topic Re: My score is constantly changing. in Understanding FICO® Scoring

My score is constantly changing.

DaveSignal — Sat, 19 May 2012 18:17:32 GMT

By "constantly", I mean 4 times in less than 1 month of subscribing to score watch:

There have been no major changes to my credit report other than 2 inquiries and a new account, but those are the 3 alerts (675 score) listed where my score didn't change at all.

Is this normal?

Re: My score is constantly changing.

Anonymous — Sat, 19 May 2012 18:40:17 GMT

My bet it is balances on cards updating. Do you have a bunch of crediT cards

Re: My score is constantly changing.

DaveSignal — Sat, 19 May 2012 18:49:41 GMT

Yeah, I have lots. I have been disputing negative items too. Could it be the disputes?

Re: My score is constantly changing.

MarineVietVet — Sat, 19 May 2012 18:51:57 GMT

@DaveSignal wrote:
Yeah, I have lots. I have been disputing negative items too. Could it be the disputes?

Do you consider these negative items inaccurate or do you just want them gone?

Re: My score is constantly changing.

DaveSignal — Sat, 19 May 2012 18:58:18 GMT

@MarineVietVet wrote:
Do you consider these negative items inaccurate or do you just want them gone?

I am disputing everything. This is the method advocated by my superiors in the United States Army. What is your better method?

Re: My score is constantly changing.

MarineVietVet — Sat, 19 May 2012 19:04:47 GMT

@DaveSignal wrote:

I am disputing everything. This is the method advocated by my superiors in the United States Army. What is your better method?

Only information that you truly feel is incorrect should be disputed and discussion of disputing everything is a violation of the forum's Credit repair Discussion Guidelines which state:

The only credit repair discussions allowed in FICO Forums are ones that exchange information on how to correct or remove real errors from your credit report – not accurate information that you want to get rid of because it may be negatively affecting your credit score.

So with all due respect to your superiors they are wrong in this instance as far as the standards of myFICO are concerned.

Re: My score is constantly changing.

DaveSignal — Sat, 19 May 2012 19:09:39 GMT

In that case, everything I am disputing is partially inaccurate. Could the disputes result in the score changes considering that the dispute usually ends in no change?

Re: My score is constantly changing.

DaveSignal — Sat, 19 May 2012 19:54:05 GMT

UPDATE: I found a blog post here that states that an active dispute WILL lower EQ FICO while in progress. This is good to know for the future if I ever need good credit for something.

Re: My score is constantly changing.

MarineVietVet — Sat, 19 May 2012 20:01:02 GMT

@DaveSignal wrote:
UPDATE: I found a blog post here that states that an active dispute WILL lower EQ FICO while in progress. This is good to know for the future if I ever need good credit for something.

Just be aware that disputing can have unintended consequences.

1) Disputing can cause your score to drop. A dispute removes certain aspects on OC TLs per FICO like your balance or CL and that can negatively impact your score if it actually helped your util.

2) Disputing can lead to the early demise of an OC TL. While that may sound good if you have a CO or a TL with a bunch of lates, if that TL was one of your oldest or helped your AAoA, then it's depature can possibly drop your score if the history helped more than the baddie hurt. Also, some OCs will automatically remove the negative aspects at the 7 yr mark and it could have reported as a positive for a while longer.

3) Disputing can lead the OC or CA to report worse than what they were before. If an OC wasn't reporting every late or if the OC/CA had not updated in a while, then they can update their reporting and that can cause your FICO scores to drop.

4) Disputing will almost always lead to increased collection activity if the debt is unpaid, including increased letters, calls, or increased risk of being sued.

5) Disputing makes it harder to get a PFD or GW accepted. I recall calling for a GW for Verizon once and they said that since I disputed an accurate account then they wouldn't grant the GW (though I don't they they'd accept it anyway).

6) Disputing can lead to a fraud alert in some instances if you dispute as "not mine" (I'm sure it depends on the OC/CA).

7) Disputing takes too much time. Sending a GW or calling in a GW if paid or a PFD if unpaid takes a week tops. A dispute can take up to 30-45 days.

8) When disputing, you typically only have one shot before being labeled a "frivolous disputer" by the CRAs (EX in particular).

9) A dispute comment can lead to a mortgage denial. YMMV on the lender.

10) A dispute can lead to a split file (primarily EQ).

Re: My score is constantly changing.

Anonymous — Sun, 20 May 2012 04:20:30 GMT

@MarineVietVet wrote:
@DaveSignal wrote:
UPDATE: I found a blog post here that states that an active dispute WILL lower EQ FICO while in progress. This is good to know for the future if I ever need good credit for something.
Just be aware that disputing can have unintended consequences.

1) Disputing can cause your score to drop. A dispute removes certain aspects on OC TLs per FICO like your balance or CL and that can negatively impact your score if it actually helped your util.

2) Disputing can lead to the early demise of an OC TL. While that may sound good if you have a CO or a TL with a bunch of lates, if that TL was one of your oldest or helped your AAoA, then it's depature can possibly drop your score if the history helped more than the baddie hurt. Also, some OCs will automatically remove the negative aspects at the 7 yr mark and it could have reported as a positive for a while longer.

3) Disputing can lead the OC or CA to report worse than what they were before. If an OC wasn't reporting every late or if the OC/CA had not updated in a while, then they can update their reporting and that can cause your FICO scores to drop.

4) Disputing will almost always lead to increased collection activity if the debt is unpaid, including increased letters, calls, or increased risk of being sued.

5) Disputing makes it harder to get a PFD or GW accepted. I recall calling for a GW for Verizon once and they said that since I disputed an accurate account then they wouldn't grant the GW (though I don't they they'd accept it anyway).

6) Disputing can lead to a fraud alert in some instances if you dispute as "not mine" (I'm sure it depends on the OC/CA).

7) Disputing takes too much time. Sending a GW or calling in a GW if paid or a PFD if unpaid takes a week tops. A dispute can take up to 30-45 days.

8) When disputing, you typically only have one shot before being labeled a "frivolous disputer" by the CRAs (EX in particular).

9) A dispute comment can lead to a mortgage denial. YMMV on the lender.

10) A dispute can lead to a split file (primarily EQ).

These items don't seem to be mentioned enough... The first "vibe" I got around these parts is that many folks just dispute everything, in hopes that something will stick. Thanks for validating my suspicion that disputing is really just a tool to deal with inaccurate info.

Re: My score is constantly changing.

Anonymous — Sun, 20 May 2012 04:19:54 GMT

Dave, to answer your original question, I've seen the same thing quite frequently. Consider each of your accounts reports an updated balance at different times each month, and it's easy to see why a score can have various changes like you're seeing.

Re: My score is constantly changing.

rckstrscott — Sun, 20 May 2012 07:41:00 GMT

@DaveSignal wrote:
By "constantly", I mean 4 times in less than 1 month of subscribing to score watch:

There have been no major changes to my credit report other than 2 inquiries and a new account, but those are the 3 alerts (675 score) listed where my score didn't change at all.
Is this normal?

Think of it like weight loss... if you have multiple factors (lots of cards updating, disputes in progress ect ect) -- dont' worry about the every day flux, just check again next month to see the end result of the months work..

If you want to check everyday, understand this will happen

-scott

Re: My score is constantly changing.

llecs — Sun, 20 May 2012 14:01:38 GMT

cassembler wrote:

These items don't seem to be mentioned enough... The first "vibe" I got around these parts is that many folks just dispute everything, in hopes that something will stick. Thanks for validating my suspicion that disputing is really just a tool to deal with inaccurate info.

While these forums tend to come down on disputing (for legal reasons...see the CROA), there are other forums who actively promote disputing of everything, and ethics be darned. And they are idiots too. When I first entered repair I took advice from another forum and someone told be to dispute everything. That screwed up my credit for most of the reasons that MVV posted.

I'd argue even if it is reporting inaccurately, then make a dispute your very last option. There are countless posts on here where the poster made the case that a given TL is reporting a misplaced late or whatever, and the end result after the dispute resulted in a score loss because the TL was removed or the OC felt the need to add more lates post-dispute. Or others where a baddie's ownership was questionable, and disputed, and resulted in lawsuit instead. There are definitely steps you can take, via fact-finding, before a dispute should even be considered.

Re: My score is constantly changing.

DaveSignal — Sun, 20 May 2012 14:01:39 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
These items don't seem to be mentioned enough... The first "vibe" I got around these parts is that many folks just dispute everything, in hopes that something will stick. Thanks for validating my suspicion that disputing is really just a tool to deal with inaccurate info.

I already said that everything currently negative on my report is inaccurate. Acutally, there is something inaccurate about EVERYTHING on my report, just I am only disputing the negative items.

My credit repair journey started when the US Army told me, "you need to fix this immediately. Do these things now." I did what I was told and satisfied the government requirements.

I have since been working on my score for fun. I don't need good credit. I already have multiple high-limit prime credit cards. I already have a nice place to live. I already drive a great car. FICO has become like a game for me.... I like to play this game in my free time and try to accumulate as many points as I can.

My FICO has increased 100 points in the last 1 year. This is by continuing to follow the first advice given by my superiors. My superiors don't care, nor do they give me advice, for the purpose of following the forum guidelines at myFICO. They helped assist me raise my FICO score as fast as possible. It absolutely worked, and I have done nothing illegal.

Re: My score is constantly changing.

DaveSignal — Sun, 20 May 2012 14:12:39 GMT

@rckstrscott wrote:
Think of it like weight loss... if you have multiple factors (lots of cards updating, disputes in progress ect ect) -- dont' worry about the every day flux, just check again next month to see the end result of the months work..

If you want to check everyday, understand this will happen

-scott

Yeah, I think its a combination of credit card updates and active disputes, but score watch sends me an alert every time, so I kind of have to look at it. I think next month will be a good month for me.

Re: My score is constantly changing.

llecs — Sun, 20 May 2012 14:15:59 GMT

DaveSignal wrote:

My FICO has increased 100 points in the last 1 year. This is by continuing to follow the first advice given by my superiors. My superiors don't care, nor do they give me advice, for the purpose of following the forum guidelines at myFICO. They helped assist me raise my FICO score as fast as possible. It absolutely worked, and I have done nothing illegal.

Even if that advice was given by your superiors, that same advice cannot be suggested or advocated on these forums, lest your advice gets zapped or edited. The Credit Repair Discussion Guidelines, Terms of Service, and User Guidelines prohibit the promotion of certain types of credit repair, like disputing accounts that are yours. Like the US Army, there are rules and regs to follow on myFICO. These are in place because myFICO provides reports and any advice that demonstrate credit repair advice must adhere to the Credit Repair Organizations Act. In other words, myFICO tends to be strict when it comes to post content.

Re: My score is constantly changing.

DaveSignal — Sun, 20 May 2012 14:35:31 GMT

@llecs wrote:
that same advice cannot be suggested or advocated on these forums, lest your advice gets zapped or edited.

I understand. Actually, I am stopping all of my disputes as of now. (Except for military star, which I just disputed because aafes hasn't updated the balance in 7 months and isn't updating as per my call-in or chat requests).

It got me so far, but disputing is no longer helping my credit journey. In fact, I don't know if it ever really did help me that much anyway. I am at a point where sometimes an account that doesn't appear to change in any significant way causes a score drop or increase. It makes no sense.

The biggest score increases I have ever received resulted from getting new credit cards and reducing utilization. Which is the main advice I give people.

Re: My score is constantly changing.

DaveSignal — Thu, 24 May 2012 23:08:11 GMT

I have figured it out. It is absolutely disputes that are causing the drastic drops in my score. On 5/19, the score drop is result of me opening a DV request for a paid Chase account that was charged off in 2009. I had since said that I was stopping all disputes, but there was one last one that bothered me: It was a Citifinancial paid charge-off from 2008 that was reporting new CO delinquencies for each month since that I filed a dispute against it, making it look as though my delinquencies were much more recent than the actual date that the account was closed. So I decided to do one last dispute, stating, "this history makes it seem as though my delinquencies are more recent than they actually are. the account was closed years ago." As soon as that account went into dispute status, my score dropped again. I have come to realize that merely putting an account into this dispute status can cause as much as a 20 point FICO drop.... evidence that this FICO algorithm is absolutely ridiculous, but this is what lenders use, so people with negative marks on their credit record must learn how to play with the system in order to get good deals from lenders. I expect my score to bump right back up to near where it was no later than 6/22, which is the estimated competion date of my disputes. I don't expect my disputes to change anything, except for maybe the last one I did asking to remove recent history on a closed account. But, simply the removal of dispute status will cause a score jump.

This is definately now the end of all DVs from me.

I don't understand why the score drops like it does, it just does. The accounts in dispute are not significantly helping my AAoA, my credit report has 30+ accounts on it. The history on the disputes items is bad and so it would make sense that a dispute would give me a brief increase in score. But this is not the case. FICO makes no sense, but I thought I would post what is happening for the benefit of other forum users.

Re: My score is constantly changing.

Anonymous — Fri, 25 May 2012 01:26:08 GMT

DaveSignal wrote:

I am at a point where sometimes an account that doesn't appear to change in any significant way causes a score drop or increase. It makes no sense.

EDIT: removed because above post answers my questions

Regardless, congrats on the score improvement!

Re: My score is constantly changing.

DaveSignal — Fri, 25 May 2012 02:43:19 GMT

Thanks. I think it something in the Equifax FICO algorithm, because my Experian, Equifax, and Transunion PLUS score has stayed the same for the last week (at 692) and there really is no major change in the disputed accounts.... they still have the same status, equifax still shows the full payment history, everything is the same except for the comment which used to be "customer disputes this information" has changed to "customer disputes this information -- reinvestigation in progress"

The disputes caused the big score drops, but my score is still constantly changing even without the disputes. It will shoot up or down in a few days, maybe even tomorrow. And within 2 weeks I expect some sort of drastic change, hopefully positive. It is so sudden and unpredictable, though, that if I didn't already have a home, a car, and good credit cards, I would be applying like mad every time my score hit a peak just in the case that it will shoot back down again the next day.