topic Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

Iusedtolurk — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 13:17:13 GMT

Checking my credit score today and knowing I was going to cross the below 30% threshold I was eagerly awaiting the results and I know experian updates quicker than everyone else so a little after 6 a.m. I took the peek.

Yes score went up as I expected it would after reading so many posts about aggregate thresholds.

What I didn't expect was how much...............

Dum da dum dumd............

4 Frigging Points

Somehow I thought I would get at least 10 Friggin Points

Things I think about....

It was so easy getting big points when my credit was barely 500.

It was easy when I started with 1 card then 2 cards then 3 cards etc. to get decent points.

It was easy when collections fell off to get good amount of points.

It was easy when inquiries aged to get a few points.

One thing I know the higher you go up in score the steeper the climb and the longer the time (thus the marathon idealogy).

Not making any major moves in the near future so as long as I steadily increase 4 Friggen Points upwards is all good.

Haven't apped for anything in 9 months so my AoYRA will hit 12 months in March (should be good for few more points).

And when I do make a major move in the next year or so I do know:

I will reduce utilization below 10%

Practice AZEO

No new inquiries

I'm proud of my rebuild right now and the knowledge I have obtained I mean who in the world would know Fico has so many different scores and how utilization, number of cards with balances, age of accounts etc affect your scores.

Nuff said

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 15:38:57 GMT

The 29% that you referenced in the thread title, are you referring to overall utilization or utilization on one card?

Can you list out all of your cards with their before/after balances and limits?

Did your number of accounts with a balance change?

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

Iusedtolurk — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 16:50:20 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
The 29% that you referenced in the thread title, are you referring to overall utilization or utilization on one card?

Can you list out all of your cards with their before/after balances and limits?

Did your number of accounts with a balance change?

Aggregate 29%

Here's the stats:

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 17:48:48 GMT

Do you know within which scorecard you currently reside?

On the surface I would say that crossing that 29% threshold would have yielded more points. I would have probably guessed 10-15 or so. I'm curious to see what your scorecard is though. Also your 2 highest balance individual lines you stated haven't updated yet, so maybe having a couple of cards in the 60%-70% range may be hurting you a bit. Perhaps when they report your scores will increase more. Another thing, it looks like you have 12 cards and have non-zero balances reported on all 12. That definitely is holding your scores back some and I'm not sure if the accounts with a balance factor can impact signal strength (slight dilution?) on a utilization shift.

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

SouthJamaica — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 18:22:25 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Do you know within which scorecard you currently reside?

On the surface I would say that crossing that 29% threshold would have yielded more points. I would have probably guessed 10-15 or so. I'm curious to see what your scorecard is though. Also your 2 highest balance individual lines you stated haven't updated yet, so maybe having a couple of cards in the 60%-70% range may be hurting you a bit. Perhaps when they report your scores will increase more. Another thing, it looks like you have 12 cards and have non-zero balances reported on all 12. That definitely is holding your scores back some and I'm not sure if the accounts with a balance factor can impact signal strength (slight dilution?) on a utilization shift.

I on the other hand think that the conventional wisdom we have always been spouting about a 30% aggregate revolving utilization threshold is bunk.

30% utilization is considered b.a.d. in FICO algorithms. 29% is bad, and so is 31%. When one gets down to 6% or so the penalties stop.

In my profile, 30% utilization costs me about 80-90 points in FICO 8.

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 18:31:24 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
In my profile, 30% utilization costs me about 80-90 points in FICO 8.

Wow, really? That's a lot. Do you see that across all 3 of your F8 scores? When crossing that threshold point on aggregate, have you done it without really changing your individual card utilization percentages significantly and/or your number of accounts with balances reported? It would probably be next to impossible to not have either of those other 2 factors at play under most circumstances. Just trying to figure how much of that signifcant change comes from just the aggregate threshold crossing.

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

SouthJamaica — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 18:38:34 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
In my profile, 30% utilization costs me about 80-90 points in FICO 8.

Wow, really? That's a lot. Do you see that across all 3 of your F8 scores? When crossing that threshold point on aggregate, have you done it without really changing your individual card utilization percentages significantly and/or your number of accounts with balances reported? It would probably be next to impossible to not have either of those other 2 factors at play under most circumstances. Just trying to figure how much of that signifcant change comes from just the aggregate threshold crossing.

Yes. Across all 3.

Although I was just speaking from experience, after posting that I tested it on the simulator, reducing my utilization from its present lofty 31% to a more normal 6%. The simulator raised my FICO 8's 85 points, 85 points, and 80 points.

Obviously the other utilization factors do come into play, but so would they with any other person's profile. So I think we should dispel the falsely promulgated notion that under 30% aggregate revolving utilization is just hunky dory. It isn't.

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 19:46:32 GMT

I get you now, you're talking about 2 threshold crossings in 30% to 6%. Originally I misinterpreted your post and thought you were talking 80 points for just crossing 30% (to say 25%).

Have you split the scoring impact up between the two thresholds? I'm curious if one is worth more than the other on your profile or if they're about the same.

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

SouthJamaica — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 20:22:59 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I get you now, you're talking about 2 threshold crossings in 30% to 6%. Originally I misinterpreted your post and thought you were talking 80 points for just crossing 30% (to say 25%).

Have you split the scoring impact up between the two thresholds? I'm curious if one is worth more than the other on your profile or if they're about the same.

No that's not what I'm saying.

I don't consider 30% a threshold.

I don't consider 6% a threshold.

I have never been able to discern even a single "threshold" in aggregate revolving utilization.

As it goes up, scores go down.

As it goes down, scores go up.

Every single whole integer percentage point is a threshold for me.

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

Iusedtolurk — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 20:58:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Do you know within which scorecard you currently reside?

On the surface I would say that crossing that 29% threshold would have yielded more points. I would have probably guessed 10-15 or so. I'm curious to see what your scorecard is though. Also your 2 highest balance individual lines you stated haven't updated yet, so maybe having a couple of cards in the 60%-70% range may be hurting you a bit. Perhaps when they report your scores will increase more. Another thing, it looks like you have 12 cards and have non-zero balances reported on all 12. That definitely is holding your scores back some and I'm not sure if the accounts with a balance factor can impact signal strength (slight dilution?) on a utilization shift.

@Anonymous

I have no inkling what scorecard I'm on I started rebuild a little over 2 years ago added about 200 points across bureaus. I obtained 12 cards within that time with 7 hitting 2 years. 1 hitting 2 years next month and the rest a year or so from then.

(Perhaps with >5 accounts, no derogs, new credit AAoA 1yr 11 months...maybe a thin/clean/not aged scorecard?)

Started with a collection on experian but that's been gone a couple months.

Will start on decreasing the 60 percenters next month down below 50 then month after down below 30. Could be due to the 2 >60% accounts with the non-zero account balances and also what @SouthJamaica was implying about the crossing thesholds being a factor not as big a deal as led to believe. (Profile specific?)

Or it could be that oh so mysterious algorithm that is hidden from total understanding.

Like I stated previously no big deal right now as long as I slowly creep up the score ladder until I find the need to do all the right moves for a major move. It was just that I had hovered over >30% for awhile and envisioned a NICE point boost...at least more than the Friggin 4 points

low point increase.

It'll be another 10 days before I see how it affected my Trans and Eq Fico8.

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 21:32:39 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
Every single whole integer percentage point is a threshold for me.

Interesting. I've heard you say that before with all the single-digit utilization percentages, but never the double-digit ones as well. Do you find the same thing for each percentage point above 30% as well?

Are there others on this forum that have referenced the same thing as you, essentially that there aren't any threshold points for aggregate utilization?

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 21:31:14 GMT

@Iusedtolurk wrote:
@Anonymous
I have no inkling what scorecard I'm on I started rebuild a little over 2 years ago added about 200 points across bureaus. I obtained 12 cards within that time with 7 hitting 2 years. 1 hitting 2 years next month and the rest a year or so from then.
(Perhaps with >5 accounts, no derogs, new credit AAoA 1yr 11 months...maybe a thin/clean/not aged scorecard?)

With your clean file yes, you'd be looking to thick/thin, but you'd want to look at AoYRA for the next factor to determine if you're in the new account scorecard or no new account scorecard.

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

Iusedtolurk — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 23:57:07 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Iusedtolurk wrote:
@Anonymous
I have no inkling what scorecard I'm on I started rebuild a little over 2 years ago added about 200 points across bureaus. I obtained 12 cards within that time with 7 hitting 2 years. 1 hitting 2 years next month and the rest a year or so from then.
(Perhaps with >5 accounts, no derogs, new credit AAoA 1yr 11 months...maybe a thin/clean/not aged scorecard?)

With your clean file yes, you'd be looking to thick/thin, but you'd want to look at AoYRA for the next factor to determine if you're in the new account scorecard or no new account scorecard.

AoYRA (got it March of 2020) so in a couple weeks it will be 10 months.

So Thick/Clean/New account scorecard seems probable. I imagine worth a few more points when it goes to Thick/Clean/No New account scorecard?

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Dec 2020 00:59:25 GMT

@Iusedtolurk wrote:
So Thick/Clean/New account scorecard seems probable. I imagine worth a few more points when it goes to Thick/Clean/No New account scorecard?

More than likely more than a few, so that's good news for you! Typically you'll expect to see around a 20-25 point gain from scorecard reassignment bringing you to clean/thick/no new account. You can anticipate seeing gains around that amount on your F8 scores on March 1st. That's of course assuming that you don't open a new revolver between now and then

Right around that time, March or so, I'm planning on doing the exact opposite of you and sliding from clean/thick/no new account to clean/thick/new account(s) due to adding a couple of CCs. I expect my scores to drop somewhere around 20-25 points, probably a little more since I'll be refinancing a mortgage as well which will bring my 70% installment loan utilization up to 100% once again

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Dec 2020 01:00:13 GMT

I honestly found aggregate util on a dirty score card yielded small gains (which are already small due to the dirty scorecard) except from crossing under 49% aggregate util.

The better gains where when individual cards crossed major thresholds. Aggregate counts for something, but not nearly as much, I felt.

I watched going from maxxed out and now down to 14% on a CC - crossing individual thresholds yeilded more points. This last month, I was unable to cross the major threshold to under 9%. I did go from 88% to 98% (sync reporting - ugh) back down to 88%, 68%, 48%, 28%, and now 14%. I did see points gained for every threshold crossed.

I did see changes when aggregated moved, particularly from 60% to 48%, but not so much for going under 29%.

This is just from my watching a dirty scorecard. I would have to pull all reports and notifications to eek out each change to report here, but this is my overall take. This is with 2 CC (1 bank card and 1 store card) and 1 AU (bank card) in my SOs CRs. The 2 bank cards remained under 5% (mostly 1-2%) util the entire time.

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

SouthJamaica — Fri, 25 Dec 2020 01:27:08 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
Every single whole integer percentage point is a threshold for me.

Interesting. I've heard you say that before with all the single-digit utilization percentages, but never the double-digit ones as well. Do you find the same thing for each percentage point above 30% as well?

Are there others on this forum that have referenced the same thing as you, essentially that there aren't any threshold points for aggregate utilization?

What I meant by that is if I go from 10% to 11% I'll usually lose a few points, and if I go from 11 to 12% I'll lose a few more.

31% is the highest I have ever been. That's where I am now. I do not like being in this neighborhood.

I don't know if there's anyone who agrees with me. There are at least a few people who disagree with me.

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Dec 2020 02:18:05 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
I don't know if there's anyone who agrees with me. There are at least a few people who disagree with me.

I don't really see it as an agree/disagree situation. If it's something you've tested and you've seen those changes with your own eyes on your own profile, there's nothing anyone can really disagree with.

My thing is that it's something that's happened with your file, certainly it has to happen with other similar files (scorecard, etc) so it would be nice to hear the same thing from others to garner more feedback on the subject. Can you think of anything related to your file that stands out as being unique or perhaps uncommon relative to others in your scorecard?

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

SouthJamaica — Fri, 25 Dec 2020 15:41:35 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
I don't know if there's anyone who agrees with me. There are at least a few people who disagree with me.
I don't really see it as an agree/disagree situation. If it's something you've tested and you've seen those changes with your own eyes on your own profile, there's nothing anyone can really disagree with.

My thing is that it's something that's happened with your file, certainly it has to happen with other similar files (scorecard, etc) so it would be nice to hear the same thing from others to garner more feedback on the subject. Can you think of anything related to your file that stands out as being unique or perhaps uncommon relative to others in your scorecard?

Not really. I have higher than average available credit but so do many other of the MyFICOer's.

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Dec 2020 17:35:26 GMT

That could be something worth checking out. I mean, it's got to be something related to the Amounts Owed sector of your file, which credit limits would be part of. I'm curious if others with high limits such as yours have actually looked at individual percentage point shifts and associated score gains, or if they've simply done along with the known thresholds always mentioned. I know you've got a lot of open revolvers, do you have a lot of closed ones too?

Re: Credit Score Went Up After Crossing 29% Threshold

Anonymous — Sun, 27 Dec 2020 07:07:42 GMT

@Iusedtolurk what's the age of your oldest account so we can determine your scorecard your incomplete by one metric.

@Anonymous @SouthJamaica I believe there are aggregate and individual thresholds; however they are progressively worth more usually.

For instance the 10% and 30% are not worth as much as the 50 and 70%, much less than 90%. But this also varies my bureau.

Now in my opinion, in the case of SJ's profile, the reason he sees score changes at almost every single percentage change is simply because of his high credit limits as he admits differentiates him. 1% for him is more than $5000, I believe that he may be crossing balance thresholds and they are causing the small point changes which add up.

This is one way that the algorithm accounts for the amount owed outside of simply looking at percentages. 10% for one person is not 10% for everyone else. JMHO.