topic Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring in Understanding FICO® Scoring

question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

tacpoly — Mon, 14 Dec 2020 23:08:09 GMT

Once in a while I see a comment about credit limits above $35,000 is excluded from FICO scoring. Could someone explain the working hypothesis on this? Do balances on cards with high credit lines not count?

I have one authorized user card with a lower limit <$35,000 and one charge card. My other 3 credit cards have limits well over $35,000. My FICO8 scores are 850 for all 3 CRAs. My scores fell when 0 cards reported with balance. They also fall when >1 card report a balance. Some CRAs seem to ding me when my AU account has a high individual utilization, but I have no control over that account so can't really pin it down. In case it's relevant, I have a line of credit with no balance, an installment account, and I also have several closed accounts with no balances on my report -- several of those with >35K limits.

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Dec 2020 23:34:57 GMT

The gist of it would be the dollar amounts and % used on huge tradelines won't contribute to your utilization factor of scoring as regular smaller revolving lines of credit usually would

Though it seems dependent on which FICO version and the limit amount.

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/50k-limits-not-part-of-utilization/td-p/5221572

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Dec 2020 01:13:41 GMT

@tacpoly wrote:
Once in a while I see a comment about credit limits above $35,000 is excluded from FICO scoring.

I'm not sure anyone knows the exact numbers, but I think the $35k thing is for some of the older models. The newer ones (say Fico8+) I have heard the cutoff limit estimated to be north of $60k. If I use a card with a $59,900 limit for example as my AZEO card, it "works" just fine on Fico 8. I do not have easy access to older model scores though, so I haven't seen what impact that event has on those scores.

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

SouthJamaica — Tue, 15 Dec 2020 03:08:26 GMT

@tacpoly wrote:
Once in a while I see a comment about credit limits above $35,000 is excluded from FICO scoring. Could someone explain the working hypothesis on this? Do balances on cards with high credit lines not count?

I have one authorized user card with a lower limit <$35,000 and one charge card. My other 3 credit cards have limits well over $35,000. My FICO8 scores are 850 for all 3 CRAs. My scores fell when 0 cards reported with balance. They also fall when >1 card report a balance. Some CRAs seem to ding me when my AU account has a high individual utilization, but I have no control over that account so can't really pin it down. In case it's relevant, I have a line of credit with no balance, an installment account, and I also have several closed accounts with no balances on my report -- several of those with >35K limits.

There is a theory that some of the older scoring models do not count cards with > 35k credit limits for utilization purposes.

I do not know if the theory holds water.

I have never seen any difference between the way my > 35k accounts are treated and my < 35k accounts are treated.

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

tacpoly — Tue, 15 Dec 2020 05:05:47 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@tacpoly wrote:
Once in a while I see a comment about credit limits above $35,000 is excluded from FICO scoring.
I'm not sure anyone knows the exact numbers, but I think the $35k thing is for some of the older models. The newer ones (say Fico8+) I have heard the cutoff limit estimated to be north of $60k. If I use a card with a $59,900 limit for example as my AZEO card, it "works" just fine on Fico 8. I do not have easy access to older model scores though, so I haven't seen what impact that event has on those scores.

Of non-AU cards one is 45k. The other 2 are 75k and higher. I'll have to look more carefully but they all seem to be "visible" on FICO8 with regards to cards with balances.

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:02:35 GMT

@tacpoly wrote:
Of non-AU cards one is 45k. The other 2 are 75k and higher. I'll have to look more carefully but they all seem to be "visible" on FICO8 with regards to cards with balances.

When you say one and other two, are you referring to bureaus? I ask because as I stated earlier I did not see an AZ penalty when doing AZEO on a $59,900 card on any 3B Fico 8 score. But, that's only Fico 8. I have no idea if my other scores were adversely impacted at all.

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

Anonymous — Thu, 17 Dec 2020 10:20:40 GMT

@tacpoly EX2 excludes revolvers with a credit limits over somewhere between 26 and $29,000 and higher. TU4 and EQ5 exclude revolvers with credit limits over $35,000. My understanding is the exclusion is from utilization and that it's just on the mortgage models.

I don't know of any being excluded on version eight or higher.

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

tacpoly — Sat, 19 Dec 2020 07:07:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@tacpoly EX2 excludes revolvers with a credit limits over somewhere between 26 and $29,000 and higher. TU4 and EQ5 exclude revolvers with credit limits over $35,000. My understanding is the exclusion is from utilization and that it's just on the mortgage models.

I don't know of any being excluded on version eight or higher.

@Anonymous interesting. Does this mean that when my mortgage scores are calculated, it doesn't see any of my cards?

@Anonymous I meant CC'es.

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

Anonymous — Sat, 19 Dec 2020 09:12:32 GMT

@tacpoly wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@tacpoly EX2 excludes revolvers with a credit limits over somewhere between 26 and $29,000 and higher. TU4 and EQ5 exclude revolvers with credit limits over $35,000. My understanding is the exclusion is from utilization and that it's just on the mortgage models.

I don't know of any being excluded on version eight or higher.
@Anonymous interesting. Does this mean that when my mortgage scores are calculated, it doesn't see any of my cards?

@Anonymous I meant CC'es.

@tacpoly theoretically the only potential utilization TU4 & EQ5 should still see is on your authorized user card. utilization on the other cards should be hidden.

Is the credit limit low enough for EX2 to see it as well?

remember the mortgage scores don't differentiate between primary and authorized user accounts, so it sees the authorized user account as if it were yours and should be your AZEO card, so you don't get an AZ loss. That AU card is perfect!

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

tacpoly — Sat, 19 Dec 2020 21:10:04 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@tacpoly wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@tacpoly EX2 excludes revolvers with a credit limits over somewhere between 26 and $29,000 and higher. TU4 and EQ5 exclude revolvers with credit limits over $35,000. My understanding is the exclusion is from utilization and that it's just on the mortgage models.

I don't know of any being excluded on version eight or higher.
@Anonymous interesting. Does this mean that when my mortgage scores are calculated, it doesn't see any of my cards?

@Anonymous I meant CC'es.
@tacpoly theoretically the only potential utilization TU4 & EQ5 should still see is on your authorized user card. utilization on the other cards should be hidden.

Is the credit limit low enough for EX2 to see it as well?

remember the mortgage scores don't differentiate between primary and authorized user accounts, so it sees the authorized user account as if it were yours and should be your AZEO card, so you don't get an AZ loss. That AU card is perfect!

@Anonymous This is probably why my mortgage scores are lower (817, 812, 840). The AU card has a 28K limit. DH never asks for CLIs, but I better tell him to decline auto increases as well

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

Anonymous — Sat, 19 Dec 2020 21:24:30 GMT

@tacpoly wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@tacpoly wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@tacpoly EX2 excludes revolvers with a credit limits over somewhere between 26 and $29,000 and higher. TU4 and EQ5 exclude revolvers with credit limits over $35,000. My understanding is the exclusion is from utilization and that it's just on the mortgage models.

I don't know of any being excluded on version eight or higher.
@Anonymous interesting. Does this mean that when my mortgage scores are calculated, it doesn't see any of my cards?

@Anonymous I meant CC'es.
@tacpoly theoretically the only potential utilization TU4 & EQ5 should still see is on your authorized user card. utilization on the other cards should be hidden.

Is the credit limit low enough for EX2 to see it as well?

remember the mortgage scores don't differentiate between primary and authorized user accounts, so it sees the authorized user account as if it were yours and should be your AZEO card, so you don't get an AZ loss. That AU card is perfect!
@Anonymous This is probably why my mortgage scores are lower (817, 812, 840). The AU card has a 28K limit. DH never asks for CLIs, but I better tell him to decline auto increases as well

@tacpoly you're probably exactly right!! is the AU card reporting zero balance?

If so, can he post a small balance and you should see an increase on EQ5 & TU4. You are right in the middle of the area that we don't know and need to narrow down.

You would be doing a tremendous service to the community if you could test that so we can see whether or not EX2 is counting it. That would allow us to further refine the cut off for the EX2 algorithm which is somewhere between $26000 and $29,000, it is believed.

But that could max you at 2 maybe all 3!

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

Anonymous — Sat, 19 Dec 2020 21:27:12 GMT

Well maybe not TU, that would be 27 points, but it would give you a nice increase I think.

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

barca — Sun, 20 Dec 2020 19:57:26 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@tacpoly wrote:
Once in a while I see a comment about credit limits above $35,000 is excluded from FICO scoring.
I'm not sure anyone knows the exact numbers, but I think the $35k thing is for some of the older models. The newer ones (say Fico8+) I have heard the cutoff limit estimated to be north of $60k. If I use a card with a $59,900 limit for example as my AZEO card, it "works" just fine on Fico 8. I do not have easy access to older model scores though, so I haven't seen what impact that event has on those scores.

if the theory of excluding high credit limits were true - then it must be north of 100K

I will normally do AZEO with my BAC cash rewards card with 99.9K

when I reported all zero - I see a score drop of 20 points.

when my balance came back to 7K reported, I got the 20 points back.

This happens for all FICO 8 - EX, TU, EQ

My mortgage remain the same - no change

TU mortgage gained some few points when I reported all zero

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Dec 2020 20:59:49 GMT

Interesting. That would suggest that there really isn't any [reasonable] amount that gets ignored by Fico 8... there could be something up in 6 figures, but if that impacted even .1% of the population I'd be surprised.

My AZEO card next week is shifting from a $30k line to a $59.9k one, so my expectation is that my scores won't change. It's like a $400 balance verses a $250 balance or so, making dollars irrelevant as both are below the proposed first dollar threshold of $500.

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Dec 2020 01:24:50 GMT

As far as I know no cut off has been identified for version eight

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

tacpoly — Tue, 22 Dec 2020 07:24:11 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@tacpoly you're probably exactly right!! is the AU card reporting zero balance?

If so, can he post a small balance and you should see an increase on EQ5 & TU4. You are right in the middle of the area that we don't know and need to narrow down.

You would be doing a tremendous service to the community if you could test that so we can see whether or not EX2 is counting it. That would allow us to further refine the cut off for the EX2 algorithm which is somewhere between $26000 and $29,000, it is believed.

But that could max you at 2 maybe all 3!

@Anonymous The card is in use every month and reports a balance every month. I graphed EX2 scores and AU card balance for the months I have them. I also noted any activity that might have affected the score, including other cards. It sure looks like EX2 responds to the changes in the AU balance. But my data also suggests that EX2 takes charge card balances into scoring consideration -- see the score drop in July. It seems to be insensitive to my other credit cards (CC1 & CC2).

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

Anonymous — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 19:55:49 GMT

@tacpoly wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@tacpoly you're probably exactly right!! is the AU card reporting zero balance?

If so, can he post a small balance and you should see an increase on EQ5 & TU4. You are right in the middle of the area that we don't know and need to narrow down.

You would be doing a tremendous service to the community if you could test that so we can see whether or not EX2 is counting it. That would allow us to further refine the cut off for the EX2 algorithm which is somewhere between $26000 and $29,000, it is believed.

But that could max you at 2 maybe all 3!
@Anonymous The card is in use every month and reports a balance every month. I graphed EX2 scores and AU card balance for the months I have them. I also noted any activity that might have affected the score, including other cards. It sure looks like EX2 responds to the changes in the AU balance. But my data also suggests that EX2 takes charge card balances into scoring consideration -- see the score drop in July. It seems to be insensitive to my other credit cards (CC1 & CC2).

@tacpoly that's great news now we know the cut off for EX2 is over $28,000 but < $29000!!!

Thank you!!

Yes, chargecards have a special utilization on EX2, B/HB, separate from revolvers. The only version in use that accounts for them im aware of, but it won't save you from the AZ loss like the AU! (Cuz its not a revolver.)

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Dec 2020 10:02:19 GMT

@tacpoly Wait, why no score the 2 months w/o AU balance? And Dec was the high CL card, right?

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

tacpoly — Tue, 22 Dec 2020 13:58:27 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@tacpoly Wait, why no score the 2 months w/o AU balance? And Dec was the high CL card, right?

The AU card had a balance. I just didn't get a report during those months. Dec was my next lowest CL, 45k.

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

SouthJamaica — Tue, 22 Dec 2020 18:35:16 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@tacpoly EX2 excludes revolvers with a credit limits over somewhere between 26 and $29,000 and higher. TU4 and EQ5 exclude revolvers with credit limits over $35,000. My understanding is the exclusion is from utilization and that it's just on the mortgage models.

I don't know of any being excluded on version eight or higher.

You may well be right about this @Anonymous . My present situation (see detailed post FICO 8 vs FICO 2)

in which FICO 8 appears to be punishing me for "high revolving balances" while FICO 2 appears not to be, could possibly be indicating that the larger limit accounts -- where the nasty high balances are sitting -- are possibly being disregarded in FICO 2.