topic Re: How to determine which account is CFL? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

How to determine which account is CFL?

eaunspa — Sat, 17 May 2008 14:02:47 GMT

Hello,

I have checked my credit report for Experian and all my accounts are Revolving or Installments, none of the company names have CFL in them. How can I determine which account is CFL? Why is Experian the only one that is bringing my score down because of it?

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 17 May 2008 14:23:18 GMT

Ah, CFL's: the accounts we love to hate!

Unfortunately, your reports never show that they are treated as CFL's. There is just a code that goes along with them. Generally the lender has the words "finance" or "financial" in their names. So Wells Fargo Financial is CFL, Wells Fargo Bank is not. Citifinancial is CFL, Citibank is not. Frequently CFL's are those deals you get in the mail, saying Hello, EAUNSPA, you are approved for $17,296, or some wacko figure, plus they are often in-store financing at furniture stores. (Certainly not always, though.)

Who are the issuers of your various installment loans? If you list them here, we can take a stab at them.

Another possibility, and I would only apply this to EX and NOT to EQ or TU, is to look at the accounts list on your myFICO EX score report. Check out the little symbols on the left of the account names. You'll see credit cards, houses, cards, mortarboard (the little hats you wear at graduation) and a little money bag. The money bags indicate a personal unsecured loan, and they may help you figure out which loans are CFL's.

You'll get a money bag for a non-CFL signature loan as well, so this is just an indicator of which ones might be consumer finance loans.

By the way, where did this comment come from? I get it with my TrueCredit FAKO score reports on EX, but I don't get it on the EX myFICO report, so I don't know if it's counting in my real scores. I use TrueCredit to look at my reports, but I don't put any weight in their scores or their score advice. In fact, sometimes following their advice can actually hurt your FICO's. This is true of the other monitoring services as well (freecreditreport.com, CreditSecure, etc.)

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

Anonymous — Sat, 17 May 2008 14:31:23 GMT

Buying a score report from MyFICO will tell you if you have any too.

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

eaunspa — Sat, 17 May 2008 14:36:17 GMT

Thank you for your reply. It must be my auto lease that is a CFL. I leased it from the Dealer and they used Chrysler Financial!!! *sighs* I'm so happy I found this website because nobody tells you these things and I can't wait for the day I finally get it all figured out and stop hurting myself. I did the Suze Orzman thing on this website to get my FICO and credit report. That is where Experian feedback said that I have a CFL that is lowering my credit score. I don't understand why Transunion is 674, Equifax is 699 and Experian is 662. Is it normal to have your FICOs be so vastly different?

All of my accounts are paid on time, the advice I have is to pay of debt and don't open any new accounts because I have a lot of accounts.

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 17 May 2008 14:44:42 GMT

FICO scores are usually different from each other, because each credit bureau/ CRA commissions its own score formula, and they reward and penalize different things. EQ nails you for lates, EX for new accounts, TU for multiple accounts with balances and so forth.

My Honda lease came from Honda Finance, but it has a car symbol by it on the EX report (not on the other two), and I don't think it's a CFL. I kind of think the same about your Chrysler Financial. You can try calling them and asking how they code the lease, but good luck on getting a sensible, believable answer! This might be a miscoding on their part, in which case it would be worth getting it fixed.

As far as I know, my only CFL is a personal loan from Wells Fargo Financial. I get scolded by EX on my TC reports, but not on my FICO reports, because it's already full of complaints about my late payments.

Do you have any other installment loans at all?

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

eaunspa — Sat, 17 May 2008 15:06:42 GMT

I got personal loans back in 1998/1999 but they've been paid off since 2000. They were both just under $2000 and I paid them of in months. Maybe these are the CFLs? The creditor was Equity One. I used my car as equity to get these personal loans. But this has been 8 years ago, I would why they would still be keeping my score down. When will these fall off my credit report?

I will call Chrysler Financial and see if they'll tell me how they coded it.

I had a mortorcyle/auto loan that just got paid off. Are you saying any type of installments loan is a CFL?

What about a mortgage?

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 17 May 2008 16:14:59 GMT

I wouldn't be surprised if it were those old, closed loans.

No, CFL's are a small sub-set of installment loans. Car loans shouldn't be CFL's, and mortgages aren't either. CFL's typically have high-ish interest, and they're quite easy to get (as I mentioned above, the random mailed offers are often CFL's.)

That's why they are scored lower by FICO: they are viewed as a sign of desperation, because they are so easy. I think that's a very incorrect assumption. I accepted my WFF because it was handy, and it never occurred to me to go get a signature loan from my credit union, which would NOT have been a CFL. And furniture prices are grossly inflated because they know that many shoppers will take the 0% for X number of months option, not realizing that these are often scored as CFL's. If they're going to use this reasoning, then they should also apply it to Tribute, Aspire, Continental, and other vulture CC's.

Anyway, I'd confirm with Chrysler the exact nature of your financing. It might even be a good sign that you get this message. It might mean that you're running out of negatives for your EX score, and they're reaching deep down to come up with something.

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

Anonymous — Sat, 17 May 2008 20:07:29 GMT

The only time I ever saw someone have a CFL on an auto was back last year they said CAP1 titled the loan incorrectly by mistake when it should have been auto title. Generally all autos fall in to their own category called auto loans. Never heard of a CFL auto loan. I took my auto loan from a financial company (yea they hit me with high interest) and it was titled auto. Just because a company is considered a Consumer Finance Company doesn't mean that every loan they have is CFL titled.

I took out a regular bank installment loan and they titled it collection account. Mistakes happen and I can see a CFL on an auto like that but not intentionally...

However if you ran in to a situation where you were looking to refinance an auto loan they could title it consolidation loan which is Consumer Finance even from a bank... That title is bad.

If you are really worried that you have a CFL loan you have 2 options. First pull a Free Credit Report directly from Trans Union. They often show more details about installment loans in the notations. And then from MyFICO where a Score Power will definitely tell you for sure. But honestly you could just list all your installments on here and people could tell you if the lender is CFL or not. I don't think car loans are CFL regardless of who give them out unless they are titled as not a car loan. Some people *do* take out personal loans for autos and this would not be titled auto.

Just look for the words *secured* or *auto* in the remarks and you should be ok. Auto is also a secured loan because the vehicles title is the secured part.

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

eaunspa — Mon, 19 May 2008 14:58:26 GMT

Here are all of my installment loans from the credit report. I appreciate anyone who can tell me which is a CFL. The rest of the items on my account are REVOLVING and if I understand correctly those can't be CFLs.

Other Account
Usaa Federal Savings B Status as of [?] Mar, 2008
Date opened [?] Dec, 2006
Date of last activity [?] Mar, 2008
Date of last payment [?] Apr, 2007
Date closed [?] Not Reported
Account number [?] XXXX0453
Loan type [?] Secured Loan
Credit limit [?] Not Reported
Largest past balance [?] Not Reported
Terms [?] 48 Months
Account Type [?] Installment
Account holder [?] Individual
Scheduled payment amount [?] Not Reported
Account status [?] Account is Closed

Descriptions [?]
Account closed at consumer's request
###########################################3

Other Account
Equity One Status as of [?] May, 2001
Date opened [?] Apr, 2000
Date of last activity [?] May, 2001
Date of last payment [?] Not Reported
Date closed [?] Not Reported
Account number [?] XXXXXXXXXXXX4128
Loan type [?] Secured By Household Goods
Credit limit [?] Not Reported
Largest past balance [?] Not Reported
Terms [?] 42 Months
Account Type [?] Installment
Account holder [?] Individual
Scheduled payment amount [?] Not Reported
Account status [?] Account is Inactive

Descriptions [?]
None on Record
##########################################

Student Loan Account
Nelnet Lns Status as of [?] Apr, 2008
Date opened [?] Sep, 2004
Date of last activity [?] Apr, 2008
Date of last payment [?] Apr, 2008
Date closed [?] Not Reported
Account number [?] 4399
Loan type [?] Education Loan
Credit limit [?] Not Reported
Largest past balance [?] Not Reported
Terms [?] 120 Months
Account Type [?] Installment
Account holder [?] Individual
Scheduled payment amount [?] $71
Account status [?] Account is Open

Descriptions [?]
None on Record
########################################

Student Loan Account
Nelnet Lns Status as of [?] Apr, 2008
Date opened [?] Jun, 2004
Date of last activity [?] Apr, 2008
Date of last payment [?] Apr, 2008
Date closed [?] Not Reported
Account number [?] 4499
Loan type [?] Education Loan
Credit limit [?] Not Reported
Largest past balance [?] Not Reported
Terms [?] 120 Months
Account Type [?] Installment
Account holder [?] Individual
Scheduled payment amount [?] $39
Account status [?] Account is Open

Descriptions [?]
None on Record
###########################################

Student Loan Account
Nelnet Lns Status as of [?] Apr, 2008
Date opened [?] Jun, 2003
Date of last activity [?] Apr, 2008
Date of last payment [?] Apr, 2008
Date closed [?] Not Reported
Account number [?] 4199
Loan type [?] Education Loan
Credit limit [?] Not Reported
Largest past balance [?] Not Reported
Terms [?] 120 Months
Account Type [?] Installment
Account holder [?] Individual
Scheduled payment amount [?] $36
Account status [?] Account is Open

Descriptions [?]
None on Record
########################################
Student Loan Account
Nelnet Lns Status as of [?] Apr, 2008
Date opened [?] Sep, 2003
Date of last activity [?] Apr, 2008
Date of last payment [?] Apr, 2008
Date closed [?] Not Reported
Account number [?] 4299
Loan type [?] Education Loan
Credit limit [?] Not Reported
Largest past balance [?] Not Reported
Terms [?] 120 Months
Account Type [?] Installment
Account holder [?] Individual
Scheduled payment amount [?] $33
Account status [?] Account is Open

Descriptions [?]
None on Record
#######################################
Student Loan Account
Nelnet Lns Status as of [?] Apr, 2008
Date opened [?] Apr, 2003
Date of last activity [?] Apr, 2008
Date of last payment [?] Apr, 2008
Date closed [?] Not Reported
Account number [?] 4099
Loan type [?] Education Loan
Credit limit [?] Not Reported
Largest past balance [?] Not Reported
Terms [?] 120 Months
Account Type [?] Installment
Account holder [?] Individual
Scheduled payment amount [?] $28
Account status [?] Account is Open

Descriptions [?]
None on Record
#########################################

Student Loan Account
Sallie Mae Servicing Status as of [?] Mar, 2008
Date opened [?] Aug, 2005
Date of last activity [?] Mar, 2008
Date of last payment [?] Mar, 2008
Date closed [?] Not Reported
Account number [?] XXXXXXXXXXX0001
Loan type [?] Education Loan
Credit limit [?] Not Reported
Largest past balance [?] Not Reported
Terms [?] 48 Months
Account Type [?] Installment
Account holder [?] Individual
Scheduled payment amount [?] $50
Account status [?] Account is Open

Descriptions [?]
None on Record
###########################################

Student Loan Account
Education Fin Service Status as of [?] May, 2001
Date opened [?] Nov, 1995
Date of last activity [?] May, 2001
Date of last payment [?] Not Reported
Date closed [?] Not Reported
Account number [?] XXXXXXXXXX0002
Loan type [?] Education Loan
Credit limit [?] Not Reported
Largest past balance [?] Not Reported
Terms [?] 20 Months
Account Type [?] Installment
Account holder [?] Individual
Scheduled payment amount [?] Not Reported
Account status [?] Account is Inactive

Descriptions [?]
None on Record
##################################################
Student Loan Account
Education Fin Service Status as of [?] May, 2001
Date opened [?] Mar, 1995
Date of last activity [?] May, 2001
Date of last payment [?] Not Reported
Date closed [?] Not Reported
Account number [?] XXXXXXXXXX0001
Loan type [?] Education Loan
Credit limit [?] Not Reported
Largest past balance [?] Not Reported
Terms [?] 20 Months
Account Type [?] Installment
Account holder [?] Individual
Scheduled payment amount [?] Not Reported
Account status [?] Account is Inactive

Descriptions [?]
None on Record
#############################################
Vehicle Loan Account
Chrysler Financial Status as of [?] Apr, 2008
Date opened [?] Dec, 2005
Date of last activity [?] Apr, 2008
Date of last payment [?] Apr, 2008
Date closed [?] Not Reported
Account number [?] XXXXXX4374
Loan type [?] Lease
Credit limit [?] Not Reported
Largest past balance [?] Not Reported
Terms [?] 39 Months
Account Type [?] Installment
Account holder [?] Individual
Scheduled payment amount [?] $404
Account status [?] Account is Open

Descriptions [?]
None on Record
######################################################
Vehicle Loan Account
Usaa Federal Savings B Status as of [?] Oct, 2005
Date opened [?] Aug, 2001
Date of last activity [?] Oct, 2005
Date of last payment [?] Jun, 2005
Date closed [?] Not Reported
Account number [?] XXXX9996
Loan type [?] Auto Loan
Credit limit [?] Not Reported
Largest past balance [?] Not Reported
Terms [?] 60 Months
Account Type [?] Installment
Account holder [?] Individual
Scheduled payment amount [?] Not Reported
Account status [?] Account is Closed

Descriptions [?]
Account closed at consumer's request
#######################################################
Vehicle Loan Account
Equity One Status as of [?] Apr, 1999
Date opened [?] May, 1997
Date of last activity [?] Apr, 1999
Date of last payment [?] Not Reported
Date closed [?] Not Reported
Account number [?] XXXXXXXXXXXX5548
Loan type [?] Auto Loan
Credit limit [?] Not Reported
Largest past balance [?] Not Reported
Terms [?] 24 Months
Account Type [?] Installment
Account holder [?] Individual
Scheduled payment amount [?] Not Reported
Account status [?] Account is Inactive

Descriptions [?]
None on Record
#########################################################
And this is what I read that says why my Credit Score is 662 with Experian.

#############################################################

You have a consumer finance account on your credit report.

Consumer finance companies typically grant loans to people with poor credit histories. Their customers often cannot get loans from traditional lending companies such as banks or credit unions. These are often high-interest loans because the consumer finance company is assuming more risk by lending to people with less than perfect credit.

The fact that you have a consumer finance company loan on your credit report means that you represent a higher risk to lenders than someone with no consumer finance loans. Even if this consumer finance account is closed, it will still lower your FICO score. However, its impact on your score will lessen as time passes.

What to do about this: You should try to stay current with all of your payments and avoid opening any new credit accounts that you don't need.

Only 12% of FICO High Achievers [?] have a consumer finance account.

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

Anonymous — Mon, 19 May 2008 18:04:18 GMT

If you got this message directly from Experian I'd ignore it. If you got it from MyFICO I guess it was the Loan type [?] Secured By Household Goods. MyFICO should identify the actual account I thought.

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

eaunspa — Mon, 19 May 2008 18:12:11 GMT

I got these from MyFICO not Experian. I wonder why MYFICO wouldn't identify them since they are the ones indicating I have CFL.

Thanks for your feedback!

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

eaunspa — Mon, 19 May 2008 18:13:58 GMT

One more thing...why is it after you've paid something off, Date of Last Activity continues to increment even after years of paying something off. Doesn't this make the time before something drops off your report increase? What type of activity is going on after you've paid something off?

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

haulingthescoreup — Mon, 19 May 2008 20:41:55 GMT

@eaunspa wrote:

I got these from MyFICO not Experian. I wonder why MYFICO wouldn't identify them since they are the ones indicating I have CFL.

Thanks for your feedback!

None of them print out in big bold letters "CFL," whether myFICO, TrueCredit, other 3-in-1's, or the full things straight from the credit bureaus.

I agree, I'll bet that it's that "secured by household goods" thing. Looks like it will fall off in May 2011. Annoying, but I don't think it's hurting you much.

When you look at the myFICO EX report, do you see the symbols by each loan that I described in the second post? I wouldn't try this with an EQ or TU report, but you almost might be able to believe EX. Which ones have the car symbol, which have the mortarboard, and which have the money bag? I'd say that it's one of the money bag loans.

We've been trying to figure out how indicative these symbols are of how a loan is treated, so please don't everyone go crazy if they have a money bag by their car loan, etc. I have those on my Honda lease for EQ and TU, but a car symbol on EX, yet all my scores are pretty similar, so it might well be just a display quirk.

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

eaunspa — Mon, 19 May 2008 20:55:43 GMT

Hey,

I have a money bag next to the "Household Goods"...Equity One loan AND I have one next to USAA Federal Savings Bank, which was a motorcycle loan on EX. Should I call USAA and see if they wrongly designated this loan as CFL? instead of auto loan? That would hurt my credit right?

What would you ask them specifically if this is something I could / should do?

Thanks!

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

haulingthescoreup — Mon, 19 May 2008 20:59:30 GMT

@eaunspa wrote:

Hey,

I have a money bag next to the "Household Goods"...Equity One loan AND I have one next to USAA Federal Savings Bank, which was a motorcycle loan on EX. Should I call USAA and see if they wrongly designated this loan as CFL? instead of auto loan? That would hurt my credit right?

What would you ask them specifically if this is something I could / should do?

Thanks!

USAA is so good to work with that I'm sure they'd be willing to look at the coding. I assume that motorcycle loans would be classified as auto loans? They seem more like a car than like a sofa.

Tell them that on one of your reports it looks like it's being treated as a consumer finance loan, and can they check the coding on their end.

Please keep us posted --if something winds up changing after you make your call, I guess I'm going to have to get on the phone too!

(And the Equity One does look like the real CFL. Don't think you're going to get anywhere on that one, and it's probably more helpful with its history than harmful with its loan type.)

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

eaunspa — Mon, 19 May 2008 22:22:57 GMT

USAA is saying they are reporting it as a Motorcycle loan, so why is it showing up with the money bag?? Why isn't there a definitive way to determine what is a CFL? This is very frustrating. USAA says if it's not a real estate loan that all loans are "consumer loans" they don't say "consumer finance loans" BUT consumer loans. What do you guys think about this?

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

haulingthescoreup — Mon, 19 May 2008 22:35:42 GMT

@eaunspa wrote:
USAA is saying they are reporting it as a Motorcycle loan, so why is it showing up with the money bag?? Why isn't there a definitive way to determine what is a CFL? This is very frustrating. USAA says if it's not a real estate loan that all loans are "consumer loans" they don't say "consumer finance loans" BUT consumer loans. What do you guys think about this?

Again, the money bag only denotes that it's some type of personal loan, not necessarily a CFL. I suppose that myFICO doesn't have a symbol for a motorcycle loan?

I've always been told that a signature loan from a bank or CU is NOT a CFL, but merely a personal loan. (And these do show up with a money bag.) DH is fascinated with signature loans from our local credit union and has about a dozen on his reports, but he has never had the CFL ding, and right now he has no negatives on any of his reports.

So maybe you're only being dinged for the single Equity One loan, and "too many" = 1.

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

RobertEG — Tue, 20 May 2008 06:40:10 GMT

How to determine which existing TLs are a CFL or a more solid form of install loan is something I will leave to the experts.

As a teaching tool for future credit actions, it is undisputed that FICO scores a CFL with more distain that a bank/personal/secured, etc., install loan. So dont take out a CFL until you have exhausted other established loans.

Listen to the FICO webinar of 4/11/08.

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

eaunspa — Tue, 20 May 2008 12:52:23 GMT

RobertEG,

That is why I'm so unhappy - to my knowledge I never took out a CFL. LOL I don't know what your post was really trying to say. Who are the experts? Can they tell me with 100% certainty which of my loans is a CFL? I need to knwo this so that in the future I can ensure I'm not taking out a CFL loan.

Thanks!

Re: How to determine which account is CFL?

Anonymous — Tue, 20 May 2008 20:01:27 GMT

I still think the Secured by .... another person other than you as household, could be seen as this Consumer Finance loan. If it were secured by you than it would be a Personal Secured. This is the first time I had seen a title like that. This could confuse the score system. It doesn't hurt to try and have them retitle it as personal loan or secured personal loan. However they would also need to change the coding for the loan as well. I have never been successful in getting a bank to do this properly so now I make them give me a letter with the correct title and send the letter to the CRAs as a dispute to correct on the CRA side. Lenders don't have a clue what we are talking about and usually won't understand that you want it recoded either. They will just change the noted title which is not what you need changed. I'd try to get a letter stating that title and coding on the account type is incorrect and should be changed to.... for both. The CRAs can make the correct adjustments. This is only a guess, it should be one of these two and my guess is this one.