topic Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards") in Understanding FICO® Scoring

FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

Anonymous — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 17:47:09 GMT

FICO Scoring Buckets (scorecards):

From my review of this and other forums and other sources, I have this list of the 10 current FICO scoring buckets...let me know how accurate it looks:

Scorecard:

#1 - For those with a bankruptcy on their credit report

#2 - For those with serious delinquencies other than bk's (60+? or 90+ lates, collections, judgments, repossessions, etc.).

#3 - Those with only 1 credit accouint (very thin files)

#4 - Those with ony 2 credit accounts (thin files)

#5 - Those with only 3 credit accounts.

Scorecards 6-10 must NOT have ANY serious delinquencies (not sure if that means 60+ or 90+ lates):

#6 - 0-2 years oldest TL

#7 - 2-5 years oldest TL

#8 - 5-12 years oldest TL

#9 - 12-19 years oldest TL

#10 - 19+ years oldest TL

I have heard that FICO 08 is going to 12 buckets, but for now, we have these 10. I'd like to hear from all mods and super contributors on its accuracy so we can get this right for all members.

Thanks.

Message Edited by Boscoe on 08-23-2008 10:47 AM

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

Anonymous — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 17:56:39 GMT

Public records are all on 1 score card (BK's and public records)

There is one for "recently applying for credit"

Only 2 of the current scorecards are "negative" 08 will have 4

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:10:34 GMT

I'm still trying to figure out which buckets trump others. I know that I'm in an age-driven score bucket (I can tell from Scorewatch alerts and from how my positives and negatives change when I hit a major age change), but I also have a 90-day.

So it appears to me that at least in my case, the age, both long overall and short average, drive my bucket assignment, rather than the serious derog.

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

Anonymous — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:58:08 GMT

I have come to believe that age related buckets are not totally dependent on oldest account, but rather they also look at average age or the age of revolving credit.

For example, if you have a 12 year history but only a 1.5 year average age (something extreme like that) you are likely not in what we would consider on this board to be the "12-19" year bucket.

It may be

Age Tier 1-6

and though you would normally be in age tier 4 with 12 years of history, if you have little history on all but 1 card you may be in tier 3 or lower.

I have no proof of that, except to think that my TU score has one year lower average age and it is 16 points behind EX (with same utilities, no baddies, and only one account reporting 1 percent util) I doubt one year of average age would account for that difference. I suspect TU and EQ/EX are in different buckets.

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

Anonymous — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 19:12:54 GMT

I agree, I think there are many buckets too. This is some heavy thinking. I have identified some changes for buckets but only gave then names like O,N,S, ect... Not sure what makes buckets change yet but know when I am in a different one and what to do differently for it to keep scores up. Interesting. It would be cool to know where the buckets are.

What do you think about: (no neg buckets)
(I am only guessing)
6 months and 23 months
2 to 4+ years
5 to 9+ years
10 to 14+ years
15 to 19+ years
20+ years

But then I started thinking maybe avg age was a bucket factor that eliminated some of the middle ones.

There is a bucket change that I found between 12-13 oldest years or 5-6 years in avg age. The CR I looked at had both happen at the same time, didn't know which one changed the bucket. Didn't see any other changes.

Message Edited by ilovepizza on 08-23-2008 03:12 PM

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

Anonymous — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 19:24:04 GMT

pizza,

I believe that we think there is a 12 year bucket because most people with 12 years of total history have the requisite average history to move into a "higher bucket." That said, I think you are onto something with the average age hitting 5-6 years being a necessity for some of these moves.

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

Anonymous — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 20:02:35 GMT

I definitely believe that ave age is factored into scorecards and think that 6 years is a transition point.

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 20:52:49 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

I have come to believe that age related buckets are not totally dependent on oldest account, but rather they also look at average age or the age of revolving credit.

For example, if you have a 12 year history but only a 1.5 year average age (something extreme like that) you are likely not in what we would consider on this board to be the "12-19" year bucket.

I'm certain you're right! I am the proud owner of a 19 year longest / 3 year 6 month average history, and things changed drastically when I first re-aged back in February. But then they changed again in June (I think it was) when I went from 18 years to 19. So maybe it was driven by longest age up till February, and then it flipped to either 3.5 AAoA or serious derog, and then went back to longest when Discover hit 19 in June. Nevertheless, I received a re-bucket message when I first added the Discover last October, so I know that at that point, it was age- rather than derog-driven.

If nothing else, it's entertaining.

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

marty56 — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 11:15:40 GMT

haulingthescoreup wrote:
If nothing else, it's entertaining.

I cant wait for celebrity FICO death match.

In this corner Marty with a EX 760, Oh no, HTSU hits Marty with a PFD droping his score 90 points. Marty fights back with 7 new credit apps and a 120 day late, HTSU fight back with ....

Message Edited by marty56 on 08-24-2008 04:15 AM

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 23:29:22 GMT

No, no, I'm not a fighter. It would be more like Celebrity Go Fish:

marty: hauling, have you got any PFD's for BofA?
hauling: Go fish! marty, have you got an extra year for average age of accounts?
marty: Aarrrgghhh! *slams one year card down on table and stalks off*

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 05:43:49 GMT

I reviewed today 2 CRs with 0 negs, both with oldest accounts just 12 yrs old. They had different number of inqs and different number of total accounts. Neither were thin files. Both had installments and revolving accounts.

CR #1 was in bucket "X" (better quality bucket), avg age turned 7+ years and oldest account 12 yrs.

CR #2 was in bucket "Z", (lower quality bucket) had -6 years avg age and oldest account was 12 yrs.

They acted different on the sim so I suspect different buckets. CR #2 was older with more accounts too.

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

marty56 — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 11:32:16 GMT

ilovepizza wrote:
What do you think about: (no neg buckets)
(I am only guessing)

Interesting. If there was a major derog score bucket, how would it work? What criteria would FICO use to help someone who is in the major derog score bucket or hurt them for that matter

I dont think it is util since there is no util score bucket and util is not time based. I dont think is the number of them since there is no evidence here that someone would loose more points for getting another major derog if they allready have one.

I suppose that major derog score bucket could work as a negative bucket where I prevents you from reaching say 800 if you have one. That would be true in my case. But then util would be a bucket for the same reason.

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 17:25:58 GMT

I haven't seen UTL affect buckets on the low UTL end up to I think 25% based on my UTL only. Don't know if lets say (guessing) 50% UTL or higher shifts down a bucket? I'll let you know next time my UTL gets up that high. I don't know as much about buckets with negative accounts. Mostly the CRs that I view have no negatives.

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

haulingthescoreup — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:05:06 GMT

Per myFICO big kahuna, util doesn't drive buckets. Otherwise, we'd be shifting in and out of buckets every time our reports updated. It's age, derogs, and apparently combinations thereof.

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

Math_Rocks — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:46:40 GMT

Not trying to TJ. I know I'm neither a mod nor a super contributor, but could one of you please start a new thread explaining what you are discussing. I've heard the term bucket thrown around a lot but I don't know precisely what they and how one determines if they are in a bucket. Thanks!

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

smallfry — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 00:27:22 GMT

@haulingthescoreup wrote:
Per myFICO big kahuna, util doesn't drive buckets. Otherwise, we'd be shifting in and out of buckets every time our reports updated. It's age, derogs, and apparently combinations thereof.

There is a poster over at BC who has a BK7 from 2001 with an average age of 4 years with scores over 775 each bureau. I have 2 public records on EX and EQ had 2 on TU until last month. When the tax lien dropped from TU there was no score change so I am thinking 1 derog is the same as 2 maybe even more. This was a mid month pull with no other changes to my TU report.

My utilization has remained at 1% for over 1 year baddies have aged positives have aged yet my scores are dropping. New accounts are not welcomed in the derog bucket.My scores were only marginally lower over a year ago with an average age of 6 years 56% utilization and 12K available credit. Had a brand new car loan as well. BofA is my last credit card application.

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

haulingthescoreup — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 01:19:54 GMT

With public records and derogs, you can have 1 or 31. The buckets are driven by presence of a public record or collection. It's not till the last one falls off that things change. Obviously it's important to keep working to clean things up, but there probably won't be much of a score change until you finally kill the last one off.

Very discouraging to go through all the work to remove one and see no change, but you just have to tell yourself that you're that much closer.

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

smallfry — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 01:28:41 GMT

@haulingthescoreup wrote:
With public records and derogs, you can have 1 or 31. The buckets are driven by presence of a public record or collection. It's not till the last one falls off that things change. Obviously it's important to keep working to clean things up, but there probably won't be much of a score change until you finally kill the last one off.

Very discouraging to go through all the work to remove one and see no change, but you just have to tell yourself that you're that much closer.

Actually Hauling removing the tax lien from TU couldn't have been easier. They were just too cheap to pay for verification. It was off within 2 days. I'll continue to use my cards intelligently and PIF every month but there is no sense in paying for scores anymore just to aggravate myself. As long as I experience no AA from my 6 issuers I am fine with it. Funny thing is if I had stopped after I got my Penfed and Sea Miles cards last May my scores would be 30 points higher at a minimum.

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:49:54 GMT

@Math_Rocks wrote:
I don't know precisely what they and how one determines if they are in a bucket. Thanks!

Scoring is divided up by groups of people that have similar credit reports. These people fall under a different scoring formula. Some people will benefit from actions and other will have score drops for the same actions. We call these scoring groups buckets. We are trying to identify which buckets people are in to know if certain actions would help or hurt our scores. But mostly just because we like the challenge of learning this fun puzzle. The entertainment keeps us motivated to work on our credit reports.

Re: FICO Scoring Buckets (or "Scorecards")

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:07:41 GMT

From what I've read regarding scorecards (or buckets) it seems a lot of people are misinterpreting what it means. Some people seem to be implying that a person with 'bad' credit can have a higher FICO score than a person with 'good' credit which would defeat the whole purpose of the FICO score. Assuming FICO scores are normally distributed (bell curve), all it means is that the closer you get to the tails of the distribution the less future impact factors that put you there will have on your score. e.g. negative factors will have less percentage impact to a person already sitting in the lower end while positive factors will have less percentage impact to someone in the high end. and the converse is also true: positive factors will have greater impact to people in the low end while negative factors have more impact to the high end people.