topic Re: Mean and Standard Deviation of scores in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Mean and Standard Deviation of scores

Goal810 — Sat, 03 Mar 2012 19:26:24 GMT

I recently got all 3 credit scores

Equifax Beacon 5.0 Facta

Experian Fair Issac V2

Trans Union Fico Risk Score Classic 04

and noticed that the score range is different for all 3, with the high values being 818, 844, and 839. So scores from 1 company to the next cannot be directly compared since the scales are different. Does anyone know if the mean and standard deviation of each of the 3 scores is available, so that it would be possible to compare scores?

Thanks!

Re: Mean and Standard Deviation of scores

Goal810 — Sat, 03 Mar 2012 19:35:24 GMT

I'm not sure if any of the companies publish this, but when you get your score report, it tells you what your percentile is. So I am curious, for each of the 3, what would be the score that would correlate to the top 2%? So it would say 98% on your score report, I am sure we have these persons here on this forum!

What are the percentiles for the common goals persons throw around on this board?

Re: Mean and Standard Deviation of scores

crunching_numbers — Sat, 03 Mar 2012 20:31:55 GMT

@Goal810 wrote:
I recently got all 3 credit scores

Equifax Beacon 5.0 Facta
Experian Fair Issac V2
Trans Union Fico Risk Score Classic 04

and noticed that the score range is different for all 3, with the high values being 818, 844, and 839. So scores from 1 company to the next cannot be directly compared since the scales are different. Does anyone know if the mean and standard deviation of each of the 3 scores is available, so that it would be possible to compare scores?

Thanks!

Goal810, I am not sure what you are referring to when you are talking about "high values". All FICO scores have a range of 300 - 850. The difference in scores from CB to CB is from the way the data is classified by each bureau, items present on the reports of each bureau, etc. Some creditors do not report to every bureau, and sometimes bad information will appear on only one or two of the reports.

Re: Mean and Standard Deviation of scores

Goal810 — Sat, 03 Mar 2012 20:14:10 GMT

Here is what it gives as the score ranges:

Equifax Beacon 5.0 Facta: 334-818

Experian Fair Issac V2: 320-844

Trans Union Fico Risk Score Classic 04: 309-839

Re: Mean and Standard Deviation of scores

Cdnewmanpac — Sat, 03 Mar 2012 22:20:22 GMT

Fair Isaac no longer published statistical data about their scoring systems, as they consider them "proprietary". I'm not aware of them ever publishing a mean. The last published median score was 723 (I think in 2006). I think what your numbers show is that, with all the customizations, permutations and scoring systems available to lenders (not to mention in house scoring systems), the chance that any one score you obtain (even from myFico) will match the score your lender obtains is pretty low. Even if both use Beacon 5, they may pull the data from different data packagers (not sure the official term, but companies that serve as intermediaries between the original credit reporting agencies and the lenders) and thus may generate different scores. I get my equifax report both through MyFICO and USAA (administered by experian). The details contained in the report are substantially different, even if pulled within an hour of each other. When my mortgage went to final underwriting last April, the equifax score and report my lender pulled differed from my MyFICO score and report I pulled simultaneously (on my laptop in his office), even though both were listed as beacon 5.0. Turns out they got their credit report data from trilegent and then applied the FICO beacon 5.0 score to that data, whereas MyFICO got the data elsewhere. Personally, I've decided that I won't focus on scores until every conceivable scoring model (myFICO, creditsesame, creditkarma, USAA, Bob's donut shop and credit scoring service, etc.) are all >720, at which point it shouldn't matter.

Re: Mean and Standard Deviation of scores

GregB — Sun, 04 Mar 2012 01:39:48 GMT

Yes, you have found the exact highest and lowest possible scores for each of those FICO scores, which have a design range of 300-850.

DON'T assume that the mean and median score vary much between the three CRAs. There may be substantial variation for someone in the 2nd percentile of the 98th percentile but for 90% of the world there will be very small differences based on score range. There will be a VASTLY larger difference based upon the ways each CRA tweaks the data going in - such as one calling a HELOC a mortgage account if it is over $30K and another only calling it a mortgage if it is over $50K, etc. etc. etc.

Re: Mean and Standard Deviation of scores

MattH — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 00:29:34 GMT

As a former academic, I think of the various flavors of FICO score (different credit reporting agencies, Auto-enhanced versus mortgages, older versus newer versions, etc.) as being like several instructors teaching the same college course in the same semester. Been there, done that: no matter how hard we tried to be fair and consistent in how we assigned grades to our students, inevitably there were differences!

A while back I posted a table comparing percentiles for FICO and FAKO scores using the best information I could find at that time. Also this posting has a link to an interesting study of credit scoring by the Federal Reserve:

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/Formula-for-converting-the-Vantange-score-into-a-rough-FICO/m-p/667574/highlight/true#M46455

Re: Mean and Standard Deviation of scores

Goal810 — Tue, 06 Mar 2012 04:39:29 GMT

I would still like to know what the top 2% is for each of the 3, since percentiles are given on some reports, any members care to post if you are at that level? I'm sure there must be several on this forum.

From that older data it looks like over 800 was the top 13% but for equifax it would probably be a lot higher since the high score is lower, and maybe the opposite for the other 2.

Re: Mean and Standard Deviation of scores

vanillabean — Tue, 06 Mar 2012 18:53:07 GMT

@Goal810 wrote:
I would still like to know what the top 2% is for each of the 3, since percentiles are given on some reports, any members care to post if you are at that level?

Let's say the upper range of the EQ Beacon 5.0 scale ends at 818 (there is some indication that it does, but we don't know for sure). And let's say that anyone 819-850 is crunched down to 818, along the lines of what GregB said about 3rd-97th percentile not being affected.

Yes, I have seen 3-4 at at 816 in this forum. DW's 817 is at the 97th percentile (798 at 88th, 801 at 90th, 808 at at 94th, 814 at 96th), which aligns with the above (but doesn't imply though whether her EQ can exceed 818). Once a paid-down balance reports, we'll see.

Re: Mean and Standard Deviation of scores

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Mar 2012 19:14:30 GMT

TU Classiv 04 = 309-839

EQ Beacon 5.0= 334-818

EXP Fair Isaac V2= 320-844

From: http://www.mlslistings.com/Understanding-Credit-Scores

TBC

(Edited to edit the edit)

Re: Mean and Standard Deviation of scores

Goal810 — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:52:39 GMT

I'm pretty sure 818 is the highest score for Equifax and this agrees with the previous post here.

I am not sure what you mean by 819-850 being crunched down, it is probably just not possible to get a score in this range based on the formula they are using. I'd be really surprised if 817 is at the 97th percentile for Equifax, if it is out of 818 it should be 99th percentile or 99.9th percentile. Is this based on her score report?

A lot of persons here aim for a particular score (eg 800), but an 800 from one of the credit agencies is very different than an 800 from another, so it would be nice to have a mean and SD so they could be compared.

Re: Mean and Standard Deviation of scores

vanillabean — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 02:07:26 GMT

Re: Mean and Standard Deviation of scores

Goal810 — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 02:09:29 GMT

Awesome, thanks for posting. Very surprising from a statistical sense, but sheds a lot of light on the scoring process.

Re: Mean and Standard Deviation of scores

vanillabean — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 02:30:44 GMT

Re: Mean and Standard Deviation of scores

Anonymous — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 10:35:07 GMT

Wow very nice! Only one point away from PERFECT. So is it lonely at the top?

TBC

@Anonymous-own-fico wrote: