topic Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help! in Understanding FICO® Scoring

NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

UpAndComing74 — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:52:23 GMT

Sooo, Im attempting my first FHA mortgage, when my LO pulled my credit it was EQ 616 TU 597 EX 548. She said my mid score needed to be a 600. So I'm 3 points off. WELL, there were 2 collections on my report from RJM totaling $1061. They were set to fall off 07/11. SO I called them and they agreed to a PFD. I paid them and contacted the CRA today. I was advised that the accounts had been deleted. I updated my FAKO report at Truecredit and it too showed that the accounts were deleted...BUT THERE WS NO CHANGE IN SCORE!!! Please explain to me how that can possibly be! I'm currently at 90% util on my CC''s. I know paying those down will cause a boost. But shouldn't the removal of 2 negative accounts cause a boost also?????

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

Jazzzy — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 00:19:43 GMT

A bit confused here...are you saying there was no change in your FAKO score or your FICO score?

Also, remember...mortgage lenders often use TU04, and the TransUnion score we get here is TU98, so the TU score you get here will likely be different than your LO will get. When will your LO pull again?

I would think the collections being deleted would help. But...pay down some of that credit card debt if at all possible. That will easily give you the 3 points.

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

UpAndComing74 — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 00:47:34 GMT

Thanks for responding..to clarify...there is no change in the FAKO...I haven't bought the updated FICO yet. But I thought it safe to assume thati if the FAKO changes the FICO would also. My 3 CC have limiits of 1100, 2000, and 200 with balances of 868 (HSBC) 2019 (credit union) and 30 (store card) respectively. I'm paying my HSBC Down to 100 tomorrow. We want to pull again 2/20.

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

Jazzzy — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:37:54 GMT

@UpAndComing74 wrote:
Thanks for responding..to clarify...there is no change in the FAKO...I haven't bought the updated FICO yet. But I thought it safe to assume thati if the FAKO changes the FICO would also. My 3 CC have limiits of 1100, 2000, and 200 with balances of 868 (HSBC) 2019 (credit union) and 30 (store card) respectively. I'm paying my HSBC Down to 100 tomorrow. We want to pull again 2/20.

Are you over the limit on this card, or am I reading it wrong? If so, you need to pay some on this card to get it under the limit.

What your FAKO does is not necessarily the same as what your FICO would do. They often do not correlate.

If you have another 3 weeks or so before you pull again, is there any possibility of paying more on these cards? Your utility is hurting you.

For one thing, pay the 30 off on the store card and get it to a zero balance...and leave it at a zero balance until they pull again. FICO also counts HOW MANY cards you have balances on. Ideally, you should only show a balance on one out of three.

Also, remember, just because you pay a card down doesn't mean it reports right away to the credit bureau. Some cards report the balance shown on the statement, and some report the last business day of the month. You may want to ask on the Credit Card forum how/when your card reports. You not only have to manage the balances, you have to manage the reporting.

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

UpAndComing74 — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:44:44 GMT

Cooooollll!!! Ok so I understand what you're saying. I happen to know the habits of all three cards. HSBC reports last day of the month. Credit Union reports on the 14th(Statement balance) and Target on the 8th(Statement balance) so I'll pay off the HSBC tommorrow. I'll also pay off the $30 target card and that bring the credit union card just under the limit. That should give me the best credit boost right? My plan is to hold my breath and pull 2/20 then I am free to use the balances on the card once they update. I hope this gives me my much needed 3 points.

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

AndySoCal — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 03:50:44 GMT

I would not worry about the store card. You want to get the credit union card below the credit limit. Being over the limit is hurting your score. Make sure you factor in what the finance charge will be when it is calculated when they bill you. You want that card reporting under the credit limit.

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

Jazzzy — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 13:45:16 GMT

@AndySoCal wrote:
I would not worry about the store card. You want to get the credit union card below the credit limit. Being over the limit is hurting your score. Make sure you factor in what the finance charge will be when it is calculated when they bill you. You want that card reporting under the credit limit.

Hi Andy...the only reason I addressed the store card is that it is only 30 bucks. Getting that one out of the way may give a boost.

To the OP...I absolutely agree with Andy that you need to pay as much on the credit union card as you can. They will add a month's interest back on, and you could have penalties added if you are truly over the limit. If there's any way to throw more at that...do it.

And it's not a great idea to start using the cards after they report. You never know what can happen if for any reason they need to repull. During the time you are qualifying for a mortgage is no time to be using credit. Wait until the mortgage actually closes.

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

Junejer — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 16:34:36 GMT

The only things that I would add is that 1). By paying off the store card, there will be fewer cards with a balance, therefore, there's a great chance of seeing a score boost from that. And 2). Please make sure you check your monitoring service to ensure that the accounts have updated BEFORE you have your LO pull your reports again.

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

AndySoCal — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 03:02:03 GMT

Sorry Lynette if I offended you I did not mean to. My main concern was making sure that card gets under the credit limit. IMO if the store card reports with a balance or no balance the score will not change. I could be wrong. Getting the card below the card limit will help. As well as paying down the other balance.

What are the top two reasons on your FICO scores? These are the reasons that are influencing your score the most.

Message Edited by AndySoCal on 01-28-2010 07:01 PM

Message Edited by AndySoCal on 01-28-2010 07:02 PM

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

Junejer — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 03:25:54 GMT

The "too many accounts with balances" squawk is a real danger to the FICO score.

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

UpAndComing74 — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 03:35:18 GMT

Thank you guys for all the wonderful advice..still a lil confused about those deleted chargeoffs not reporting an increased score)....but in reference to Andy's post. He asked what are the top two reasons on my fico scores...where do I find these "reasons"? Are they the reasons that are on the 2 scales, left side red..right side green?

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

Jazzzy — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 04:44:02 GMT

@UpAndComing74 wrote:
Thank you guys for all the wonderful advice..still a lil confused about those deleted chargeoffs not reporting an increased score)....but in reference to Andy's post. He asked what are the top two reasons on my fico scores...where do I find these "reasons"? Are they the reasons that are on the 2 scales, left side red..right side green?

Yes...Andy was asking what your two top negative reasons are. They are listed in priority order. Those reasons tell you what is hurting your score the most.

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

Jazzzy — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 04:50:23 GMT

@AndySoCal wrote:
Sorry Lynette if I offended you I did not mean to. My main concern was making sure that card gets under the credit limit. IMO if the store card reports with a balance or no balance the score will not change. I could be wrong. Getting the card below the card limit will help. As well as paying down the other balance.

OP

What are the top two reasons on your FICO scores? These are the reasons that are influencing your score the most.

Oh Andy...no offense. I agree that it is important to bring that over-the-limit card down.

I also think the total number of accounts with balances makes a difference. I have 7 credit card accounts. We pay in full before the statements cut each month, but we continue to use the cards, so it's not unusual for us to have small balances show. My score jumps up and down by 8 points...back and forth, back and forth...depending upon whether two of the accounts show a small balance or whether it's three.

Isn't tweaking FICO scores fun?

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

UpAndComing74 — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:49:23 GMT

Andy/Lynette....My top two reasons that hurt my FICO are 1. Delinquency/Collections. It shows that I have 6. I PFD on 2 so whenever I pay for an update it should show only 4. THe other ones will not agree to PFD so I was advised by a birdie not to pay them just let them fall off. Although they state the last updates were DEC 09, so I dont know if they're constant updating is hurting me. Should I pay for the updated TU report or wait till the CC balances report and then pay for the FICO pull. These deletions were not showing on EQ so scorewatch wont help me. 2. High Credit Card usage. It states that I'm at 88% used. Ived paid the $1100 down to $100. Ive paid the $200 store card to 0 and the $2000 credit union card to $1999. That's all I could do before they post the balances. So that will bring me down to 63% I know FICO wants less but I'm only hoping for the 3 point boost right now. Any last words of wisdom before month end?

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:51:48 GMT

@UpAndComing74 wrote:
Andy/Lynette....My top two reasons that hurt my FICO are 1. Delinquency/Collections. It shows that I have 6. I PFD on 2 so whenever I pay for an update it should show only 4. THe other ones will not agree to PFD so I was advised by a birdie not to pay them just let them fall off. Although they state the last updates were DEC 09, so I dont know if they're constant updating is hurting me. Should I pay for the updated TU report or wait till the CC balances report and then pay for the FICO pull. These deletions were not showing on EQ so scorewatch wont help me. 2. High Credit Card usage. It states that I'm at 88% used. Ived paid the $1100 down to $100. Ive paid the $200 store card to 0 and the $2000 credit union card to $1999. That's all I could do before they post the balances. So that will bring me down to 63% I know FICO wants less but I'm only hoping for the 3 point boost right now. Any last words of wisdom before month end?

Here is how and when derogs drop from you CR, and are thus no longer included in FICO scoring.

Monthly delinquencies under an OC account drop at 7 years from their individual date of delinquency. FCRA 605(a)(5). The date of first delinquency (DOFD) has nothing to do with these drop-off dates. They drop from their own individual dates. So look at each prior OC reported monthly derog date, and simply add 7 years.

If the OC subsequently reports their account as a charge off, that is a totally different and additional post to your CR. Their post as a charge-off will remain in your CR for 7 1/2 years from the DOFD on the OC account, which is the first 30-day delinquency you had on the account, and disregards any later 60/90+ delinquencies that followed. That is one single date-certain, and cannot be reset. FCRA 605(c).

If the OC then refers the account for collection, and a CA posts to your CR, the drop-off date of their collection reporting is the same as that of a CO. It is 7 1/2 years from the same DOFD on the OC account, and the CA cannot reset this date. Again, FCRA 605(c).

So if you know the DOFD of these accounts you can figure when they will go away.

Message Edited by marinevietvet on 01-29-2010 07:51 AM

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

Jazzzy — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:05:18 GMT

@UpAndComing74 wrote:
Andy/Lynette....My top two reasons that hurt my FICO are 1. Delinquency/Collections. It shows that I have 6. I PFD on 2 so whenever I pay for an update it should show only 4. THe other ones will not agree to PFD so I was advised by a birdie not to pay them just let them fall off. Although they state the last updates were DEC 09, so I dont know if they're constant updating is hurting me. Should I pay for the updated TU report or wait till the CC balances report and then pay for the FICO pull. These deletions were not showing on EQ so scorewatch wont help me. 2. High Credit Card usage. It states that I'm at 88% used. Ived paid the $1100 down to $100. Ive paid the $200 store card to 0 and the $2000 credit union card to $1999. That's all I could do before they post the balances. So that will bring me down to 63% I know FICO wants less but I'm only hoping for the 3 point boost right now. Any last words of wisdom before month end?

As marinevietvet said, your collection accounts will fall off at 7 1/2 years from the date of first delinquency (DOFD). You won't see that date on some of the 3rd party reports, like those pulled here. If you pull directly from one of the credit bureaus, it will give you either the DOFD or the drop-off date. So...no...the CA can update the account all it wants; it is the DOFD that will determine when it falls off. Also, just because the other collection accounts have said "no" to a PFD now...that doesn't mean they won't agree in the future. Some of them say no to see if you will then just pay them anyway. If you don't pay them, try PFD again.

The words of wisdom I will give you is that you really need to throw some more money at the credit union card before the statement cuts. You have only left yourself $1 on your credit line. They will add interest and likely a penalty because you've already been over the limit. Then, you will be over the limit again. I don't know how much an over-the-limit card might hurt you on your FICO, but you could lose the benefit you've gained by your PFDs and paying the other cards down/off. Also, when/if your loan gets to underwriting, that's where a real human looks at it. That human isn't going to like an over-the-limit card.

Most of the minimums we've seen here for mortgages have been a minimum mid-score of 620. You say that you are applying with a minimum mid-score of 600. If that's the case, the rest of the report needs to be as clean as possible.

Have you thought about becoming an authorized user (AU) on a relative's card? That's a possibility that could help a bit, if it's an older card with no balance and a squeaky clean history.

Instead of pulling your FICO score now, put that money against the credit union card.

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

UpAndComing74 — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 17:12:15 GMT

Thank-You, I will remedy those cards. I couldnt help myself so I purchased and updated copy of my CR from MyFICO and the 2 collections were deleted and as I feared, Im still at a 597. I must say that I'm a little hurt and setback. I spent $500 for the deletes that were set to fall off next year anyway. That money could've went on the Credit Union card. I guess the only solace I can take from this is that I did owe the debt and now it's clear. But with all the PFD info out there, I was sure that I would see a bump in score. I love improving my FICO but this was a depressing setback!

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

Junejer — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 18:36:58 GMT

If there are still collections on your reports, they will hurt you. The scoring algorithm will only read one collection at a time, so if older collections were removed, the newer collections are still hurting you, therefore, you wouldn't see a score increase.

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

UpAndComing74 — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:34:34 GMT

Byrdman, That makes sense. That explanation helps me. So out of the 6, the ones that I deleted were the two oldest. The 4 remaining are new, new, new. 2 from early last year. Live and learn right? I should have paid off the most current ones. But now lemme ask, I have this silly one from Hollywood video for $65. They wont PFD but its on there from 2008. If I pay it in full, will it harm or help my FICO. I want to call them NOW!!! lol. I've been drinking FICOtini's but tnight when I get home, Im shooting for something stronger!!!

Re: NO SCORE CHANGE!!! Please help!

Junejer — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:00:15 GMT

Paying off a CA, without a PFD will do NOTHING to help your score. Some will even argue that it will hurt your score, due to updates of DOLA, etc. I'm from that school of thought.

UpAndComing74 wrote:
Byrdman, That makes sense. That explanation helps me. So out of the 6, the ones that I deleted were the two oldest. The 4 remaining are new, new, new. 2 from early last year. Live and learn right? I should have paid off the most current ones. But now lemme ask, I have this silly one from Hollywood video for $65. They wont PFD but its on there from 2008. If I pay it in full, will it harm or help my FICO. I want to call them NOW!!! lol. I've been drinking FICOtini's but tnight when I get home, Im shooting for something stronger!!!