topic Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:48:43 GMT

TU, EX, or EQ???

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:58:24 GMT

Depends if you have lates, don't have a mortgage or have high UTL

If you have a perfect payment history, low UTL and a basic mix of revolving and a little length on your history- they are about the same.

For me - it's EQ- they seem to HATE my lates and they also zapped a perfectly paid mortgage for no reason.

GeorgiaPeach08 wrote:

TU, EX, or EQ???

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:27:45 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

For me - it's EQ- they seem to HATE my lates and they also zapped a perfectly paid mortgage for no reason.

Yep, same with me. (See my scores below.) EQ always, always lags.

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

TerrenceATL — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:31:47 GMT

Yeah EQ is my lowest also.

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:12:00 GMT

So, here is the proof that EQ is not always the lowest :-)

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

MidnightVoice — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:13:32 GMT

For me, it is EX because the Heloc=CC bit

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:53:33 GMT

I assume this discussion is based on the 'best guess' scores that the 3 bureaus calculate independently from FICO? It is my understanding with how FICO scoring works that differences in the scores we see from FICO are a result of how the model interprets the data supplied by the CRA's and do not reflect differences in a score calculation between the 3 bureaus but rather differences in how the data is reported between the 3?...I assume that if all 3 bureaus contain the same data and report it the same way that the FICO score should be identical?...please correct me if I'm wrong...

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

athensguy — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:01:55 GMT

Each bureau has a different scoring formula.

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:22:35 GMT

once again...you're saying that the FICO calculation is different for each of the bureaus? Maybe FICO has made adjustments to the model to account for differences in how the bureaus report their data, but my understanding is that FICO is not affiliated in any way with the 3 bureaus... I doubt that they're letting the credit bureaus tell them how to calculate the score.

Obviously, each bureau has their own in-house model to estimate what the FICO score is (the FAKO) but from what I've seen those are basically junk statistically speaking.

If this is the case, please provide some sort of documentation that indicates that the FICO calculation is different for the 3 bureaus...

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:49:38 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

once again...you're saying that the FICO calculation is different for each of the bureaus? Maybe FICO has made adjustments to the model to account for differences in how the bureaus report their data, but my understanding is that FICO is not affiliated in any way with the 3 bureaus... I doubt that they're letting the credit bureaus tell them how to calculate the score.

Obviously, each bureau has their own in-house model to estimate what the FICO score is (the FAKO) but from what I've seen those are basically junk statistically speaking.

If this is the case, please provide some sort of documentation that indicates that the FICO calculation is different for the 3 bureaus...

Each credit bureau hires FICO to create a unique scoring formula, based on their (the CRA's) preferences. Each one has knows turn-ons and turn-offs, to quote Playboy bunnies. When you or someone else pulls your FICO scores, the CRA's crank your reports through their unique FICO formulae, and ta-da, there are your scores, almost always all different.

And we are not talking about the CRA's home-grown/ roll-your-own FAKO scores; we're talking about your FICO's.

I'm not about to go do your research and provide documentation. The obvious indicator is the fact that if you buy all three of your FICO scores, each will probably be different one from another, and each score report is apt to give you differing factors as to what helps and what hurts your scores. Your FICO scores.

Last heard, these are the most current classic FICO formulas, not counting the near-mythical FICO 08:

EQ=BEACON 5.0
TU=EMPIRICA 98 (now being changed to EMPIRICA 04)
EX=Fair Isaac Risk Model Version 2

Message Edited by haulingthescoreup on 09-24-2008 08:49 AM

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:37:18 GMT

Your credit score may be different at each of the main credit reporting agencies.
The FICO score from each credit reporting agency considers only the data in your credit report at that agency. If your current scores from the credit reporting agencies are different, it's probably because the information those agencies have on you differs.

the above is taken directly from this website and supports my position that the data determines the score not the bureau...just because the scores have different names for each of the 3 bureaus doesn't mean that the algorithms are different...that's probably more a result of the business relationship that exists between Fair Isaac and the bureaus...it wouldn't make sense for a consulting firm to develop a scoring system to be used by lenders (not credit bureaus, they are only middle men) that is purposely designed to produce different results for each of the 3 bureaus.

I have done research and I don't find anything that supports your position on this other than some minor tweaking regarding how the inquiry window is handled for the different versions, that's why I want real documentation that suggests that the bureaus themselves are somehow dictating how the score is being calculated.

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

MidnightVoice — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:42:20 GMT

Northeasterner wrote:

Your credit score may be different at each of the main credit reporting agencies.
The FICO score from each credit reporting agency considers only the data in your credit report at that agency. If your current scores from the credit reporting agencies are different, it's probably because the information those agencies have on you differs.
the above is taken directly from this website and supports my position that the data determines the score not the bureau...just because the scores have different names for each of the 3 bureaus doesn't mean that the algorithms are different...that's probably more a result of the business relationship that exists between Fair Isaac and the bureaus...it wouldn't make sense for a consulting firm to develop a scoring system to be used by lenders (not credit bureaus, they are only middle men) that is purposely designed to produce different results for each of the 3 bureaus.
I have done research and I don't find anything that supports your position on this other than some minor tweaking regarding how the inquiry window is handled for the different versions, that's why I want real documentation that suggests that the bureaus themselves are somehow dictating how the score is being calculated.

But we know (from the powers that be at Fair Isaac) they they do use different formulae

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:46:46 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

the above is taken directly from this website and supports my position that the data determines the score not the bureau...just because the scores have different names for each of the 3 bureaus doesn't mean that the algorithms are different...that's probably more a result of the business relationship that exists between Fair Isaac and the bureaus...it wouldn't make sense for a consulting firm to develop a scoring system to be used by lenders (not credit bureaus, they are only middle men) that is purposely designed to produce different results for each of the 3 bureaus.
I have done research and I don't find anything that supports your position on this other than some minor tweaking regarding how the inquiry window is handled for the different versions, that's why I want real documentation that suggests that the bureaus themselves are somehow dictating how the score is being calculated.

The data themselves drive your scores. And the weight that is attached to the data comes from the scoring formula which was commissioned by each CRA.

No one said that someone in a task chair at the credit bureau looks at your report and picks a score.

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:24:19 GMT

"No one said that someone in a task chair at the credit bureau looks at your report and picks a score"

I'm not sure how you're getting that from what I'm saying...what you're suggesting is that Fair Isaac collaborates with the credit bureaus individually and the credit bureau says we want X,Y, Z to be factored more heavily in our score calculation...I just don't see it happening that way...what I do see happening is Fair Isaac adjusting the algorithms slightly between the bureaus to account for the differences in how the data fields are supplied by each bureau in an attempt to make the scores as consistent as possible between the 3 bureaus.

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:43:51 GMT

Actually, my significant other's credit reports are exactly the same with each of the CRA. He has a mortgage and 3 credit cards. All the accounts have the same history and dates, etc. He has 3 different scores between each CRA. Yes, they are within 20 points of one another, but each score is different. So, I concur, it is not probable that you will have the same score with each CRA even if you have the same exact report with each one. I am talking about FICO's also. We found this when we were applying for another mortgage.

Edited for typo.

Message Edited by KsCreditGal on 09-24-2008 10:43 AM

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:34:45 GMT

Yes, all these scoring systems, FICO and FAKO, work off of the identical underlying reports maintained by the CRA's. A lot of times people find things missing or erroneous or just plain weird on their secondary reports (myFICO, TrueCredit, etc.), but that seems to result from problems in data mapping.

This is why when people find strange things on their FICO score reports that we advise that they go pull the real thing from the CRA's themselves.

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:26:48 GMT

"Actually, my significant other's credit reports are exactly the same with each of the CRA. He has a mortgage and 3 credit cards"

I don't know if we (consumers) could ever make that statement simply because we don't see all the data fields that are being supplied by the bureaus to FICO nor do we know how/which fields are being included in the FICO model.

I would say that all the necessary data elements required by the FICO model being exactly the same for each of the bureaus at the moment the FICO scores are generated on this website is pretty unlikely which is why the scores are usually a little different even if we think the reports are the same...I know my own CRA reports are usually reporting slightly different balances for some of my credit cards...a lot of it depends on when the data is provided by the creditor to the bureau and what IT protocols the bureau has in place for updating their systems and how often they're implemented.

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:38:43 GMT

Northeasterner - a large part of the different scores come from the factors you describe below. Some do not. You may not believe hauling because she didn't spend 2 hours to track down documentation for you, but she is absolutely correct. The formulas are different for the different bureaus. You can find documentation on that on the Fair Isaac website or even by doing "research" on google.

Hauling is one, if not the, most knowledgeable poster on here that doesn't work for Fair Isaac (the FICO brand owner). I know you are new and likely don't just trust what other people say, but Hauling knows her stuff. Other posters who know credit in and out defer to her - and we don't question her documentation.

Welcome to the wonderful world of proprietary data and credit scoring. I hope you enjoy the board.

Northeasterner wrote:
"Actually, my significant other's credit reports are exactly the same with each of the CRA. He has a mortgage and 3 credit cards"

I don't know if we (consumers) could ever make that statement simply because we don't see all the data fields that are being supplied by the bureaus to FICO nor do we know how/which fields are being included in the FICO model.

I would say that all the necessary data elements required by the FICO model being exactly the same for each of the bureaus at the moment the FICO scores are generated on this website is pretty unlikely which is why the scores are usually a little different even if we think the reports are the same...I know my own CRA reports are usually reporting slightly different balances for some of my credit cards...a lot of it depends on when the data is provided by the creditor to the bureau and what IT protocols the bureau has in place for updating their systems and how often they're implemented.

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

marty56 — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:22:00 GMT

EQ for me. They are brutal on lates.

Re: Out of the 3, which has the toughest scoring system?

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 03:29:59 GMT

EQ for me