topic Re: AZEO Question in Understanding FICO® Scoring

AZEO Question

Charmante — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 18:08:50 GMT

Next month, after all my accounts update on CB's... I'll be going from using 3 revolvers, at a 8%, 8%, 97% usage, to AZEO @ 8%... What kind of increase, on average, might this give? I'm about a 640 now. May I hit 660?

I need a 660+ across board to get my USDA Mortgage!

Re: AZEO Question

ccquest — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 18:15:43 GMT

Definitely possible, I can't say for full AZEO but I can say when I had only one revolver, after letting it post with a balance I got a 25 point boost from 793 to 818 on EX. That was with no new accounts in over two years and no inquiries for nearly two years.

Re: AZEO Question

dragontears — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 18:30:27 GMT

Unsolicited advice warning

have you talked to a lender about your unusual circumstance with your finances? Without having a job of any kind you will not have an easy time with getting financed (money from the parents can't be used as "income" last I knew).

For your question I generally get 10-20 points on my mortgage scores when I do AZEO while my FICO 8 barely move. Please make sure that you are looking at your mortgage scores as they can be VERY different than FICO 8

Re: AZEO Question

Anonymous — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 18:46:04 GMT

@Charmante wrote:
Next month, after all my accounts update on CB's... I'll be going from using 3 revolvers, at a 8%, 8%, 97% usage, to AZEO @ 8%... What kind of increase, on average, might this give? I'm about a 640 now. May I hit 660?

I need a 660+ across board to get my USDA Mortgage!

Quite possibly... the problem is the algorithm is not publically available and everyone's profile is different.

In your scenario, all else being equal I would expect your score to increase for two reasons:
Lower total utilization and AZEO.

What are the limits on the three cards?

What is your total utilization now and what will it be after the updates?

Also next points may be obvious but pointing them out for people doing a drive by from google or wherever:

While the cards reporting lower balances will increase your scores, ( I have not recently researched USDA programs ) the scores that you are interested in in this case may not be the same scoring models that your credit cards provide.

Re: AZEO Question

HeavenOhio — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 18:35:03 GMT

@Charmante wrote:
I need a 660+ across board to get my USDA Mortgage!

Leave a balance of at least $5 but not much more. Make sure that this balance is on a major card rather than a store card.

This should ensure your best possible score. It doesn't take much of a balance for me to lose three points on my Experian 98 scores. The classic score in that family is one of the scores used for mortgages.

Re: AZEO Question

Charmante — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 18:40:11 GMT

How do I see my MORTGAGE Scores? Am I able to...? I've been using my FICO 8's. Didn't realize there's a difference...

Re: AZEO Question

dragontears — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 18:43:36 GMT

@Charmante wrote:
How do I see my MORTGAGE Scores? Am I able to...? I've been using my FICO 8's. Didn't realize there's a difference...

you can get all your scores by buying a one time 3B report here on myFICO or you can get a subscription and get the scores refreshed on a monthly or quarterly basis depending on which subscription you choose

Re: AZEO Question

Charmante — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 18:50:57 GMT

@dragontears So, um, not sure how to word it. Lol I was under the impression that all Revolvers are equal (till joining this forum)... But I had already opened a few Retail Cards... Macy's, Dell, Home Depot, Cap1 WM and CFNA Firestone... I believe that's it... Are retail cards BAD for your credit? Why? Could you break it down for me please...

ALSO -- Should I close them? Which of the 5 are WORST?

Re: AZEO Question

dragontears — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 19:06:08 GMT

@Charmante wrote:
@dragontears So, um, not sure how to word it. Lol I was under the impression that all Revolvers are equal (till joining this forum)... But I had already opened a few Retail Cards... Macy's, Dell, Home Depot, Cap1 WM and CFNA Firestone... I believe that's it... Are retail cards BAD for your credit? Why? Could you break it down for me please...

ALSO -- Should I close them? Which of the 5 are WORST?

Retail cards are reportable bad for insurance based scores. How "bad" is not really known as there is not a way to track this model. The knowledge that they are "bad" comes from the published list of negative reason codes.

FICO scores tend to view them the "same" as regular cards. (There is a small amount of debate on this as people frequently report a small scoring penalty for using a store card as the card when implementing AZEO).

Closing any of them will not help your scores (not even your insurance scores).

Re: AZEO Question

Charmante — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 19:26:24 GMT

That's crazy. You would think paying your Bloomies Card would be the same as paying your AMEX... A payment is a payment. Lol Thanks for the info @dragontears

SIDE QUESTION: One of the roommates I'm building, I have NOT started on yet. Their file is 100% Blank EXCEPT as an AU on One of my cards (to get them a score started)... Should I NOT open them ANY retail cards?

Re: AZEO Question

dragontears — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 19:35:03 GMT

@Charmante wrote:
That's crazy. You would think paying your Bloomies Card would be the same as paying your AMEX... A payment is a payment. Lol Thanks for the info @dragontears

SIDE QUESTION: One of the roommates I'm building, I have NOT started on yet. Their file is 100% Blank EXCEPT as an AU on One of my cards (to get them a score started)... Should I NOT open them ANY retail cards?

Honestly, my view on retail cards is IF having the card saves you money at a store you frequently shop at it is a good card for you. If it doesn't, just get a good secured card as it doesn't "force" you into buying things you don't need just to keep it open.

When I got my first mortgage many years ago, I had one open secured card with a $200 limit and $17 balance and some old open student loans. Generally it is easier if a person has 3 open tradelines (at least 1 credit card) to get a mortgage but it is possible with less.

Re: AZEO Question

dragontears — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 19:46:59 GMT

Also for your friend with an empty file I would suggest talking with @Anonymous she tracked her scores in great detail after getting her very first card.

Re: AZEO Question

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Aug 2020 01:07:04 GMT

@Charmante wrote:
That's crazy. You would think paying your Bloomies Card would be the same as paying your AMEX... A payment is a payment. Lol Thanks for the info @dragontears

SIDE QUESTION: One of the roommates I'm building, I have NOT started on yet. Their file is 100% Blank EXCEPT as an AU on One of my cards (to get them a score started)... Should I NOT open them ANY retail cards?

(Thanks for the tag, @dragontears . )

@Charmante: Here's a set of 13 monthly myFICO 3B reports, starting from the 1st month I got my first 2 cards in December 2018. (Forum link)

If your roommate has patience: HOWTO: Get a +62 point FICO 8 jump on a clean file

I inadvertently discovered how to get a EQ 8 750 & EX 8 748 without ever having a credit card. I was able to start my revolving history with 2 bankcards (credit union and Citi Costco Visa) and a $8,500 total credit limit.

Re: AZEO Question

HeavenOhio — Thu, 20 Aug 2020 02:53:28 GMT

@Charmante wrote:
@dragontears So, um, not sure how to word it. Lol I was under the impression that all Revolvers are equal (till joining this forum)... But I had already opened a few Retail Cards... Macy's, Dell, Home Depot, Cap1 WM and CFNA Firestone... I believe that's it... Are retail cards BAD for your credit? Why? Could you break it down for me please...

ALSO -- Should I close them? Which of the 5 are WORST?

As mentioned, store cards hurt the non-FICO credit scores used by the insurance industry. Co-branded major cards like the LL Bean Mastercard or Macy's AMEX are treated like other major cards.

Store cards are generally treated the same as major cards by FICO. But some have reported that when doing AZEO, leaving one's single positive balance on a retail card may not yield the same points as leaving the balance on a major card. We don't usually see that. But when you're trying to eek out every possible point, you want to dot every i and cross every t.

Re: AZEO Question

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Aug 2020 22:10:48 GMT

Hi @HeavenOhio,

Sorry to high jack this a little, but I had a similar question regarding AZEO. I paid off ALL my credit cards and I am looking to purchase a car after they all finish reporting next week. You mentioned to keep at least a $5 balance... Of all the cards I paid off, on still had an interest drop of $4 and reported that. Will that suffice, or should I charge something small to one of my cards that haven't reported yet?

Re: AZEO Question

ccquest — Thu, 20 Aug 2020 22:25:18 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Hi @HeavenOhio,

Sorry to high jack this a little, but I had a similar question regarding AZEO. I paid off ALL my credit cards and I am looking to purchase a car after they all finish reporting next week. You mentioned to keep at least a $5 balance... Of all the cards I paid off, on still had an interest drop of $4 and reported that. Will that suffice, or should I charge something small to one of my cards that haven't reported yet?

Yes, as long as it shows on the credit report it is good.

Re: AZEO Question

Remedios — Thu, 20 Aug 2020 23:04:17 GMT

As far as OPs question, we would need to know which personality in their household they are talking about.

If this is the one where accounts are new(ish), AZEO won't quite "work" unless they reach one year old at least.

Older scoring models are quite punishing when it comes to new accounts.

If these are aged accounts, 20 points is not beyond realm of possibility, but even that would be dependent on individual profile and presence/absence of negatives.

Re: AZEO Question

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Aug 2020 23:53:38 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
As far as OPs question, we would need to know which personality in their household they are talking about.
If this is the one where accounts are new(ish), AZEO won't quite "work" unless they reach one year old at least.

It works with 2 new accounts, both under a year. My total revolving credit history was 7 months at this point. I got the same results with 1yr 1mo total revolving history.

If someone is only using Experian monitoring they will miss the best 2/3rd's of the movie and think AZEO doesn't do much at any age.

CassieCard 3B Report - Score changes at AZEO

[CRA Comparison / Under 1 year Revolving History, 2 Cards both at 7 months]

MTG(Mortgage), AUT(Auto), and BKC(Bankcard) scores are 5,4,2 from the top.

	8	BC8	AU8	MTG	AUT	BKC	9	BC9	AU9	3
EQ	+19	+24	+19	+5	+5	+8	+22	+23	+23
TU	+14	+22	+15	0	0	0	+27	+27	+27
EX	0	+2	0	+6	+5	+6	+6	+6	+6	0

AoOA 1yr7mo | AAoA 11mo | AoYA/AoYRA/AAoRA 7mo

4% to 1% aggregate change, ($334 to $35), TCL $11K

(4 & 4) to (2 & 0)% on 2 individual cards

(The extra 1yr of age for AoOA is from an SSL that aged to 1 year before I got my first 2 revolving accounts.)

Older scoring models are quite punishing when it comes to new accounts.

Oh is this ever true! Even at AoOA 2yr4mo, AoORA 1yr4mo, with 2 new accounts showing up.