topic Re: 65 point drop with no new info in Understanding FICO® Scoring

65 point drop with no new info

2ball — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 01:30:49 GMT

My sons credit score dropped 65 points from 756 to 691 since last month. He had 3 credit cards listed. Two in his name that have $75 balance and a $150 balance. He also is listed on one of my cards that has a $1800 balance. All the cards get paid every month. My cards always have balance between $1500 and $3500 or so. I use them for everything and pay them off every month.

The only thing new on his credit report from the previous months is that they listed the house he is renting.

My card has a credit limit of 22K. I have had that card for at least 15 years.

His two credit cards Amex platinum claims to have no set limit and the gold is at 30K.

He had had the Amex cards for about a year and the other for 3 months.

He has no loans, no other credit cards, never missed a payment and has not hard inquiries.

Could the new address make his score go down? Especially if it does not match the address on hi band accounts?

Is him having my card hurting him? He has not used it in years.

Why did his score drop?

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

SouthJamaica — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 04:59:32 GMT

@2ball wrote:
My sons credit score dropped 65 points from 756 to 691 since last month. He had 3 credit cards listed. Two in his name that have $75 balance and a $150 balance. He also is listed on one of my cards that has a $1800 balance. All the cards get paid every month. My cards always have balance between $1500 and $3500 or so. I use them for everything and pay them off every month.
The only thing new on his credit report from the previous months is that they listed the house he is renting.
My card has a credit limit of 22K. I have had that card for at least 15 years.
His two credit cards Amex platinum claims to have no set limit and the gold is at 30K.
He had had the Amex cards for about a year and the other for 3 months.
He has no loans, no other credit cards, never missed a payment and has not hard inquiries.

Could the new address make his score go down? Especially if it does not match the address on hi band accounts?
Is him having my card hurting him? He has not used it in years.
Why did his score drop?

Sounds like a Vantage score, not a FICO score. Nothing you've mentioned would cause a FICO score to drop.

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

2ball — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 21:43:58 GMT

He was notified through the credit moniterting system the Amex gives him for free.

I will have to double check if he also got his score directly through one of the 3 credit companies.

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

RBD22 — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 21:44:04 GMT

To expand on @SouthJamaica's question, where did you get that score from, OP? If it's from Credit Karma, then you're referencing a Vantagescore, which basically isn't used by any lender. FICO scores are the only ones that you should ever worry about.

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

2ball — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 21:52:08 GMT

The score came from the credit monitoring product that Amex gives for free for having a Platinum account. it looks like its a scaled down version of CreditSecure.

from the web site

FICO® Score 8 2

CreditSecure will automatically generate your 3-Bureau FICO® Score 8 once per month. Your Experian FICO® Score 8 will be available up to an additional 3 times per month.

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

2ball — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 21:55:47 GMT

He is an authorized user on my Discover. Last month I had a $4000 bill on a 22K limit.

that is a 22% credit utilization on one card. Could that have made the fico score drop 65 points?

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

SouthJamaica — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 21:58:45 GMT

@2ball wrote:
He is an authorized user on my Discover. Last month I had a $4000 bill on a 22K limit.
that is a 22% credit utilization on one card. Could that have made the fico score drop 65 points?

No. That probably wouldn't have dropped it more than a few points.

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

Thomas_Thumb — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 04:43:48 GMT

I thought AMEX had gone from EX Fico 8 to TU VS3 and last month decided to go back to EX Fico (8?). This, from other threads on MyFico. If so, a change in scoring model could certainly shift score +/- 50 points.

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

Zoostation1 — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 03:31:13 GMT

@Thomas_ThumbAs part of "My Credit Guide" Amex previously provided a TU report and a TU VS3.0 score that updated as changes to your reprot happened. They also provided a monthly EX8 score update that you could find separately. That's all changed now annd the "My Credit Guide" product gives you an EX8 score and EX report that updates as your report changes. Mine just updated today to show the new balance on my BCP (statement closed 2 days ago so seems reasonable)..

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

Junejer — Sat, 25 Nov 2023 19:20:38 GMT

@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
I thought AMEX had gone from EX Fico 8 to TU VS3 and last month decided to go back to EX Fico (8?). This, from other threads on MyFico. If so, a change in scoring model could certainly shift score +/- 50 points.

He would be able to see the history from his EX F8 on AmEx back to when the change was made in September. So, there shouldn't be any confusion between the different models.

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

2ball — Sat, 25 Nov 2023 21:17:33 GMT

It does not seem to be a tu vs3 issue. The screen I am looking at says Experian Score history and there is a graph that starts on September 17th where the score is at 756, then it stayed at 756 on October 28th then it dropped on November 19th to 691. All of the information seems to be from the Experian's fico score.

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

SouthJamaica — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 05:22:52 GMT

@2ball wrote:
It does not seem to be a tu vs3 issue. The screen I am looking at says Experian Score history and there is a graph that starts on September 17th where the score is at 756, then it stayed at 756 on October 28th then it dropped on November 19th to 691. All of the information seems to be from the Experian's fico score.

If you really have no idea why your EX FICO 8 score dropped from 756 to 691, you owe it to yourself to pull an Experian credit report and make sure it's being reported correctly.

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

2ball — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 21:42:12 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
@2ball wrote:
It does not seem to be a tu vs3 issue. The screen I am looking at says Experian Score history and there is a graph that starts on September 17th where the score is at 756, then it stayed at 756 on October 28th then it dropped on November 19th to 691. All of the information seems to be from the Experian's fico score.
If you really have no idea why your EX FICO 8 score dropped from 756 to 691, you owe it to yourself to pull an Experian credit report and make sure it's being reported correctly.

There is no new information in my credit report from annualcreditreport.com.

It does not give me an actual score and the information is exactly the same as the AMEX product. outstanding balances on 3 cards around 2100 on a 70K or so limit.

1 hard inquiry from when the 2nd Amex was apllied for a few months ago.

no missed payments or any other dings.

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

SouthJamaica — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 03:56:15 GMT

@2ball wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@2ball wrote:
It does not seem to be a tu vs3 issue. The screen I am looking at says Experian Score history and there is a graph that starts on September 17th where the score is at 756, then it stayed at 756 on October 28th then it dropped on November 19th to 691. All of the information seems to be from the Experian's fico score.
If you really have no idea why your EX FICO 8 score dropped from 756 to 691, you owe it to yourself to pull an Experian credit report and make sure it's being reported correctly.
There is no new information in my credit report from annualcreditreport.com.
It does not give me an actual score and the information is exactly the same as the AMEX product. outstanding balances on 3 cards around 2100 on a 70K or so limit.
1 hard inquiry from when the 2nd Amex was apllied for a few months ago.
no missed payments or any other dings.

Are you talking about your score or your son's score? I'm getting confused.

My understanding was that your son has 2 Amex charge cards and a Discover AU card, and no other cards. And that the score drop was with his Experian score. Is that correct?

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

2ball — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 04:30:22 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
@2ball wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:

My understanding was that your son has 2 Amex charge cards and a Discover AU card, and no other cards. And that the score drop was with his Experian score. Is that correct?

All of the informtion is about my son. Correct he has 2 Amex cards in his name. He is an AU on my Discover, that I have had for many years (20-30). 1 AMEX card is about a year old and 1 AMEX card is about 3 or 4 months old. Both have low balances. He has no loans, no missed payments and no inquiry's other then the one amex did when he got the second Amex card. The score drop was on his Experian Score as reported by his Amex credit monterning program.

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

SouthJamaica — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 20:56:53 GMT

@2ball wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@2ball wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:

My understanding was that your son has 2 Amex charge cards and a Discover AU card, and no other cards. And that the score drop was with his Experian score. Is that correct?
All of the informtion is about my son. Correct he has 2 Amex cards in his name. He is an AU on my Discover, that I have had for many years (20-30). 1 AMEX card is about a year old and 1 AMEX card is about 3 or 4 months old. Both have low balances. He has no loans, no missed payments and no inquiry's other then the one amex did when he got the second Amex card. The score drop was on his Experian Score as reported by his Amex credit monterning program.

I thought the Amex cards were charge cards. It that is the case, why would he have a balance?

I'm going to bow out of this thread. It's not making any sense to me. Maybe someone else can be more helpful.

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

2ball — Tue, 28 Nov 2023 01:19:50 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
@2ball wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@2ball wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:

I thought the Amex cards were charge cards. It that is the case, why would he have a balance?

The balance is how much is owed at this second. You have until the end of the billing cycle to pay the balance. The balance shows up on the AMEX credit report. Both Amex cards are charge cards, but apparently both have a mechanism to carry over a balance.

He seems to be stuck. AMEX says they just relay information from experian. experian doesn't show the the credit score on their credit report, so there is no information to appeal.

Is there anything to do except take the 65 point drop and hope it goes up next month?

Do charge cards count toward your available credit?

If no, then could the explanation for the 65 point drop be the discover card if it had 25-30% credit utilization?

and then will his score go back up the next week when the credit utilization is back down to 9-15%?

Are the charge cards hurting him? Does he need to get a couple credit cards to improve his credit?

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

Zoostation1 — Tue, 28 Nov 2023 05:32:39 GMT

@2ballIn nearly all FICO models, with the exception of Experian FICO 2 (FICO 98), charge cards don't count towards available credit and utilization percentages, they only count towards accounts with balances. (if you have 3 Nothing wrong with having the charge cards, but when they just have 2 charge cards of their own and are an AU on a regular credit card I think that would make them more susceptible to large fluctuations in score month to month based on what your Discover balance is, and maybe even more so in a younger file. I think it would be beneficial to add a regular revolver (even two) in addition to the charge cards. Additionally - not related to scoring but would be good for one card to be with a different lender and on a different network just to not have all eggs in one basket in the event any issue comes up with that Amex (not suggesting it will), he's at a place that doesn't accept it, or the network has an outage. @SouthJamaica may have more to add and/or other suggestions.

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

SouthJamaica — Tue, 28 Nov 2023 17:41:40 GMT

@Zoostation1 wrote:
@... @SouthJamaica may have more to add and/or other suggestions.

Thanks but no, I've bowed out of this thread; after all the back and forth I still don't know what the facts are.

Re: 65 point drop with no new info

2ball — Wed, 29 Nov 2023 00:14:02 GMT

@Zoostation1 wrote:
@2ballIn nearly all FICO models, with the exception of Experian FICO 2 (FICO 98), charge cards don't count towards available credit and utilization percentages, they only count towards accounts with balances. (if you have 3 Nothing wrong with having the charge cards, but when they just have 2 charge cards of their own and are an AU on a regular credit card I think that would make them more susceptible to large fluctuations in score month to month based on what your Discover balance is, and maybe even more so in a younger file. I think it would be beneficial to add a regular revolver (even two) in addition to the charge cards. Additionally - not related to scoring but would be good for one card to be with a different lender and on a different network just to not have all eggs in one basket in the event any issue comes up with that Amex (not suggesting it will), he's at a place that doesn't accept it, or the network has an outage. @SouthJamaica may have more to add and/or other suggestions.

Zoostation, thanks for helping me figure this out!! especially when others bowed out!

We now have a direction to go to fix this issue. I appreciate your help on this.

a couple more questions.

If I pay off my discover (son is an AU on it) and start using other credit cards, will my sons credit score immediately go back up? Will he have a higher credit score when they check (do an inquiry) when he applies for a credit card? or should he wait a little while to get a credit card?