topic Re: Scorecard change results in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Scorecard change results

SRT4kid93 — Tue, 01 Sep 2026 21:24:33 GMT

Today I went from a young to a mature scorecard and I lost 16 points on FICO 8. I haven't checked any of the other FICO models yet.

the interesting part is that I lost 45 points on vantage score. Which doesn't really matter but I did find it interesting because I didn't know that vantage score had the same scorecards as FICO. I wasn't really expecting that.

@BrutalBodyShots

I know we discussed this and I told you I would let you know the outcome

Re: Scorecard change results

Thomas_Thumb — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 13:48:05 GMT

VantageScore does not have the same scorecards as Fico 8 or any other Fico model. VS 3 published a graphic of their scorecards but not specific breakpoint details. It has 13 scorecards, segmentation is quite different from Fico 8. That graphic was pasted on the forums a few times in years past. You should be able to find it by searching.

Re: Scorecard change results

BrutalBodyShots — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 01:43:56 GMT

@SRT4kid93

The FICO 8 drop sounds about right to me for the scorecard reassignment referenced. That shift usually confuses the heck out of people, so it's great that you had the understanding of what was likely to happen beforehand.

I know nothing about VS3 scorecards, but I'd highly doubt they resemble those of FICO. I'd be extremely shocked to see that AoOA of 3 years meant scorecard reassignment for VS3. That being said, I'd imagine the volatile 45 point drop you saw was for something else completely. I'm no VS3 expert by any means, so if I'm wrong I certainly welcome someone letting me know.

Re: Scorecard change results

SRT4kid93 — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 01:26:19 GMT

@BrutalBodyShots

The only hint I have is from chases "credit journey" as they break down the score changes and actually assign a point loss to each individual change.

for example this time it said my point loss was because "I no longer have new accounts (since 2 accounts are now over 2 years of age) however I think we know that an account aging up past 2 years would not cause a point loss by itself, but perhaps a scorecard change as a result of the 2 year threshold could explain the loss

Also, here are Some Other examples of Chase assigning points to each reason from my previous changes

- you have 1 account over 20% utilization causing a 5 point loss

- you have 1 less inquiry causing a 3 point gain.

I usually never put any stock in this sort of thing, but perhaps the accounts aging caused a scorecard reassignment

Re: Scorecard change results

BrutalBodyShots — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 01:48:02 GMT

Are you certain that the reasons being provide through Chase Credit Journey are actually the reasons for the score changes referenced? How do you know that they aren't like a FICO CMS source that just provides alerts and scores that don't need to have any correlation? I've never paid much attention to VS3, so I'm not sure if there are some CMS that actually can tell you why your score changed. We know with FICO that's not the case. We know that Credit Karma (which is of course a VS3 source) doesn't give reasons for score changes, just alerts similar to FICO CMS sources.

Re: Scorecard change results

SRT4kid93 — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 03:35:05 GMT

@BrutalBodyShots

every time I'm expecting a score change (especially one that I'm extra interesting about) I always do everything I can to get rid of every possible variable.

in this case I had very recent score pulls from before and after. Minimizing any other potential changes. In this specific instance no cards reported between before and after. The only change being the calendar turning over to September

Furthermore as mentioned Chase gets pretty much every potential change between each pull and assigns each a point value (where other outlets only provide 1 reason)

So for example, Credit Karma might only say "increased utilization" but In reality you had 10 other changes that also happened, but they only provide 1 reason.

I've seen as many as 5-6 changes with Chase credit journey with a point value assigned to each change provided. (I don't give any weight to the point value assigned to each change, but I do believe it gives you most if not every change)

the only changes it doesn't say are specific scorecard changes as those are proprietary. So it won't say "you changed scorecards". But it will say "you're account went over 3 years and you lost 30 points"

is it possible there's some change I'm not seeing? Sure? But I have no idea what it would be

Re: Scorecard change results

BrutalBodyShots — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 04:19:43 GMT

So is it a fact that a CMS like Chase CJ that provides VS3 actually can provide you with reasons for a score change? I know that no FICO score CMS can, but I'd like to know the answer for a VS3 providing CMS. If it's possible, how can a Chase CMS have access to the proprietary information of the VS3 algorithm?

Re: Scorecard change results

Thomas_Thumb — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 14:04:06 GMT

Scorecards:

VantageScore (3.0)

VS3 scorecards.jpg

Scorecards image Fico 8.jpg

Fico 98 (EX score 2) and Fico 04 (EQ score 5, TU score 4, EX score 3) algorithm

Scorecards Fico 04 & 98.jpg

Below are links to VS articles describing VS 3.0 scorecards, VS 4.0 scorecards and VS 4.0 trending.

https://cdn.vantagescore.com/uploads/2022/01/VantageScore3-0_WhitePaper.pdf

https://cdn.vantagescore.com/uploads/2022/09/VantageScore-4.0-UserGuide_abr_Sep22.pdf

Re: Scorecard change results

SRT4kid93 — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 15:43:14 GMT

@BrutalBodyShots

I would imagine it's just like anyone else, They can't tell you specifics on which scorecard you are in or anything like that. But they absolutely give you more than one reason on why your score changed so you can see the entire picture.

and they even take it a step further by attributing point losses/gains for each specific reason. again I don't give any weight to to the points breakdown. But my main point is this

this time they said the point loss was due to accounts aging up. If there had been more reasons why my score changed, they would have included those reasons as well. (Excluding anything proprietary)

so for example, if my accounts aged up and a late was introduced, and my utilization went up, and I had a new inquiry it would include all those reasons. (Again hypothetically)

Re: Scorecard change results

FicoMike0 — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 15:59:51 GMT

Thanks @Thomas_Thumb that's interesting.

I don't think the vs3 chart entirely makes sense. Under the " No previous bankruptcy " branch, they list 4 bankruptcy cards. I guess they really have another "Full File" sub under the "Previous Bankruptcy" branch.

@SRT4kid93 I'll have to take another look at Chase journey, it may offer some calue.

Re: Scorecard change results

BrutalBodyShots — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 17:18:43 GMT

@SRT4kid93

So you're saying that a CMS that provides a VS3 (specifically, Chase Credit Journey) can provide reasons for score changes... do you know that to be a fact? I guess what I'm asking is how do you know that the CMS is providing you with a reason for the score change as opposed to just providing you with a report data change that is correlating with the score change? The same way a FICO score source/CMS can "get it right" at times in terms of the alert reason correlating with the score change provided, how do we know Credit Journey isn't doing the same thing? If Credit Journey is able to tell you why your score changed, my question is how is that possible when we're talking a proprietary algorithm? And, why wouldn't other CMS that provide VS3 (like CK) not have the same ability to do the same thing?

Re: Scorecard change results

Thomas_Thumb — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 18:31:37 GMT

@FicoMike0 wrote:
Thanks @Thomas_Thumb that's interesting.
I don't think the vs3 chart entirely makes sense. Under the " No previous bankruptcy " branch, they list 4 bankruptcy cards. I guess they really have another "Full File" sub under the "Previous Bankruptcy" branch.

Agreed. The wording of those scorecards is confusing. vS3 has 13 scorecards. The labels on the right side under no previous bankruptcy are misleading. They are profiling relative propensity for a potential bankruptcy or delinquent (bad) account.

Reading the paper in the VS4 link discusses their approach to scorecards.

Re: Scorecard change results

FicoMike0 — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 18:36:07 GMT

I guess fico8 has a 13th scorecard, it's called "unscorable", lol.

I was there about 3 years ago.

Re: Scorecard change results

SRT4kid93 — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 18:50:26 GMT

@BrutalBodyShots

no I have no way of knowing if the reasons given are the reasons for the score change. Just saying it's able to give multiple reasons, and it also gives reasons I've never seen before on other monitoring sites.

for example, credit journey said my score changed because my accounts aged over 2 years. I have never seen anything like that on fico. (Sure I have seen my score go up, and I put 2 and 2 together, but fico has never been that detailed)

So the reasons appear more detailed. the reason I was given appears to be them saying "you changed scorecards" without actually saying it

Re: Scorecard change results

FicoMike0 — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 19:31:40 GMT

That link to vs4 used guide is quite a read. I notice in the part about ethnic group bias, they say they infer ethnicity by zip code. That's interesting in how to evaluate data you're not allowed to use. We often question use of data that's not available from all lenders. They address that issue, claiming its not a big deal.

I wish we had access to a big group of files. I wonder how well a score based solely on zip code would work.

Re: Scorecard change results

BrutalBodyShots — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 21:53:17 GMT

no I have no way of knowing if the reasons given are the reasons for the score change.

@SRT4kid93 - Understood. That's what I figured, but I wasn't sure if you knew something I didn't on that front. So just like any other CMS, Credit Journey is just providing alerts and score changes and it just seems that their alert reasons tend to address the score changes, making it seem like they are the actual reasons for the score changes.

When you say Credit Journey "said your score changed" because your accounts aged over two years, is that simply your interpretation then? It's not actually saying that's the reason why if you're not certain that their CMS can tell you why your score changed.

I think I'm just a bit thrown off by your word choice... because you're saying you don't know if the CMS can tell you why your score changed, but then say that it told you why your score changed.

@FicoMike0, that whole zip code debate has always baffled me. Maybe I'm just not "traveled" enough, but almost every zip code I've ever been a part of or looked into had both "bad" areas with low income/subpar housing and also "good" areas where upper middle class or even extremely well off people lived. I guess my point is I don't know how zip code alone can really do much. Maybe they're referring to the "+4" (9-digit) zip codes where you can get right down to street addresses?

Re: Scorecard change results

FicoMike0 — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 22:17:45 GMT

I don't know, but if they can infer race, I'll bet they can get income and other things.

Re: Scorecard change results

SRT4kid93 — Thu, 03 Sep 2026 00:55:27 GMT

@BrutalBodyShots

let me try to explain

they are giving me A reason why my score changed. But I can't say with 100% certainty that it's THE reason.

for example- it says my accounts aged over 2 years and that's why my score dropped. We know accounts aging up wouldn't cause a score drop, so the only logical conclusion is that the accounts aging up caused a scorecard change (which would be the actual reason my score changed)

but there could potentially be another reason they aren't saying. I don't believe thats the case because as mentioned, they tend to include every change in your profile. And I have ruled out every other potential change. 45 points is not a small number, there's only a small number of things that would cause a change of that magnitude.

even with all this being said, I just can't say with 100% certainty there's not something else I'm not seeing. I would say I'm 99% sure it's the accounts aging that caused the scorecard change change. But there's always that small chance it's something else.

all I know is I ruled out every possible variable, no late payments were introduced, and my utilization did not change. And they said my accounts aging cause the score change. That's enough for me to be 99% certain.

Re: Scorecard change results

BrutalBodyShots — Thu, 03 Sep 2026 01:46:06 GMT

@SRT4kid93 wrote:

they are giving me A reason why my score changed.

Are they though? How are you certain that is what they are doing as opposed to any other CMS that gives you an alert reason that may (or may not) be related to the score change provided?

To be clear on where I'm coming from here, I'm not trying to troubleshoot why your score changed. I'm not looking at variables or anything of the sort. I'm simply focusing on whether it's a fact or not (if you know for certain either way) that Credit Journey actually provides reasons for a score change. My gut says no, as I'd imagine it's just like any other CMS... but since it's realted to VS3 and I have next to no experience with VS3 I could certainly have this one wrong.

Re: Scorecard change results

SRT4kid93 — Thu, 03 Sep 2026 03:16:42 GMT

@BrutalBodyShots

Can't say for sure. I can only give my educated guess based on the information I have. Which is

- the only change I can see is that the calendar flipped and accounts aged

- they are telling me score drop is because of account age

- it happened the exact same time as my fico scorecard change. The same day.

so I'm just using what information I have