topic Re: Attempting to isolate CFA point loss. in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Attempting to isolate CFA point loss.

Beefy1212 — Fri, 29 Sep 2023 22:08:20 GMT

Nov 2021 I [s]accidentally[/s] “didn’t know better” opened a CFA account.

The account only reports to Experian and only Experian has the CFA reason statement.

Looking at my scores and reports I estimate a single CFA account is roughly a 19-20 point loss.

All three CRA currently have the same balance reported and age of account metrics.

Scores are as follows:

EQ 1 inquiry
TU 3
EX 2

EQ vs TU is 11 points this can be chalked up as the effect 2 inquiries.

Ex vs TU has a 14 point spread with one less HP.

If you count the inquiry as a 5ish point loss/gain that means 14+5-6(1 additional inquiry) means the CFA is suppressing my ex score 19-20 points.

This would be on a young/thick/new revolver scorecard unless a CFA forces scorecard reassignment. At which point my musings are meaningless.

Does anyone have any relevant data points to confirm this? Also possibly the effect of 2-3+ CFA accounts?

Re: Attempting to isolate CFA point loss.

JoeRockhead — Fri, 29 Sep 2023 22:30:34 GMT

From what I understand, and have seen is CFAs tend to be scored more harshly because they are generally associated, or get classified as products for borrowers in a higher risk tier.

Re: Attempting to isolate CFA point loss.

Beefy1212 — Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:03:44 GMT

@JoeRockhead wrote:
From what I understand, and have seen is CFAs tend to be scored more harshly because they are generally associated, or get classified as products for borrowers in a higher risk tier.

Well Duh the reason statement description alone will tell you that... I am trying to get a consensus on what that penalty is.

The CRA designation as a whole is pretty unfair, I wonder how many stellar profiles are marked high risk simply because they took a better apr deal on a car or bought a mattress on credit because of some random deal.

The fact it stays there for 10 years as well is just pouring salt on the wound. I mean you bought a 100 dollar item on a zero apr deal 8 years ago somehow that makes makes you high risk still? That is just silly.

Re: Attempting to isolate CFA point loss.

JoeRockhead — Sat, 30 Sep 2023 00:07:02 GMT

It is unfair, I don't know that whole profiles are marked as high risk as much as those products have more of a sting.

I think the whole classification should be eliminated to where a loan is a loan and a revolving account is what it is.

Until then, if I care that much about it, I guess I'd need to be more selective of who I sign up with.

Re: Attempting to isolate CFA point loss.

Zoostation1 — Sat, 30 Sep 2023 00:46:03 GMT

@JoeRockheadI agree with getting rid of the classification 100%. It's unecessarily muddy.

Re: Attempting to isolate CFA point loss.

SouthJamaica — Sat, 30 Sep 2023 03:49:31 GMT

@Beefy1212 wrote:
Nov 2021 I [s]accidentally[/s] “didn’t know better” opened a CFA account.
The account only reports to Experian and only Experian has the CFA reason statement.
Looking at my scores and reports I estimate a single CFA account is roughly a 19-20 point loss.
All three CRA currently have the same balance reported and age of account metrics.
Scores are as follows:

EQ 1 inquiry
TU 3
EX 2

EQ vs TU is 11 points this can be chalked up as the effect 2 inquiries.
Ex vs TU has a 14 point spread with one less HP.
If you count the inquiry as a 5ish point loss/gain that means 14+5-6(1 additional inquiry) means the CFA is suppressing my ex score 19-20 points.

This would be on a young/thick/new revolver scorecard unless a CFA forces scorecard reassignment. At which point my musings are meaningless.

Does anyone have any relevant data points to confirm this? Also possibly the effect of 2-3+ CFA accounts?

I have no personal experience with it, but from everything I've seen in this forum I don't think the hit is as high as 19 or 20 points. I think it's much less.

Re: Attempting to isolate CFA point loss.

Beefy1212 — Sat, 30 Sep 2023 09:35:31 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Beefy1212 wrote:
Nov 2021 I [s]accidentally[/s] “didn’t know better” opened a CFA account.
The account only reports to Experian and only Experian has the CFA reason statement.
Looking at my scores and reports I estimate a single CFA account is roughly a 19-20 point loss.
All three CRA currently have the same balance reported and age of account metrics.
Scores are as follows:

EQ 1 inquiry
TU 3
EX 2

EQ vs TU is 11 points this can be chalked up as the effect 2 inquiries.
Ex vs TU has a 14 point spread with one less HP.
If you count the inquiry as a 5ish point loss/gain that means 14+5-6(1 additional inquiry) means the CFA is suppressing my ex score 19-20 points.

This would be on a young/thick/new revolver scorecard unless a CFA forces scorecard reassignment. At which point my musings are meaningless.

Does anyone have any relevant data points to confirm this? Also possibly the effect of 2-3+ CFA accounts?

I have no personal experience with it, but from everything I've seen in this forum I don't think the hit is as high as 19 or 20 points. I think it's much less.

So did I and yet a difference of 1 hp and 1 CFA everything else uti, account age, etc are the same so what caused a 24 point difference?

Scorecard? Even with the additional account being older than my average accounts age it could be part of it but it doesn't appear to be enough to shift my average age of accounts...

Those points went somewhere?

Ultimately my scores are still in the same credit rating, and ex even exceeds TU on some models so the effect isn't the end of the world just me pondering just how big a difference it really makes, as I consider buying a new vehicle and going with FMC that people have stated codes as a CFA. In the end I am going to pick 1.9% over the likely 6plus regardless of how it codes. My fico is less important than saving 4% on a 60k plus truck.

Re: Attempting to isolate CFA point loss.

AzCreditGuy — Sat, 30 Sep 2023 15:35:34 GMT

Fico is a dinosaur, I find it a joke that they are introducing Fico 9 and now Fico 10 with no updates to the CFA code.

My ding came from a Sofi loan that was 10% and had terms of 4 yrs and I paid that off in 2 yrs

Maybe in my statement I should put down my thought how corrupt the system is to show the loan as a CFA

PS its all the Banks that are forced the CFA code on us, when we don’t go that way. With so many new avenues with lending these days, we shouldn’t be punished for taking out a loan with a nontraditional lender

Re: Attempting to isolate CFA point loss.

Beefy1212 — Sat, 28 Oct 2023 00:41:38 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Beefy1212 wrote:
Nov 2021 I [s]accidentally[/s] “didn’t know better” opened a CFA account.
The account only reports to Experian and only Experian has the CFA reason statement.
Looking at my scores and reports I estimate a single CFA account is roughly a 19-20 point loss.
All three CRA currently have the same balance reported and age of account metrics.
Scores are as follows:

EQ 1 inquiry
TU 3
EX 2

EQ vs TU is 11 points this can be chalked up as the effect 2 inquiries.
Ex vs TU has a 14 point spread with one less HP.
If you count the inquiry as a 5ish point loss/gain that means 14+5-6(1 additional inquiry) means the CFA is suppressing my ex score 19-20 points.

This would be on a young/thick/new revolver scorecard unless a CFA forces scorecard reassignment. At which point my musings are meaningless.

Does anyone have any relevant data points to confirm this? Also possibly the effect of 2-3+ CFA accounts?

I have no personal experience with it, but from everything I've seen in this forum I don't think the hit is as high as 19 or 20 points. I think it's much less.

@SouthJamaica I had one HP become unscorable on my TU report meaning EX and TU now have identical uti, cards with balances, age of credit the point difference is exactly 19 points. While it is true TU and EX could score slightly differently I think it is reasonable to assume a CFA is 19 points or pretty **bleep** close to it.

Re: Attempting to isolate CFA point loss.

SouthJamaica — Sat, 28 Oct 2023 03:29:58 GMT

@Beefy1212 wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Beefy1212 wrote:
Nov 2021 I [s]accidentally[/s] “didn’t know better” opened a CFA account.
The account only reports to Experian and only Experian has the CFA reason statement.
Looking at my scores and reports I estimate a single CFA account is roughly a 19-20 point loss.
All three CRA currently have the same balance reported and age of account metrics.
Scores are as follows:

EQ 1 inquiry
TU 3
EX 2

EQ vs TU is 11 points this can be chalked up as the effect 2 inquiries.
Ex vs TU has a 14 point spread with one less HP.
If you count the inquiry as a 5ish point loss/gain that means 14+5-6(1 additional inquiry) means the CFA is suppressing my ex score 19-20 points.

This would be on a young/thick/new revolver scorecard unless a CFA forces scorecard reassignment. At which point my musings are meaningless.

Does anyone have any relevant data points to confirm this? Also possibly the effect of 2-3+ CFA accounts?

I have no personal experience with it, but from everything I've seen in this forum I don't think the hit is as high as 19 or 20 points. I think it's much less.
@SouthJamaica I had one HP become unscorable on my TU report meaning EX and TU now have identical uti, cards with balances, age of credit the point difference is exactly 19 points. While it is true TU and EX could score slightly differently I think it is reasonable to assume a CFA is 19 points or pretty **bleep** close to it.

My TU and EX scores are invariably around 20 points apart from each other.

Re: Attempting to isolate CFA point loss.

Thomas_Thumb — Sat, 28 Oct 2023 16:36:34 GMT

^ Yes - a 10 to 15 point difference between CRAs is rather common on Fico 8 and Fico 9 even in cases where the account data is identical. After all, the Fico algorithms are customized to each CRA.

Older Fico models such as Fico 04 and Fico 98 accomodated higher levels of customization. As a result, scores among CRAs with identical profile data could vary by 50 to 60 points. I saw a +50 point difference between EQ and TU/EX when all my cards reported balances. EQ score was lower than the others.