756, EQ 770

That's not the weird part.

The weird part was, once cards reported new balances, bringing utilization to rounded 2%, I've gained points on EQ, 4 to be exact, and 2 on TU. EX did not budge.
The weird part is that prior to having an active loan, I could go from 1% to 9% aggregate without a single point change ( I dont exceed 29% on individual cards).

So, in a nutshell, I gained points I didnt previously lost with identical changes.
My utilization in the previous months stayed within same percentage, I did not lose anything for going 1% to 6%, nor did I gain any when paid down to 1% or 2%

That's only FICO 8 classic, I did not pay attention to industry scores, or older neurotic ones.

What is "rounded 2%"?

All cards have updated a cycle to get to 2% as seen by the bureaus?

To get to 2% overall utilization, I'd guess you'd end up with some of the cards going to zero reported? Or exact same count of cards with any balance?

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Remedios — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:40:39 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:
@Remedios wrote:
So, on 04/01 my scores were EX 760, TU 759, EQ 775, utilization on revolving accounts 6%
After the loan reported next week, EX had a spasm to 746 -14, TU -3, EQ -5, ending up with
EX 746, TU 756, EQ 770

That's not the weird part.

The weird part was, once cards reported new balances, bringing utilization to rounded 2%, I've gained points on EQ, 4 to be exact, and 2 on TU. EX did not budge.
The weird part is that prior to having an active loan, I could go from 1% to 9% aggregate without a single point change ( I dont exceed 29% on individual cards).

So, in a nutshell, I gained points I didnt previously lost with identical changes.
My utilization in the previous months stayed within same percentage, I did not lose anything for going 1% to 6%, nor did I gain any when paid down to 1% or 2%

That's only FICO 8 classic, I did not pay attention to industry scores, or older neurotic ones.

What is "rounded 2%"?
All cards have updated a cycle to get to 2% as seen by the bureaus?
To get to 2% overall utilization, I'd guess you'd end up with some of the cards going to zero reported? Or exact same count of cards with any balance?

Its rounded to 2%. Its something like 1.7%, so 2% as far as FICO is concerned.

All cards have reported, and current utilization is 2% on revolving accounts.

3 out of 14 reporting a balance, rest are at $0.00.

Cards that were reporting a balance at 6%, are same cards reporting balance now, only lesser amounts, because SUBs have been met.

There was no change in number of cards reporting balances.

These changes are only on TU and EQ. EX did not react to utilization change at all, so it's behaving same way as prior to the loan reporting.

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Remedios — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:45:03 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I would be willing to bet it’s weighing differently because now it’s considering two categories of utilization. Nevertheless once the newness of the loan wears off there could be a change as well, but I’m just shooting from the hip I have nothing to base this on no evidence.

That's kinda what I was thinking, which honestly makes sense

The fact that it's making sense is throwing me off, because it's not counterintuitive. I'm used to counterintuitive and "that's just how it is" when it comes to scoring lol

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Anonymous — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:58:28 GMT

😂😂😂
True.

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Revelate — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:31:34 GMT

Interesting datapoint Remedios, and conversation too Cassie and Birdman.

Apologies I don't have anything insightful to add, mind is still reeling, and I'm thinking my leaving all my scotch back in California might have been the best decision I've made in a while as I'd probably be drunk already this morning.

Re: Credit mix weirdness

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 00:23:12 GMT

Vodka, Scotch, and the "Halloween Scorecard". Great thread.