topic Re: Why, oh Why? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Why, oh Why?

poops — Tue, 17 Jan 2012 22:01:30 GMT

Judgment fell off my EQ FICO report last week. I was waiting to see a score bump. Instead, my score went down from 691 to 678. The only other change to my CR was that my utilization went up 2%. Is that really enough to drag down my score by 13 pts?

A new negative score factor also appeared saying that I have 2 consumer finance accounts. That wasn't on there when I checked my report 2 months ago... And, I have not opened up any new accounts. No new accounts and no new inquiries. I haven't had any inquiries for almost 2 years. My utilization is the only thing that's killing my score...

I don't understand... If I had hair to pull out, I would!

Re: Why, oh Why?

pizzadude — Tue, 17 Jan 2012 22:14:26 GMT

What is your %util showing now ? It is certainly possible that increased utlization could lower your score like this.

The "consumer finance" factor is one of those factors that FICO throws out when it doesn't have any other factors to ding you, IMO.

Also, you may have be "rebuckted" ~ so you might initially lose a few points, but you will be able to achieve a higher score now, so that is a good thing....

Re: Why, oh Why?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Jan 2012 22:18:27 GMT

Aw. Hate when that happens.

If that was your only judgment/pr etc., and it fell off, you probably got rebucketed.

That means you're being compared to a new group of folks - kinda like going from the "low" reading group to the "average" reading group (or some such).

So your competition is a bit stiffer.

The good news is that rebucketing often means a new score range with a higher upper end is now available to you. Gotta love that.

The reason codes change, then, too. You probably lost the reason code for having the judgment. So the next one down on the list pops up into view. The 2 consumer finance accounts it notes have been there all along, not necessarily recently opened.

When your utilization went up by 2%, what was it before and what is it now? Sometimes you can jump over a "boundary" and it can make a difference. Or you can have more accounts reporting a balance - that can change scores sometimes as well.

Congrats on that judgment falling off!

Re: Why, oh Why?

poops — Tue, 17 Jan 2012 23:12:49 GMT

My utilization 2 months ago was 39%. My utilization last week was 41%. Had some home improvement work and an adoption that we decided to put on 0% credit cards. My goal is to get the util down to <10% by the Summer.

Can someone provide some more info about rebucketing...? Maybe gimme a link to do some reading... Thanks!

Re: Why, oh Why?

Booner72 — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 01:39:00 GMT

I feel your misery. When my judgment was removed, I got THREE LOUSY POINTS. Which I guess is better than your case in the short term, but at least hopefully you got rebucketed.

Re: Why, oh Why?

IOBA — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 01:58:58 GMT

AAofA buckets

0-3 yrs

3-5 yrs

5-8 yrs

8-12 yrs

12+ yrs

Source - Experian

Re: Why, oh Why?

IOBA — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 02:03:40 GMT

When you get AAoA rebucketed, it means your AAofA has moved from one category to the next. Now you are at the bottom of the bucket being compared to other consumers in that same bucket.

What happens for most people is the longer they are in that bucket, the more their score goes up.

When the move to the next bucket, their FICO score may drop as you are at the bottom of the bucket.

Cycle repeats.

With FICO, nothing is for sure, but this is what we suspect is really happening.

Re: Why, oh Why?

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 02:46:39 GMT

Not all your negatives display, especially here.

On a lender's pull, like a mortgage pull, it will display the top four negatives, if you have negatives.

Here on myFICO, it displays fewer and fewer the higher you go, essentially because the lower they rank, the less effect they have on your score.

I'd say that the consumer finance account ding was there all along, and when the judgment fell off, it now displays. It's not a new negative, just a newly-displayed negative.

The combination of now being in a "clean" score bucket (score card), plus possibly a ding from crossing the 40% util mark might have done it. People with clean histories often see a higher penalty for high util, and 41% is definitely high.

When you pulled your new score, what were the negatives, listed in order, on screen 2 on the left? (The positives are nice for warm fuzzies, but they're otherwise pretty meaningless.)

Re: Why, oh Why?

poops — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 02:52:54 GMT

According to the FICO EQ CR I pulled on 11/29/11, my AAoA was 12 yrs. When I last pulled my FICO EQ CR, 1/11/12, it was still listed as 12 yrs... My score was higher on 11/29/11 with a judgment still being listed. On 1/11/12, the judgment had been removed and my score had decreased by 13 points. As I mentioned above, the only difference was an increase in utilization of 2%.

Is there another rebucketing category besides AAoA?

Re: Why, oh Why?

poops — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 02:59:55 GMT

@haulingthescoreup wrote:
Not all your negatives display, especially here.

On a lender's pull, like a mortgage pull, it will display the top four negatives, if you have negatives.

Here on myFICO, it displays fewer and fewer the higher you go, essentially because the lower they rank, the less effect they have on your score.

I'd say that the consumer finance account ding was there all along, and when the judgment fell off, it now displays. It's not a new negative, just a newly-displayed negative.

The combination of now being in a "clean" score bucket (score card), plus possibly a ding from crossing the 40% util mark might have done it. People with clean histories often see a higher penalty for high util, and 41% is definitely high.

When you pulled your new score, what were the negatives, listed in order, on screen 2 on the left? (The positives are nice for warm fuzzies, but they're otherwise pretty meaningless.)

1. Heavy use of available revolving credit

2. Recently missed payment (30 day late from 10/2010)

3. Too many CC'c carrying balances

4. Have consumer finance account

Also, when I pulled my EQ CR from FICO on 11/29/11, the judgment was listed as the #1 reason my score was what it was... Logically, I thought that once the judgment was removed, my score would get a nice upward bump...

Re: Why, oh Why?

MarineVietVet — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 03:59:00 GMT

@IOBA wrote:
AAofA buckets
0-3 yrs
3-5 yrs
5-8 yrs
8-12 yrs
12+ yrs

Source - Experian

I would caution you though to remember that EX sells FAKO scores and that often means worthless information and advice. I just don't know how accurate those AAoA buckets are.

From a BK years ago to:
EX - 3/11 pulled by lender- 835, EQ - 2/11-816, TU - 2/11-782

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem".

Re: Why, oh Why?

CS800 — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:28:08 GMT

@poops wrote:
Judgment fell off my EQ FICO report last week. I was waiting to see a score bump. Instead, my score went down from 691 to 678. The only other change to my CR was that my utilization went up 2%. Is that really enough to drag down my score by 13 pts?

A new negative score factor also appeared saying that I have 2 consumer finance accounts. That wasn't on there when I checked my report 2 months ago... And, I have not opened up any new accounts. No new accounts and no new inquiries. I haven't had any inquiries for almost 2 years. My utilization is the only thing that's killing my score...

I don't understand... If I had hair to pull out, I would!

On EQ, I had my util go from 7 to 10% and I got an 8 points drop ;everything else staying the same.

Re: Why, oh Why?

haulingthescoreup — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 04:15:30 GMT

@poops wrote:
@haulingthescoreup wrote:
Not all your negatives display, especially here.

On a lender's pull, like a mortgage pull, it will display the top four negatives, if you have negatives.

Here on myFICO, it displays fewer and fewer the higher you go, essentially because the lower they rank, the less effect they have on your score.

I'd say that the consumer finance account ding was there all along, and when the judgment fell off, it now displays. It's not a new negative, just a newly-displayed negative.

The combination of now being in a "clean" score bucket (score card), plus possibly a ding from crossing the 40% util mark might have done it. People with clean histories often see a higher penalty for high util, and 41% is definitely high.

When you pulled your new score, what were the negatives, listed in order, on screen 2 on the left? (The positives are nice for warm fuzzies, but they're otherwise pretty meaningless.)
1. Heavy use of available revolving credit
2. Recently missed payment (30 day late from 10/2010)
3. Too many CC'c carrying balances
4. Have consumer finance account

Also, when I pulled my EQ CR from FICO on 11/29/11, the judgment was listed as the #1 reason my score was what it was... Logically, I thought that once the judgment was removed, my score would get a nice upward bump...

OK, so:

High revolving util: This probably didn't hurt you as much when you had the judgment, because people with judgments are more likely to owe more money, so you looked better than them. Now that you're being compared to those with (mostly) clean history, the 41% util makes you a higher risk.
Recent 30-day late: well, at least it's over 12 months, and it was only a 30. Once it goes over 24, I don't think it will have much impact at all. (That's because it's a 30. Don't expect the same degree of mercy with bigger lates.) Not great, but not disastrous. Don't do it again.
Too many CC's with balances: this is the one that we address with the FICO Scoring Game. Unless you're actually carrying balances from month to month, which you never want to do unless it's at 0% or something, you want to minimize the number of accounts with balances. Here's how you play the Game: go online on each account 3-4 days before its next statement is due. Pay it off. Go back on the morning of the day that the statement will post and pay again, if anything else popped up. Do this with all your cards, except for one. (You lose points if they all report $0. Pause while some readers go pour themselves another drink and contemplate this.) On this one card, go online 3-4 days before the statement date, and pay off all but $20 or so. Allow that amount to report (show up on your statement), and then pay it off. <--It's really easy to forget to make this second payment, and if you do, you'll have an internal late. Not one that gets reported, but it'll goober up your APR's etc. No, you don't have to play the game; yes, you'll probably get addicted to the improved scores that result.
Presence of a consumer finance account: eh. Don't worry about it. If it's number 4 on your list, it's not carrying a lot of weight.