topic Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

Ceewin — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 14:02:35 GMT

Our son is just an AU on mine and DH's accounts since 2021. As of today Experian shows:

Here's what's changed (according to Experian):

S/N: His scores has been in the mid to high 700's since 2021. He has one inquiry in January 23 for a Discover card. The account was closed(never used) in February because he did not complete the 4506-T form. I am willing to provide more info, but I can't seem to understand why such a huge point loss and how will he ever get those points back. He will be shopping for an Auto Loan soon and this is a bummer.

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

SouthJamaica — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 14:53:22 GMT

@Ceewin wrote:
Our son is just an AU on mine and DH's accounts since 2021. As of today Experian shows:
Here's what's changed (according to Experian):

S/N: His scores has been in the mid to high 700's since 2021. He has one inquiry in January 23 for a Discover card. The account was closed(never used) in February because he did not complete the 4506-T form. I am willing to provide more info, but I can't seem to understand why such a huge point loss and how will he ever get those points back. He will be shopping for an Auto Loan soon and this is a bummer.

We would need much more information as to his profile.

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

Ceewin — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 15:04:47 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
We would need much more information as to his profile.

Please see below. Would this help? The 3 OPEN accounts are the AU's and the 1 Closed is the Discover.

...but under the KEY FACTORS its saying AAoA is 6 months. There is a discrepancy...

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

Ceewin — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 15:21:07 GMT

FYI...here is his report from June 30, 2023

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

SouthJamaica — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 16:14:10 GMT

@Ceewin wrote:
FYI...here is his report from June 30, 2023

I think you need to see the actual reports to see what's actually in his report. These snapshots are out of whack.

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

Ceewin — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 16:34:34 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
I think you need to see the actual reports to see what's actually in his report. These snapshots are out of whack.

I just pulled his EX report from ACR and the info is identical to what's shown on Experian's website. Can you tell me what I should be looking for or what seems out of whack?

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

GZG — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 16:51:54 GMT

@Ceewin wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
I think you need to see the actual reports to see what's actually in his report. These snapshots are out of whack.

I just pulled his EX report from ACR and the info is identical to what's shown on Experian's website. Can you tell me what I should be looking for or what seems out of whack?

OP doesn't have any accounts of their own anymore once Discover closed, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the reason entirely

are you planning on co-signing their car loan? OP's son could have a 959 credit score and it doesn't really matter because OP doesn't have any current credit that belongs to them showing that they are responsible making payments.

I imagine all of those points come back as soon as OP start's reporting credit that belongs to them and not an AU

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

Anonymalous — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:00:35 GMT

Maybe they stopped counting the AU cards. At the moment, it sounds like his personal credit history is a single closed card with no payment history but 6 months of age. A score in the high 600s would be reasonable for that profile. If his score was previously in the 750s, that was probably due to the age boost from the 3 AU cards.

I had a similarly boosted score, when I first became scorable. My EX FICO 8 started in the 760s, even though I only had 1 personal card that was only 5 months old. My high score was clearly due to an AU card that gave me an average age of about 12 years. I didn't have a single loss quite as precipitous, and it's hard to separate from my various applications, new cards reporting, and changes in the aging metrics, but somewhere in the last couple years, I think Experian (and Equifax) stopped counting my AU card. Under length of credit history, Experian shows my AAoA at just over 1 year, and my AoOA as just over 2 years. If my AU card was included, those numbers would be over 5 and 20 years.

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

SouthJamaica — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:03:06 GMT

@Ceewin wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
I think you need to see the actual reports to see what's actually in his report. These snapshots are out of whack.

I just pulled his EX report from ACR and the info is identical to what's shown on Experian's website. Can you tell me what I should be looking for or what seems out of whack?

I meant you should see if there's anything that's incorrect about its contents. If the report contents are accurate, then that's one possible problem we can check off and eliminate.

If the score was much lower before the Discover card was added, and then dropped to a similar level as before once the Discover card was closed, then @GZG 's explanation might have validity. But I can't see how the average age of accounts would have dropped by a year; that makes no sense to me at all.

If the credit report is accurate, then perhaps you should just wait a day or two and see if the scores provided by the user interface correct themselves. Maybe it was a glitch.

If the scores don't correct themselves, then probably he should open a new card -- and this time keep it open.

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

Ceewin — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:11:58 GMT

@GZG wrote:

OP doesn't have any accounts of their own anymore once Discover closed, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the reason entirely

are you planning on co-signing their car loan? OP's son could have a 959 credit score and it doesn't really matter because OP doesn't have any current credit that belongs to them showing that they are responsible making payments.

I imagine all of those points come back as soon as OP start's reporting credit that belongs to them and not an AU

I'm thinking that is what's happening here, but a loss/penalty of 81 points? I don't understand why so many points. Per his score history, it went from 764 to 757 (FICO 8), when the inquiry and new account hit in Jan/Feb. No score change when the account closed in March.

We were on the fence about co-signing, but I guess this change has made the decision for us. LOL! S/N: Per the simulator, he'll gain appx 45 points if he opens up a new credit card. I know it's not 100% accurate, but now isn't that a kick in the teeth!

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

Anonymalous — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:13:54 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:

If the scores don't correct themselves, then probably he should open a new card -- and this time keep it open.

This as well. @Ceewin, if your son has no negatives, it easy to build positive credit history. Just get a card, don't treat the CL as free money, and never be late with a payment. But it'll take a couple years, and in the meantime he might have to get a cheaper car or get a co-signer. And if he doesn't have a relationship with a credit union, it wouldn't be a bad idea to consider one -- they tend to have better rates than banks much less car dealerships, and they're more willing to work with customers who have been members and used their products for a few years.

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

GZG — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:17:40 GMT

@Ceewin wrote:
@GZG wrote:

OP doesn't have any accounts of their own anymore once Discover closed, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the reason entirely

are you planning on co-signing their car loan? OP's son could have a 959 credit score and it doesn't really matter because OP doesn't have any current credit that belongs to them showing that they are responsible making payments.

I imagine all of those points come back as soon as OP start's reporting credit that belongs to them and not an AU
I'm thinking that is what's happening here, but a loss/penalty of 81 points? I don't understand why so many points. Per his score history, it went from 764 to 757 (FICO 8), when the inquiry and new account hit in Jan/Feb. No score change when the account closed in March. yeah that's really bizzare, I have no idea what caused the point drop.

We were on the fence about co-signing, but I guess this change has made the decision for us. I mean, I'm no auto loan expert, I have no idea what he'll be offered in his name alone, but I do think having him get credit in his name is something he should do, particularly if he wants a car loan solely in his name. a '760' score means nothing if that score is solely generated from AUs. If your report can say 'I've have 2-3 credit cards for a year with perfect payments and always paid on time and in full' that means way more than the number. LOL! S/N: Per the simulator, he'll gain appx 45 points if he opens up a new credit card. I know it's not 100% accurate, but now isn't that a kick in the teeth!

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

Ceewin — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:21:46 GMT

@Anonymalous wrote:
Maybe they stopped counting the AU cards. At the moment, it sounds like his personal credit history is a single closed card with no payment history but 6 months of age. A score in the high 600s would be reasonable for that profile. If his score was previously in the 750s, that was probably due to the age boost from the 3 AU cards.

This explains it as well. AU accounts matter but not really....

Per his score history, it went from 764 to 757 (FICO 8), when the inquiry and new account hit in Jan/Feb. No score change when the account closed in March.

...and due to this, Experian took 6 months to adjust his scores as he is now "scoreable" based on his own credit profile. Makes sense...

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

Anonymalous — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:29:28 GMT

@Ceewin wrote:
@Anonymalous wrote:
Maybe they stopped counting the AU cards. At the moment, it sounds like his personal credit history is a single closed card with no payment history but 6 months of age. A score in the high 600s would be reasonable for that profile. If his score was previously in the 750s, that was probably due to the age boost from the 3 AU cards.

This explains it as well. AU accounts matter but not really....
Per his score history, it went from 764 to 757 (FICO 8), when the inquiry and new account hit in Jan/Feb. No score change when the account closed in March.
...and due to this, Experian took 6 months to adjust his scores as he is now "scoreable" based on his own credit profile. Makes sense...

He only lost 7 points when a new card reported? I lost almost 50 points, when my second personal card reported. I originally thought it was due to age, but now I wonder if it was my AU card no longer being scored. This was also roughly when I first would have beecome scoreable on my own (6 months).

Though it would be really odd if they stopped counting AUs when a profile became scoreable on its own. People with no personal credit history but with AU cards would have great scores, which would plummet once they start developing their own credit history. Probably has more to do with fraud detection or something else.

Incidentally, I dug into Experians' How Lenders See You, and it lists my average age as over 5 years, and my oldest account as almost 25 years. So my aging metrics are reported in completely different ways in different areas, as well.

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

Ceewin — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:30:35 GMT

@Anonymalous wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:

If the scores don't correct themselves, then probably he should open a new card -- and this time keep it open.

This as well. @Ceewin, if your son has no negatives, it easy to build positive credit history. Just get a card, don't treat the CL as free money, and never be late with a payment. But it'll take a couple years, and in the meantime he might have to get a cheaper car or get a co-signer. And if he doesn't have a relationship with a credit union, it wouldn't be a bad idea to consider one -- they tend to have better rates than banks much less car dealerships, and they're more willing to work with customers who have been members and used their products for a few years.

No negatives and we've all been members of the same local CU for years and that's who we were going to use. Luckily, we have time to purchase as there is no dire need. In hindsight, he should have just gotten a CC from our CU.

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

Ceewin — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:46:13 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Ceewin wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
I think you need to see the actual reports to see what's actually in his report. These snapshots are out of whack.

I just pulled his EX report from ACR and the info is identical to what's shown on Experian's website. Can you tell me what I should be looking for or what seems out of whack?
I meant you should see if there's anything that's incorrect about its contents. If the report contents are accurate, then that's one possible problem we can check off and eliminate.

If the score was much lower before the Discover card was added, and then dropped to a similar level as before once the Discover card was closed, then @GZG 's explanation might have validity. But I can't see how the average age of accounts would have dropped by a year; that makes no sense to me at all.

If the credit report is accurate, then perhaps you should just wait a day or two and see if the scores provided by the user interface correct themselves. Maybe it was a glitch.

If the scores don't correct themselves, then probably he should open a new card -- and this time keep it open.

All of the information is accurate. I think the consensus is:

Based on his own profile: AAoA 6 months = EX FICO 8: 676

Based on his overall profile: AAoA 1yr 5 months

Since there was very minimal effect to his scores when his own card was open then closed, we had no reason to believe it would be heavily adjusted 6 months later. This is painful. I'm thankful there isn't an immediate need for a higher credit score but it is well past time for him to have his own cc.

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

AndySoCal — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 13:34:36 GMT

@CeewinAre all three open accounts actively being used? By actively being used I mean at least once in the last six months.

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

Ceewin — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 13:41:32 GMT

@AndySoCal wrote:
@CeewinAre all three open accounts actively being used? By actively being used I mean at least once in the last six months.

Yes. Except for one reporting period (summer 2022) one of the three AU accounts reports at least a $5 balance every month.

Re: Please explain -81 Points on Experian?

AndySoCal — Sun, 09 Jul 2023 00:49:52 GMT

@CeewinIf you subtract the 3 AU accounts from the credit report your son does not have any accounts on his credit report and would not have a score. In January your son applied for a Discover credit card and recieved a Discover credit card whch is now closed. Your son with that credit card (only no au accounts) would have a score in June or July of this year. Per FICO score scoring criteria. The score factors showing six months is for the Discover card only. It is the only account that is his ( Non AU accounts). The FICO score 676 is the Discover credit card plus whatever help the AU accounts might provide. The change is the Discover card was not scoreable due to not meeting the FICO score criteria. Now that it is scoreable the FICO scorecard is different and the score has changed to reflect your sons account + AU accounts. I would suggest a secure credit card from your bank or credit union in you sons name.

Edited to add: Another factor in the score being lower is the new account and inquiry