topic Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:03:35 GMT

I can't seem to break the 759 barrier. Is something preventing this or Is there a key to doing this.

Message Edited by etisher on 06-21-2007 10:03 AM

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:32:59 GMT

Here's a link to a post about that elite group of FICO's "High Achievers":

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/fico/board/message?board.id=generalcredit&message.id=6111&query.id=25857#M6111

See Post #7 by MidnightVoice

Message Edited by masdeocho on 06-21-2007 01:32 PM

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

smallfry — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:27:36 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I can't seem to break the 759 barrier. Is something preventing this or Is there a key to doing this.

Message Edited by etisher on 06-21-2007 10:03 AM

Can't break 759? LOL. Poor thing. Congrats on such an achievement. That's very good.

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:46:37 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I can't seem to break the 759 barrier. Is something preventing this or Is there a key to doing this.

Message Edited by etisher on 06-21-2007 10:03 AM

Sacrifice a couple of cats to Satan?

No, seriously, I think your issue is that you've likely picked all the "low-hanging fruit," as it were. You've probably got your utilization down below 10%, you don't have any recent baddies, and you've got several positive TLs. What's likely holding you back at this point is your credit history isn't long enough, and there's no cure for that except time.

The good news is that the FICO-interest rate curve is asymptotic, and you're just about at the asymptote. In other words, with a 759 FICO, you're getting just about the best rates. Even if you went to 850, you'd only come down a couple tenths of a percentage point on interest rates, at most.

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:13:43 GMT

If your credit report is young, time factor will hold you back. I've seen a girl with $90k in credit lines, multiple Amex, Variety of accounts. Low UTL. She is very young. She started with a bang applying for everything. She still is low-mid 700's. I have not seen her full report, only what she posted on another forum. She is a FICO junkie like us. I however can speak for my self when I was younger. I had a 720 for the longest time. It seemed to never rise. Age was my factor!

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:18:49 GMT

Why do you want a higher score? If you get a new job that pays $10 million a year and pay off all your debts your credit score goes down. Your ability to pay off debt is not a factor in your credit score. The truth is, a credit score is really an “I love debt score”. It tells the banks how profitable you have been to other lenders. When I was 22 I had an “I love debt score” of zero and everyone told me that I needed to build my credit. I heard three things over and over again: 1. You needed to have a credit card in case of an emergency. WRONG! 2. You need to have good credit so you can buy a car with a decent interest rate. WRONG! 3. You have to have a good credit score so you can buy a house. WRONG! At the time I believed all the lies and I built my FICO “I LOVE DEBT SCORE” up to 750 on the backs of credit cards, student loans, a car loan, and finally a 30-year mortgage. What did that get me? Great credit! But I was looking good and broke because all my money was going to the pockets of bankers. A year ago with the help of Dave Ramsey (google his name) I learned that I knew a lot more about money when I was 22 than I did a 32. Over the last 12 months my wife and I have made drastic changes in the way we handle money and we are paying off all our debt. I’ll know that we are succeeding with money when my FICO credit score is zero once again.

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Sat, 18 Aug 2007 23:20:58 GMT

Why wouldnt you want a higher score? I personally have a score in the 820's and i'm trying to get it as high as possible. If you miss 1 payment it gets knocked 100 pts, and anyone can have a bill get lost in the mail. Its good to have a buffer. And as for the score being an "I love debt score". Nonsense! , I have no car payments, no mortgage, no student loans, and we pay our credit cards bills in full every month. Congrats on paying off your debt but aiming for a 0 score would not be wise. Even if you never need a loan and pay cash for everything, you will still get hit with higher insurance rates and may not be able to get that job that you want. Not a very good financial decision imho, unless your one of those that cant be trusted with ANY credit.

Message Edited by snodog on 08-18-2007 04:20 PM

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Sun, 19 Aug 2007 02:38:24 GMT

A few points to consider:

1) You don't have to rack up immense debt to get a decently high FICO score. Having four or five revolving charge accounts with balances in the $5 to $10 range is quite sufficient to build your FICO well into the 700s over time. I have a friend who is 19 with a FICO of 691...her credit history is about a year, and she has a couple credit cards and two store cards.

2) Along about FICO 760 or so, the FICO to interest rate curve goes asymptotic. In other words, increasing your FICO beyond the mid-700s has little effect on your interest rates. Beyond 800 or so, the curve is all but flat. Going from 775 to 850 might get you a mortgage rate 0.1% to 0.2% lower. That's it. The meaningful range for FICO is approximately 500 to 775. Below 500, no one's going to touch you for a mortgage or even most other forms of credit. Beyond 775, it's snob appeal--you're not going to get a significantly better deal beyond that. The most improvement in interest per FICO point is about 600 to 725.

3) All things considered, FICO tends to revert toward the mean, around the 700 mark. When you're 775 and up, FICO looks for an excuse to knock you down. That 30-day late that would have cost you 20 points at 600 will cost you 35 points at 700, 50 points at 775, and probably 75 points at 850. The same principle works in reverse. If you're at 500 and you keep on the straight and narrow for six months and pay your 5 revolving accounts on time, unless you're anchored by a recent baddie, FICO will probably give you a good 50 points of love. At 600, you might get 35 points. At 700, maybe 10 to 15 points. At 800, you'll likely tread water. Why? Reversion to the mean. The further above the mean you are, the harder it gets to climb and the easier it is to get knocked down. The further below...well, you can have a tough time getting the opportunity to prove yourself by getting revolving charge accounts to keep in good standing, but if you do, absent any anchors, you'll find your score rises quickly.

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 17:29:47 GMT

Thanks for all the replies and advice. I would first like to say, this had nothing to do about ego and having a perfect score. I am purchasing a house soon which would require a $650,000 (low in my area) mortgage. A quarter percent interest of savings on a mortgage that high is nothing to shake a stick at. $100 a month going to a college fund is significant. I actually did achieve a score of 761 for one month, the score has since dropped to 757. It seems that the balance decrease -increase on one credit card I have a balance on, influences the score every month. One note of caution to everyone. Be careful with auto payments from credit cards. They can easily be forgotten. Always check your statements, even with a zero balance. Thanks again

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:37:22 GMT

I can only speak from personal experience. My current FICO score, according to a feed from transunion to WaMu is 792. My real score is probably a shade over 800 (I base this upon the fact that when I was looking for my second mortgage that number was about 682, yet the pank "pull" of my numbers was in the 700 - 708 range). OK, I earn a little over 100k a year, plus a 10% bonus, I owe 109k on a 145k mortgage after 3 years, 55k on a 62k second after a little less than a year, I have 247k in open credit cards with a 1 k balance. There are no negatives on my history.

So, the way I see it, based upon my history the secret is 1) earn more 2) get more credit, but don't use it that often (I buy a $10.00 "gift certificate" at Barnes and Nobles or Borders books ever 6 months to exercise my cards and keep them current) 3) when you do use credit, pay it off in full, or as quickly as possible 3) pay off your large ticket items faster than you're supposed to.

But, 759 is an impressive number - depending upon your age.

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:42:40 GMT

"If you get a new job that pays $10 million a year and pay off all your debts your credit score goes down"

That has not been true in my case. When I had some open debt on my credit cards (30k out of 230k), my score was in the 710 range, when it dropped to 15k, my score went to the 720 area and when it dropped to 1k, I bounced to 792...

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 20:03:44 GMT

ScottC wrote:
Why do you want a higher score? If you get a new job that pays $10 million a year and pay off all your debts your credit score goes down. Your ability to pay off debt is not a factor in your credit score. The truth is, a credit score is really an “I love debt score”. It tells the banks how profitable you have been to other lenders.
...
I’ll know that we are succeeding with money when my FICO credit score is zero

Wow! Talk about an off base non sequitur with little basis in reality.

Your FICO score has nothing to do with how profitable you are to banks. The people who are most profitable are those who are teetering on the edge of BK, or who really need to declare BK and any honest economist would tell that person they should.

Your FICO score is all about your ability to pay off debt. The lower your score, the more of a credit risk you are. One can argue over whether certain aspects of FICO scoring are truly indicative of risk, but risk is the name of the game. Fair Isaac has been so successful because lenders know it is generally a good indicator of risk. The CRAs and the banking industry has been searching for it's own algorithms, and some are using alternatives. But the lionshare use FICO.

Most credit freaks have figured out the merits of scoring low APR, high CL, no annual fee CCs--through FCUs and other lenders. There are a number of folks with several hundred thousand dollars in available CL, no annual fees, no balance, and high FICOs.

You appear to have little grasp on FICO scoring if you think you're ever going to get "back" to a FICO score of zero, because it doesn't exist. Those with thin files might have too little info in their file to generate a score, but once you have a score you're unlikely to ever get back to the point where you have no score.

Yeah, I suppose if you did hit the lottery or otherwise score $10 million dollars, you could PIF your mortgage, your car, and have zero debt. But you'd be a daft fool. Any economist with half a brain cell would tell you to refi your house and get a rate down in the low 5's then invest your money. Paying 5 some odd percent interest on your home, but getting 12-18 percent return in the stock market or mutal funds makes sense. PIF your home does not.

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 20:19:46 GMT

You can also think of the FICO score is in a way sort of a certification as to how much "experience" you have at handling different types of debt. A person with no lates and lots of cash might have the ability to pay something back but has no proof of doing so with out showing history. Higher scores = less profitable. The highest scores many times result in 0% apr loans; my favorites. Imagine having a score so high no matter how many loans you take, or how much money you can borrow, your score still stays above 760. Imagine how much further your money can go with out paying higher interest especially on a lower income. People say well you have a 760 so a higher score won't matter. Well that is until you charge $1000 on a CC and your score drops 50 points. Where as an 810 would give a person more room to "use" the credit they worked for. Higher scores = more money in my pocket. To me scores = money.

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 20:21:15 GMT

I like that. FICO score = experience or proof of payment ability. Not how well you can pay loans back or how much money you make.

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:17:23 GMT

I can see both sides. On the one hand, there are people who fall afoul of the FICO scoring system because their income took an unavoidable nosedive, or they had an expense bullet that they just couldn't dodge. Illnesses and concomitant medical bills are probably the best example.

On the other hand, there are people who simply cannot plan ahead and manage money. I've seen people making $150,000 a year--after tax!--who are one step ahead of the repo man. They just don't believe--or don't care--that expenses have a nasty tendency to rise with income unless you discipline yourself...

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Sun, 26 Aug 2007 00:09:06 GMT

I personally have seen a wealthy person with no credit, income $17,000 a month. His Lexus and Jeep SUV repo'd. Their house was $450,000. So the mortgage should not have been a sinking factor... He let the bills pile up on the kitchen table then stuffed them away in a drawer. Watched TV but never felt like being bothered to pay the bills. Lazy. The cars were repo'd because he missed 6-8 months of payments. He had the money, just didn't pay his bills and honestly did not care. He bough a new car. After 3 years of stuff like this, debt collectors finished him off financially.

I'm wondering if his wages were being garnished from past debt before this started? He whet from making $90k to over $200k and his life went down hill from there. But no one lived as well as he did for 2 of those years.

I also watched a friend do the same thing but on a lower scale. Got credit, blew it in just 1 month, had no way of paying it back. But what a great month it was. 7 years to pay for it.

I find this incredibly hard to believe how people can do this. If I didn't see it happen to so many people I might not have believed it. This is a common thing I have heard over the years. I'd ask "Hey, do you want me to get your mail on the way in? (reply)Na, just leave it, it's only bills." Personally I can't handle the stress of waiting for a bill in the mail. I need to pay it online. I even have a paper on the wall with due dates for everything. I am amazed how people just say they can't be bothered, it's just a late fee...

Message Edited by ilovepizza on 08-25-2007 05:09 PM

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:15:41 GMT

Well I am so happy that i got a chance to read this thread there was so many Question's in my head about scoring and and boosting my score after reading this a lot of things have made sense and i do understand what that other member is saying about more credit=more dept no credit= good shape that is so true but sorry to say that some lenders really don't think at all u give him ur APP he punches a few keys takes one look at ur report and boom IF U DON'T HAVE A hight score ur not the person he wants to deal with and that is that !! but let me tell u guys something ((if i may)) i am getting jells here all of u talking hight 700s here i am barley making 600 hhh now u know how i fell thanks to all...

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:20:24 GMT

But income is a HUGE factor when applying for credit. It doesn't matter if the score factors in income because the lenders usually do on their side.

You score = experience. (FICO)
You income = credit lines. (Lenders)

Lenders use both Income and Score to determine credit. Try to apply with $0 income with an 820 FICO and watch how fast you get turned down. lol.

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:22:20 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
But income is a HUGE factor when applying for credit. It doesn't matter if the score factors in income because the lenders usually do on their side.

You score = experience. (FICO)
You income = credit lines. (Lenders)

Lenders use both Income and Score to determine credit. Try to apply with $0 income with an 820 FICO and watch how fast you get turned down. lol.

Just for those thinking about trying it. I will save you the inq on your CR. I applied a few times with $0 for income. All denied. I then had to GW a corrected income so I wouldn't get hit with a second inq.

Re: Score 759 - How do you pass it?

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:12:25 GMT

I got approved for an AmEx Blue with $0 income (I refused to provide the actual amount). I've been an AmEx customer for almost 20 years, so I guess that counted for something.