topic Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Amex and Citi Mastercard

Anonymous — Wed, 02 May 2007 01:20:12 GMT

I really enjoy lurking in this informative board.

I have both an Amex and a Citi Mastercard that I pay in full every month. I noticed that neither card reports a Credit Limit; they only report a High Balance and a Current Balance. So is my utilization ratio based on my High Balance (and not my credit limit)?

Are these cards the culprits behind my low revolving credit (and high utilization?)

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

CreditBob — Wed, 02 May 2007 01:35:04 GMT

Yes, they are the problem. I have been doing the research on this because I am also in the middle of writing a book on credit and fico scores. What you can do is contatc each card company and tell them that they are hurting your score by refusing to report the line of credit to the bureaus. On the AMEX CARD if it is with no preset spending limit then there is nothing that can be done except ask for one of their other cards that do reprot the line of credit. The down fall is that you would most likely be assigned a new account number. Therefore you would be starting over again because it is a brand new account. I know that htese are a pain in the rear but it is the reality.

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

smallfry — Wed, 02 May 2007 01:52:04 GMT

OK so the Capital One card that I have with a 5K limit that I ran to 95% utilization and have now paid off should help me now? Will my new balance of near zero net me a low utilization usage because it will be based on a high credit balance of 4950 or am I dreaming?

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

Anonymous — Wed, 02 May 2007 03:07:37 GMT

Thank you for the quick reply! And here I was thinking I was building credit. The Amex has no preset limit, so it's hopeless. I will call the Citi (American Airlines) Mastercard and see if they will set a limit.

I happened to spend $3,200 one month on that card, so my usual $200 usage doesn't hurt my Utilization ratio too badly.

To the Capital One user, I think I heard of people purposely maxing out the card to set up a low utilization. I'll have to dig through the forum to find that post.

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

fused — Wed, 02 May 2007 03:23:23 GMT

Amnesian:

It is my understanding an AMEX charge card like yours should only help your score and creditworthiness. According to the folks at TU, they held some sort of contest and revealed to the public what a credit report might look like with an accompanying credit score of 850.

Here's the list:

1. numerous "satisfactorily paid" accounts (i.e. card loans, mortgages, student loans, installment loans)

2. 3-4 open revolving credit cards with very low balances, with a least one hard having a cl of 15k and some of which have aged for many years

3. you guessed it a charge card; AMEX, Carte Blanche or Diner's Club

Not sure how CR's or FICO factor in charge cards, but folks who have one are considered to be very creditworthy with score in the high 700's or even 800's.

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

Anonymous — Wed, 02 May 2007 11:57:48 GMT

Thank you for the pointers.

So hopefully it is not my Amex that is counting against my utilization ratio.

TU lists the Amex as an "Open Account" and does not list Credit Limit.

Experian lists it as "Revolving" and "Credit Limit/Original Amount": NA.

The Citi American Express MasterCard is a Revolving Account that does not report Credit Limit. Should I be careful with this card?

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

Tuscani — Wed, 02 May 2007 15:46:38 GMT

Amnesian wrote:
Thank you for the pointers.

So hopefully it is not my Amex that is counting against my utilization ratio.

TU lists the Amex as an "Open Account" and does not list Credit Limit.
Experian lists it as "Revolving" and "Credit Limit/Original Amount": NA.

The Citi American Express MasterCard is a Revolving Account that does not report Credit Limit. Should I be careful with this card?

Yes, or do one of two things?

1. Ask them to report the limit

2. Max it out and pay it off as FICO uses high balance as CL if CL is not specified

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

MercyMe — Sun, 06 May 2007 01:13:12 GMT

Yep. With Capital One, that's the only way to do it, and I would suppose it would work for Am Ex, as well?

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

Anonymous — Sun, 06 May 2007 05:56:02 GMT

It depends. There's nothing absolute about how the high balance is reported. Some companies for instance report the highest balance within the last billing cycle or the like there, etc.

However, there's a bigger problem. A charge card likely reports as an "open" account rather than a revolving one. If a limit isn't reported, the high limit is used instead if it's a revolving account. Generally open accounts are not even looked at as far as utilization.

My initial guess this will not work, but this is only an educated guess. So feel free to give it a try.

Message Edited by okrogius on 05-06-2007 01:56 AM

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

Tuscani — Mon, 07 May 2007 00:28:33 GMT

You could roll the Citi balance onto another Citi card that reports the CL. I recommend the Dividend Platinum Select card. The nice thing is most Citi cards report the CLs. You would think they all would!

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

Anonymous — Mon, 07 May 2007 14:32:42 GMT

CreditBob wrote:
Yes, they are the problem. I have been doing the research on this because I am also in the middle of writing a book on credit and fico scores. What you can do is contatc each card company and tell them that they are hurting your score by refusing to report the line of credit to the bureaus. On the AMEX CARD if it is with no preset spending limit then there is nothing that can be done except ask for one of their other cards that do reprot the line of credit. The down fall is that you would most likely be assigned a new account number. Therefore you would be starting over again because it is a brand new account. I know that htese are a pain in the rear but it is the reality.

If you change your AmEx charge card (no spending limit) to an AmEx credit card which reports CL, you won't be starting over. You will keep your credit history from the charge card.

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

Anonymous — Mon, 07 May 2007 14:35:56 GMT

Message Edited by masdeocho on 05-07-2007 10:35 AM

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

Anonymous — Mon, 07 May 2007 18:58:02 GMT

I didn't know it was possible to rollover a CC. So my account age will remain the same (it was opened in 2005). Will they check my credit, which will ding my score?

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

Anonymous — Mon, 07 May 2007 19:00:41 GMT

amnesian1 wrote:
I didn't know it was possible to rollover a CC. So my account age will remain the same (it was opened in 2005). Will they check my credit, which will ding my score?

Technically it doesn't roll over. You close one account and open a new one, but you're correct, the account age stays the same. They probably will check your credit, but it won't count as an inquiry -- they've got permissible purpose because they are one of your current creditors.

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

Anonymous — Tue, 08 May 2007 19:02:44 GMT

Amnesian,

Any luck asking Citi to report a CL? I just realized I'm having the same problem. No wonder my report was saying high util. when I was only at 18%.

Since Citi doesn't report the CL (which is 2K), I guess any balance on that card will make it look like I'm at infinity util. lol.

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

Anonymous — Tue, 08 May 2007 20:07:50 GMT

No, the balances you put on that card will be weighed against the highest balance you ever reported on that card. So if you routinely spend $500, but one month you spent $1,000, you're at 50% utilization (not good).

I am not even going to try to get Citi to report a CL because:

1) I haven't heard of a single succesful attempt with this particular card.

2) It's an American Airlines World card which I don't use enough to justify it's annual fee.

So I will follow this board's advice and rollover to another Citi card that reports CL

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

Anonymous — Tue, 08 May 2007 20:25:44 GMT

amnesian1 wrote:
No, the balances you put on that card will be weighed against the highest balance you ever reported on that card. So if you routinely spend $500, but one month you spent $1,000, you're at 50% utilization (not good).

I am not even going to try to get Citi to report a CL because:
1) I haven't heard of a single succesful attempt with this particular card.
2) It's an American Airlines World card which I don't use enough to justify it's annual fee.

So I will follow this board's advice and rollover to another Citi card that reports CL

Before you do, make sure you ask them to confirm that you will keep the account age and history on the new card. You don't want some rookie CSR to screw up and open a brand new account with no history and kill off the old one. Also ask them to pull a soft inquiry rather than a hard.

Re: Amex and Citi Mastercard

Anonymous — Wed, 09 May 2007 00:47:47 GMT

I guess I got the shorter end of the stick then. Citi doesn't even report the high balance as the CL for me. Just a blank space next to CL.

Be careful with cancelling/transferring that card. If it's less than a year old I think they hold you liable for any used "bonus" miles you accrued for signing up for the card + companion certificates used + cancellation fees. Read the fine print first.

Message Edited by clarrkkent on 05-08-2007 05:47 PM