topic Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

Anonymous — Sun, 29 Jan 2012 16:37:00 GMT

I recently applied and received a Discover more card. I checked my Equifax score here on my fico before applying and it was 797. I applied for the Discover card on the same day, Well I got a letter with my new discover cards saying my Equifax score is 748 at the time of application. The day after the new inquiry I got a score watch alert saying my score dropped one point to 796.

My question is, why the 50 point difference between myfico and Discover? They both pulled Equifax.

-TBC

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

pizzadude — Sun, 29 Jan 2012 16:57:31 GMT

Did Discover state that their score was a FICO score, and was the scoring range 300 - 850 ?

It is possible that Discover pulled a bankcard variation of EQ FICO. The FICO versions sold at MyFICO are "Classic" versions.

Also they might have used a newer version of FICO, like '08.

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

Anonymous — Sun, 29 Jan 2012 17:00:52 GMT

It says your credit score Fico 748 source: Equifax and then it has the date.

TBC

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

pizzadude — Sun, 29 Jan 2012 17:03:47 GMT

Do you have any negative CC accounts at all showing on your CR ? If so then I would suspect the difference is that Discover pulled an industry~specific FICO score.

If you do not then they must be using a newer FICO score model, like the 08 version....

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

Anonymous — Sun, 29 Jan 2012 17:06:10 GMT

No I have zero negatives. I thought TU was the only one with different versions 98, 04 ,08.

TBC

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

pizzadude — Sun, 29 Jan 2012 17:08:58 GMT

Must be a newer score model. No, the different FICO scoring models ( 98, 04, 08 ) are used across all the CRAs.

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

Anonymous — Sun, 29 Jan 2012 17:12:42 GMT

Boy they like to keep us guessing don't they. Well if nothing else this post may help someone in the future. 50 points is a big difference.

TBC

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

pizzadude — Sun, 29 Jan 2012 17:16:49 GMT

Yeah I agree it is frustrating; 50 points could be a large enough difference to disqualify you if you were home shopping, or could vastly increase your interest rate for auto loans.

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

Anonymous — Sun, 29 Jan 2012 19:37:11 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I recently applied and received a Discover more card. I checked my Equifax score here on my fico before applying and it was 797. I applied for the Discover card on the same day, Well I got a letter with my new discover cards saying my Equifax score is 748 at the time of application. The day after the new inquiry I got a score watch alert saying my score dropped one point to 796.

My question is, why the 50 point difference between myfico and Discover? They both pulled Equifax.

-TBC

It's hard to say why the difference. Discover very well may pull the newest version of Equifax (It's called Beacon 9.0 by the way).

The EQ version here is the older Beacon 5.0. Or it could be some kind of credit card enhanced version of EQ.

From a BK years ago to:
EX - 3/11 pulled by lender- 835, EQ - 2/11-816, TU - 2/11-782

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem".

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

jello77 — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 03:47:09 GMT

This issue of two very different FICO scores reported at the same time seriously confused me until I learned about all the different FICO variations.

Based on my understanding of it, here is a summary of the FICO variations:

There are three different FICO "editions" currently in common use: 98, 04, and 08

Each edition has a "classic" version, plus several "industry enhanced" sub-versions for different types of lenders such as credit cards, insurance, mortgage, and auto loans.

Each credit agency (Transunion, Equifax, and Experian) uses a customized version of each FICO edition and each classic and industry sub-version.

Each edition and each sub-version from each credit agency will result in a different score.

Transunion scores purchased from MyFICO use the "classic" version of Transunion's customized version of the 98 FICO edition (commonly called TU-98).

Equifax scores purchased from MyFICO use the "classic" version of Equifax's customized version of the 04 FICO edition (Equifax calls this Beacon 5.0).

Most lenders are said to currently use the 04 edition of FICO. Some still use the 98 edition, and very few use the 08 edition.

Walmart provides its credit card users with a free monthly update of their Transunion FICO score using the 08 edition. But Walmart does not use the 08 edition is making credit decisions.

Citibank recently announced it was planning to change from the 04 edition to the 08 edition, and Chase said it was also considering changing to the 08 edition.

In addition to all the FICO variations described above, there is also a "NextGen" edition of FICO. It uses a scale of 150 to 950 and was introduced by FICO as a major improvement over all previous editions. But it has been adopted by few if any lenders.

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

GregB — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 02:24:01 GMT

That is mostly correct except for the statement about most lenders use the 04 version. That IS very accurate for mortgages but not for other loans.

I would say most of the big CC lenders and most of the banks doing auto loans, etc are using 08 versions. Smaller aren't updating as quickly. Next Gen was part of the attempt to qualify unattractive borrowers for mortgages. That went away with much of the other crazyness of the housing bubble.

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

jello77 — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 17:32:39 GMT

GregB,

Thanks for the additional info.

Below are links to two recent articles that discuss FICO 8. I have excerpted the most interesting parts.

From what these articles say, it appears that American Express currently uses FICO 8, Citibank just recently started using it, and Bank of America is "in the process of implementing it."

The best news is that FICO has plans "to make FICO 8 scores available for purchase" by consumers in the future.

---------------------------------

Sept 2011

http://money.msn.com/credit-rating/new-credit-score-could-help-millions-credit.aspx

Excerpts:

Major lenders have been unusually slow to switch to the new scoring model [FICO 8]......most major lenders still have yet to adopt it.

Figuring out exactly what's happening with FICO 8 is an exercise akin to reading tea leaves. Try calling FICO to ask how implementation of FICO 8 is going, and they say you should call the credit bureaus. Call the bureaus, and they refer you to the banks. Call the banks, and they refuse to talk, saying their scoring models are proprietary.

So how can we tell that implementation of FICO 8 is going slowly?

FICO issued a news release in June 2011 trumpeting the fact that Citibank had implemented the new model......By trumpeting Citi's adoption of FICO 8, Fair Isaac made a tacit admission that no other big bank -- Chase, Wells Fargo or Bank of America -- has made the switch. Together, these four companies dominate the credit card market and control sizable chunks of many other lending industries, including consumer loans.

At least one other major bank [Bank of America] plans to switch to the new model, but the details are vague."We're in the process of implementing it, but I wouldn't have any more details to share," said a spokeswoman for Bank of America.

---------------------------------

July 2011

http://www.mybanktracker.com/bank-news/2011/07/27/fico-8-credit-scores-laws-help-expedite-standardization/

Excerpts:

An American Express spokesperson said that the company used FICO 8 scores as part of the credit card application approval process.

Bank of America, Chase, and Discover.......did not say they used the FICO 8 score to determine creditworthiness.

Capital One did not reply to a request for comment.

Currently, over 3,500 lenders in the U.S. use FICO 8 scores, according to FICO.

According to FICO, the FICO 8 score does not deviate from the previous formula by more than 20 points.

FICO stated that lenders are testing the new score model and the company plans on working with credit reporting agencies to make FICO 8 scores available for purchase as lender adoption increases.

---------------------------------

I found it especially interesting that FICO says FICO 8 scores do not deviate from the previous formula by more than 20 points. I assume by "previous formula" it is referring to FICO 04.

I know that my Transunion FICO 98 score obtained from MyFICO is currently 783, and my Transunion FICO 08 score obtained on the same day from Walmart is 822, a difference of 39 points.

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

GregB — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:47:31 GMT

I can confirm the Amex use with a high degree of certainty since I just added a personal Amex. I received the following info with the approval. With the same info on my report, my EX FICO II (FICO 04) gave me a 765. We can tell from the 300-850 range that they did not use a CC Industry version. The "key factors" also don't quite match my previous version EX FICO.

The only difference between the data on my EX FICO report from EX and the one Amex would have pulled is the one from EX was a few days later so it had the additional Inq from the Amex app. Since I already had 1 Inq from 12/15/2011 and 1-2 are supposedly scored the same, I am assuming the data was functionally identical.

In case anyone is wondering I receive a EX FICO II report from EX as part of an annual review by EX. I was hoping for a EX FICO III but maybe next year.

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

CS800 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 00:43:24 GMT

@pizzadude wrote:

Did Discover state that their score was a FICO score, and was the scoring range 300 - 850 ?

It is possible that Discover pulled a bankcard variation of EQ FICO. The FICO versions sold at MyFICO are "Classic" versions.

Also they might have used a newer version of FICO, like '08.

I remember specifically asking the credit people what FICO version they used ,they said the latest one. So from this there was a i think 30 points difference between myfico and Discover. The discover was higher.

Anyone else can confirm that with Discover?

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

CS800 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 00:59:18 GMT

Excellent thread.

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

Anonymous — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 16:35:55 GMT

I just dug up this range info:

Transunion Classic 04 FICO 309-839

Equifax BEACON 5 FICO 334-818

Experian Fair Isaac V2 FICO 320-844

TBC

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

GregB — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:16:25 GMT

I didn't want to post that because I thought one of those might be proprietary and not available to consumers. As long as you have posted it, I will confirm that to be exactly correct in all six numbers.

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

Anonymous — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:24:15 GMT

My google-fu is getting stronger.

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

vanillabean — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:39:23 GMT

@GregB wrote:
I didn't want to post that because I thought one of those might be proprietary and not available to consumers. As long as you have posted it, I will confirm that to be exactly correct in all six numbers.

And yet DW at EQ 817 had two balances reporting, no installment loan, and her oldest account was not yet 30 years.

Re: Myfico Equifax 797 Vs. Discover Equifax score 748?

GregB — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:54:47 GMT

One of the issues with Beacon 5.0 has been that the distribution of scores looks a lot like the others until you get to the 800-819 range. It is very high. It looks like the total number for the 800-850 group of other scores. The assumption is that it is just as easy to get above 800 as the others but that progress stops at some point.

The documents distributed by EQ for Beacon 9 explain that they have fixed this in the new version. They have the same number 800-850 that were all stacked into 800-818 in Beacon 5.0. Beacon 5.0 is base on FICO 04. Beacon 9 is based on FICO 8.