topic Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico…. in Understanding FICO® Scoring

ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

Apexcrest123 — Fri, 24 May 2024 01:42:41 GMT

Hey guys....

so basically i opened up 6 accounts in the lastt 6 months, all credit cards. The only one that has a balance is the Authorized user capital one account i have with my wife. Its strange because on my experian report it says all zeros besides that account because i pay in full. But somewhere i read that AU accounts dont count for this. And you guys have told me consistently to leave around a ten dollar balance. Well somehow, my amazon store card reported a4 dollar balance and my account went from 721 fico to 735 overnight! So its true, authroized user accounts dont factor into the equation of utilization, so why do they even put that on my experian report that i have an 11 percent balance from my Au account? Maybe its just a metric to help you do your own financial statistics.

also, very important question. Why does transunion report a different score, 680. Do card companies like capital one and such use fico 8 scoring? Or a mix of fico 8 and vantage 3.0?

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

FlaDude — Fri, 24 May 2024 02:56:16 GMT

@Apexcrest123 wrote:
also, very important question. Why does transunion report a different score, 680. Do card companies like capital one and such use fico 8 scoring? Or a mix of fico 8 and vantage 3.0?

From years of reading here, I've never heard of a CC company using Vantage 3.0. CK and similar sites display that score because it is cheaper for them than FICO scores would be. Synchony does use Vantage 4.0 so Vantage is getting a foot in the door there. I think most CC companies use FICO 8, but there are actually 3 flavors: standard, one specifically for auto loans, and one specifically for credit cards. And of course there are three credit bureaus so the scores can vary for each. If TU is way different than EQ or EX, you should get your (free) full reports from www.annualcreditreport.com and compare to see if different info is reported, and if any of it is incorrect, work to get it corrected. I think some lenders are using the newer FICO 9 in place of 8, FICO 9 also has three flavors.

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

Apexcrest123 — Fri, 24 May 2024 03:12:58 GMT

I dont have anything different on my reports except equifax reports only 2 inquiries while trnsunion and EX report 3. They should be a bit similar i would guess, i have no idea as to why the scores are so far apart.

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

FicoMike0 — Fri, 24 May 2024 03:19:15 GMT

You've just seen the all zero penalty removed. 14 points for you. I don't know about au accounts, I think they may help with age metrics.

You mention experience report. Are you getting your fico score from the experience app free score? If so, that's your ex fico8 score. I'm guessing you're also getting a free score from the transition app. That's your tu vantagescore3.

There are 3 credit bureaus, experian, transunion and equifax. Each maintains a report on you. Then, there are score models. The two brands are fico and vantagescore. The most common versions are fico8 and vs3. So, multiplying two versions by three bureaus gives six scores. Now, to complicate things, there is also a vs4 version and a total of 28 fico versions amount the three bureaus.

As to capone, they are infamous for using all three bureaus, most credit cards use only one or two. In my experience, all other cards use either fico8 or fico9. Not capone, they use older fico versions, 2,4 and 5 maybe. Oh, and I think discover uses vs3.

Where were we? Most of us on myfico ignore vantage, since it's name isn't myfico. Also because it's little used. The free plan on myfico provides an Equifax fico8. So, along with the free ex score, you have two of the three fico8 scores. Many banks provide account holders a credit score, with Capone it's tu vs3. Some provide a fico score. There are lists in other posts. You can also get paid subscriptions. One I have tried is credit.com. They have a paid plan that is free if cancelled in 7 days. It gives a bunch of fico scores, including 8&9.

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

FicoMike0 — Fri, 24 May 2024 03:27:00 GMT

Looks like you got the same story twice. In short, most of us interested in card credit look at the three fico8 scores. If you get two for free, that's a decent sample. If you want to check all 28, the free 7 day with credit.com will give you a snapshot.

If you see a big difference among the three fico8s, then you need to compare the raw reports from annualcreditreport.com.

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

FicoMike0 — Fri, 24 May 2024 03:33:47 GMT

among the cards I have, wells Fargo uses ex fico9, commerce uses tu fico bankcard 9. All others use fico8.

For me, the version 9s are all a little higher than the 8s. Seem to rise and fall together.

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

FicoMike0 — Fri, 24 May 2024 03:43:53 GMT

If scores from the 3 bureaus are much different, make sure they are all the same version. The outlier is usually a vs3. The fico8s should be close. The bureau with more hard inquiries will be a little lower, those count against your score. Many banks only pull one bureau, so only that score is affected. For me, I have 4 tu, 2 ex and 0 eq, in the last 12 months.

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

Thomas_Thumb — Fri, 24 May 2024 05:20:36 GMT

@Apexcrest123 wrote:
Hey guys....
very important question. Why does transunion report a different score, 680. Do card companies like capital one and such use fico 8 scoring? Or a mix of fico 8 and vantage 3.0?

There are quite a few CC issuers that report VantageScore 3.0 with TU being the most frequent. My Fidelity Visa provided me a TU VS 3.0 but used Fico TU score 4 for a HP CLI a few years back. My AMEX green card shows a VS3 score online but also provides access to a Fico 8 score. So, both VS and Fico may be available on a specific CC.

Double check to see which credit score is being displayed for each card.

P.S. Discover provides a TU Fico 8 score.

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

GZG — Fri, 24 May 2024 04:39:42 GMT

@Apexcrest123 wrote:
The only one that has a balance is the Authorized user capital one account i have with my wife. Its strange because on my experian report it says all zeros besides that account because i pay in full. But somewhere i read that AU accounts dont count for this. And you guys have told me consistently to leave around a ten dollar balance. Well somehow, my amazon store card reported a4 dollar balance and my account went from 721 fico to 735 overnight! So its true, authroized user accounts dont factor into the equation of utilization, so why do they even put that on my experian report that i have an 11 percent balance from my Au account? Maybe its just a metric to help you do your own financial statistics.

also, very important question. Why does transunion report a different score, 680. Do card companies like capital one and such use fico 8 scoring? Or a mix of fico 8 and vantage 3.0?

There is personal revolving all-zero penalty and AU revolving all-zero penalty, they are distinct, separate penalties which means the ideal profile maintains AZEO for personal accounts and AZEO for all AU accounts as well.

Not a fan of AU accounts personally. They can artifically raise your credit score and change other credit metrics that will go entirely unconsidered by lenders and it just gives a false sense of where your credit is actually at.

so your credit report might have a higher score and older 'age of accounts' but the vast majority of lenders are just going to completely discount that information entirely.

it's fine if you're actually using the card in daily life, but if it's just to 'improve credit' I honestly wouldn't bother in most situations.

as said above, practically nobody uses vantage 3.0 scoring in their underwriting. What score a lender does use is based on their own underwriting.

Cap1 for instance uses FICO 5, 4, 2 (mortgage credit scores) Discover uses Experian FICO 8 for CC's (typically).

old thread about this question

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

Thomas_Thumb — Fri, 24 May 2024 05:23:31 GMT

The vast majority of CC issuers look at a Fico score for credit card decisioning. However, they often provide a different free credit score. That certainly can account for an outlier credit score relative to the others.

VS3 includes AU cards in utilization as do the older Fico 04 models (EQ score 5, TU score 4 and EX score 3). The newer Fico 8, 9 and 10 models do not.

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

Apexcrest123 — Fri, 24 May 2024 14:16:54 GMT

Ok i got it. So my AU account with cap one, i actually do use, if i didnt i would close it today knowing this new info. Its only 5 months old anyway and not my longest account.

MY fico 8 is 735 yes, but, the 680 scores are coming from credit karma, credit sesame and places like that.

im going to subscribe to one of the companies that only give fico 8 scores.

thanks everyone for the reply. I was added a few weeks ago to a rooms to go card that has 4 years of history on it and perfect payments. Im going to check experian fico 8 to see if the age metric counts right now, if it doesnt then im going to cancel that one too.

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

SouthJamaica — Fri, 24 May 2024 15:54:09 GMT

@Apexcrest123 wrote:
Ok i got it. So my AU account with cap one, i actually do use, if i didnt i would close it today knowing this new info. Its only 5 months old anyway and not my longest account.

MY fico 8 is 735 yes, but, the 680 scores are coming from credit karma, credit sesame and places like that.

im going to subscribe to one of the companies that only give fico 8 scores.

thanks everyone for the reply. I was added a few weeks ago to a rooms to go card that has 4 years of history on it and perfect payments. Im going to check experian fico 8 to see if the age metric counts right now, if it doesnt then im going to cancel that one too.

With 735 FICO scores, you don't need to be bothering with oddball cards, store cards, authorized user cards, etc.

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

Apexcrest123 — Fri, 24 May 2024 16:01:55 GMT

Your right, and i feel the same way, with a 735 score i should be able to be approved for a decent card, however the problem is my short credit history. If i could get a card from amex or citi or an apple card or something like that, id be on top of that, but they wont prequalify me and on there pre qualifications they always list

Not enough credit history length

Opened too many cards recently

Im going to wait a few more months and try the pre approval tools again. Id try right now but i feel like its a wate of time.

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

Slabenstein — Fri, 24 May 2024 16:16:35 GMT

@Apexcrest123 wrote:

Im going to wait a few more months and try the pre approval tools again. Id try right now but i feel like its a wate of time.

If you opened six cards in the last six months, I'd let your reports cool off and wait at least a year before applying for another new card.

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

SouthJamaica — Fri, 24 May 2024 16:40:18 GMT

@Apexcrest123 wrote:
Your right, and i feel the same way, with a 735 score i should be able to be approved for a decent card, however the problem is my short credit history. If i could get a card from amex or citi or an apple card or something like that, id be on top of that, but they wont prequalify me and on there pre qualifications they always list
Not enough credit history length
Opened too many cards recently

Im going to wait a few more months and try the pre approval tools again. Id try right now but i feel like its a wate of time.

Yes you definitely need to 'garden' for awhile. But your next credit card application, when it comes, should be for a good bank or credit union card.

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

Thomas_Thumb — Fri, 24 May 2024 17:29:03 GMT

@Apexcrest123 wrote:

the problem is my short credit history. If i could get a card from amex or citi or an apple card or something like that, id be on top of that, but they wont prequalify me and on there pre qualifications they always list
Not enough credit history length
Opened too many cards recently

Im going to wait a few more months and try the pre approval tools again. Id try right now but i feel like its a wate of time.

Listen to the parrots - Pete and repeat are advising you to wait. Specifically wait until your current youngest revolver reaches 12 months. Then get a couple tier 1 cards with higher SLs.

Earlier this week a poster got her AMEX blue cash everyday with a $2k SL. Her Fico 8 credit score was 670. Key difference was no new accounts or HPs on file.

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

Snook_on_the_Line — Sat, 25 May 2024 03:03:12 GMT

Agreed 👍🏻

listen to the parrots 🦜

they give good advice.

btw, I love the title of this thread.
Ahh, the moment you realize that the credit crazys on this forum really do know what they're talking about.

Re: ITS TRUE, LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE! plus another question about fico….

Apexcrest123 — Sat, 25 May 2024 03:24:24 GMT

I have truly learned so much. Im set for my goals now. Because of this board, i beleive some day in the next 2 years ill have a card that i can hand select, im proud of this board and all the members who contribute to it, my hats off to you all for making america a better place. Seriously.