topic Re: Should I wait or go for it? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Should I wait or go for it?

nothingman02 — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:55:13 GMT

On my Transunion;

Negative:

I have on OC CO.

Good a/cs;

AU, CL - 16000, Bal - 2500

CC1, CL - 200, Bal - 0

CC2, CL - 200,Bal - 0

Store Card, CL - 250, Bal - 0

CITI, CL - 3000, Bal - 0, (Closed current and paid as agreed and no lates)

AAoA - 1 7/12 years

UTL 85%

Inq 3 (one of which and most recent is a CA inquiry (May 6th))

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So now, When my UTL was 9% last month, my TU was 653

But this month, the UTL is 15% and my TU went down to 639 ( - 14 pts)

A CA got deleted and my TU is now 676.

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I apped and got approved for a juniper for 500CL and they have alreday reported to EX today. Going by past experiance, it should show up on TU tomorrow or day after and subsequently on EQ.

My UTL is going to go down some more obviously and I should gain some points. But I will lose some points for a new a/c and also for the inq.

My small local bank MGR told me that with a TU of 640 or more, I will qualify for a CC or an Auto loan.

So my questions is, should I wait till the new CC shows up on TU so my UTL goes down a bit and then apply or should I expect more ding than gain and hence apply with my bank right now before the new a/c shows up on TU.

Also my UTL will drop down to less than 6% after my BOA AU updates later this month of june. But theres a risk of a deleted CA reappearing if I wait too long.

As always, thanks for the help.

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

nothingman02 — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:36:26 GMT

Bump.....Bum bum bum bump....

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

llecs — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:10:45 GMT

If this were me, I wouldn't app for any more unless I needed it. Your mix is great. Remove the closed accts and the AU, you are still in perfect shape.

Adding any more CCs will drop your score. The gain from the lower util (15% to 6%) would be less than the loss from the new TL, IMO.

Now if I needed new credit and a new relationship so as to eventually replace the AU acct, for a new car loan, potential higher CL, etc., then maybe. Depends on your goals I guess.

nothingman02 wrote:
UTL 85%

I take it you meant 15%?

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

nothingman02 — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:31:21 GMT

Hi llecs,

Thanks for the reply. Sorry about the UTL. Its 15% and not 85%

My TU before I apped was 676 with just one CA inq. Now I have two more inqs from Juniper and National city the later incidentally is a denial because of too many inquiries and short credit history.

1) So those two inquiries probalby already gave me a hit. So I am guessing if I app for this auto+cc with my local bank, my scores will be lower. Probably 7,8 points?The new TL hasnt hit yet on TU but most likely will tomorrow or day after dropping my score further. The bank is right next door and will close in another hour. So I am trying to figure this out. If I should app before juniper hits TU.

2) I lost 14 points when the UTL went up from <9% to 15% last month. So will I not get those points back when this month updates and the UTL goes back below 9%? I am also gonna have some more CL with the new TL. If so, maybe I should wait till everything in June updates? Will the new TL be a neg apropos points as well as manual review for CC approval?

3) I do need some credit right now (gotta pay NYDMV ). And also an Auto Loan. A big reason why I cant app or take up good jobs in my field of study. I dont really have a long(er) distance (over 30 minutes!!) car and it sucks.Besides, if I can get one more higher limit card, I will get the AU off of my CBRs and will be on my own. The AU is only 10 months old. My oldest is 4.5 yrs and my AAoA is 1 7/2 years.

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4) On a different topic, how do I use new CCs? Juniper is 500CL. What if I use up say 90% and pay it off in 2-3 months or something. Will they start closing cards? I read that juniper review a/cs every months.

And national city denial reasons are as above. Do you think I have a chance with recon?

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

llecs — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:58:30 GMT

1) IMO, inquiry damage is overrated. If you'd app, you probably wouldn't see a change. Once anything new reports, then you'd see the damage, albeit mostly temporary.

2) Did any of your new CCs report for the first time last month?

4) There's no way to predict CCC behavior anymore. I'd say carrying large balances for long periods of time is bad (but I did it myself not too long ago without incident). Some here have 800 scores and saw CLDs, ratejacks, and closures. It is anyone's game now.

NatCity is great. Knowing what I know about them, AAoA be darned...I'd recon.

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

nothingman02 — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 21:32:17 GMT

@llecs wrote:
1) IMO, inquiry damage is overrated. If you'd app, you probably wouldn't see a change. Once anything new reports, then you'd see the damage, albeit mostly temporary.

Thats great! So my scores are probably okay now but will likely drop after everything updates this month? Because of the new TL? Will the new TL really hurt that much? I lost 14 points for increase in UTL and was assuming I would atleast get those 14 back as the UTL is gonna decrease more than it increased.Will the new TL offset and further, even hurt my scoresmore despite that?

If so, I will app for the new CC+Auto tomorrow and hoping TU wiuldnt have updated the new TL. Else I will wait till the end of this month.

2) Did any of your new CCs report for the first time last month?

Nope! My next newest a/c is spiegel in March. In this month, spiegel will turn 3 months (some gain? but they are not reporting after the first month), FP will turn 5 and HSBC will turn 4.

4) There's no way to predict CCC behavior anymore. I'd say carrying large balances for long periods of time is bad (but I did it myself not too long ago without incident). Some here have 800 scores and saw CLDs, ratejacks, and closures. It is anyone's game now.

Hmm... I guess I will take some chance here. Hope will be under their radar for a couple of months.

NatCity is great. Knowing what I know about them, AAoA be darned...I'd recon.

I called then once and I was told that I was declined because of short history and too many inquiries.But theres only 3 including theirs. Of course one of them was a CA inquiry. They said I would get a detailed letter soon. I called back later in the day and was told that its premature and I should call back after I receive the denial letter and then they would see. And that maybe consider recon if there was any error on the reports or soemthing.I was really hoping for something from these guys as every post about them that I read has been positive. I applied for the lifesprings health visa as I could not apply for anything on the National city website. No CCs for my location/zipcode apparently.

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

RobertEG — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 01:43:30 GMT

When you app for the new loan, the inq wont affect your FICO scoring for at least 30 days. No inquiries within the last 30 days are scored by FICO, even if immediately reported to a CRA.

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 02:05:06 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
When you app for the new loan, the inq wont affect your FICO scoring for at least 30 days. No inquiries within the last 30 days are scored by FICO, even if immediately reported to a CRA.

Wow, thanks for the tip Robert! I did NOT know that! So they report, and show up on a CR, but don't affect FICO's for a month. Great to know.

Message Edited by austintex on 06-03-2009 07:05 PM

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

nothingman02 — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 02:29:54 GMT

Wow! Thats an interesting point there. I thought FICO scores were instant snapshots and reflect the CBRs at a given instant. If any change occurs, and someone pulls the scores, the scores are calculated at that very instant with the data exisitng at that very moment which should then consider the new inquiry imediately.

Well, Its a very good thing if its true cause I intend to do one more app and am trying to figure out which one.

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

smallfry — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 02:40:01 GMT

Inquiries don't count until they are 30 days old? Can you show me something published by FICO that states that? Doesn't make any sense to me. If you incur a pull then pull a score if that inquiry would push you over your limit for any score damage it would be reflected immediatley.

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

llecs — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 02:41:43 GMT

I've seen many a post by those with high scores who took a hit immediately after apping, because of the inquiry.

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

RobertEG — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 03:36:35 GMT

FICO Webinar on credit scoring, posted on the Credit Education tab on this site by Fair Isaac.

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

smallfry — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 03:40:01 GMT

@llecs wrote:
I've seen many a post by those with high scores who took a hit immediately after apping, because of the inquiry.

I've seen this too but I will read the link Robert says the info is in.

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

RobertEG — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 03:49:17 GMT

I was not precise in my prior post... it deals with auto loan and mortgage inqs.

Here is is an exact quote from their webinar...

"There are two stages to the treatment of an inquiry associated with mortgage and auto loans. First, there's a 30-day buffer period. For the first 30 days that an inquiry is on your credit report it will be ignored by the FICO score. Then, once it passes that 30-day window, inquiries are grouped so that all inquiries within a rolling 14-day period are considered as just one inquiry by the FICO score."

Message Edited by RobertEG on 06-03-2009 08:49 PM

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

smallfry — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 03:59:54 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
I was not precise in my prior post... it deals with auto loan and mortgage inqs.

Here is is an exact quote from their webinar...

"There are two stages to the treatment of an inquiry associated with mortgage and auto loans. First, there's a 30-day buffer period. For the first 30 days that an inquiry is on your credit report it will be ignored by the FICO score. Then, once it passes that 30-day window, inquiries are grouped so that all inquiries within a rolling 14-day period are considered as just one inquiry by the FICO score."
Message Edited by RobertEG on 06-03-2009 08:49 PM

More like it.

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

nothingman02 — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 04:03:18 GMT

This thread has been hijacked!

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

llecs — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 06:54:50 GMT

Sorry...bumping here....

nothingman02 wrote:
@llecs wrote:
1) IMO, inquiry damage is overrated. If you'd app, you probably wouldn't see a change. Once anything new reports, then you'd see the damage, albeit mostly temporary.
Thats great! So my scores are probably okay now but will likely drop after everything updates this month? Because of the new TL? Will the new TL really hurt that much? I lost 14 points for increase in UTL and was assuming I would atleast get those 14 back as the UTL is gonna decrease more than it increased.Will the new TL offset and further, even hurt my scoresmore despite that?
If so, I will app for the new CC+Auto tomorrow and hoping TU wiuldnt have updated the new TL. Else I will wait till the end of this month.

IMO...the new credit ding will exceed points gained from util by a few points. However, you'll gain all back within 3-4 months and come out ahead eventually, all things being equal of course.

Re: Should I wait or go for it?

nothingman02 — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 11:00:29 GMT

Was only kidding. Thanks for the info. I am going to the bank today to app. Will post back here the results.