topic Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Lenders see different scores than consumers do

Anonymous — Sat, 23 Apr 2011 11:06:06 GMT

I have been trying to work on raising my score (was lowered 2 years ago due to a cut in pay) I was able to secure a new Job in early 2010 for a higher salary and started monitoring my scores through Equifax, Experian and Transunion. I eventually got them all raised high enough to apply for a mortgage loan.

My scores were:

Equifax: 640

Experian: 664

Transunion: 752 (don't understand why this one is so much higher)

However when the lender pulled a merged credit report required in the mortgage business the scores were:

622

635

627

When I questioned the lender, he said that the scores we see when purchasing the products from the credit bureaus its completely different from the mortgage report cores, (they are much lower) and the car reports a dealer or leasing company would pull are lower yet.

So it seems a complete rip off to pay to see a score which has not much to do with what lenders get! I feel like Ive been completely ripped off. I pay 10.00 a month for a service that alerts me if someone tries to use my identity, and was subscribing to the 2 credit bureaus so I could make sure my score was high enough for a loan. (I have to go with an FHA)

I also noticed if I pay for the 3 in 1 scores, they are never correct either. For example I subscribed with Transunion 3 in 1, and it shows my Equifax as a 25 point difference and Experian at 15 points difference.

What a rip off all the way around. Im furious, feeling we are being fed a line of BS just so these companies can have a new market to sell to!

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

llecs — Sat, 23 Apr 2011 13:40:19 GMT

I'd be upset too.

Unfortunately as you know now, the scores offered via TransUnion, Experian, and even Equifax are not even FICO scores. They are a non-FICO we call a FAKO. They'll tell you in the tiny fine print that they aren't FICO scores, and promote them as an "educational score" or as a marketing gimmick, but these services will go at great lengths to hide that fact. Not only do they hide that info from consumer view, but they go at great lengths to hide or prevent consumer-access to a FICO score. Experian for example no longer provides data for consumers to buy an Experian FICO score as evidenced on this website. If any service offers an Experian score, then run away knowing that their scores are not FICO scores. I recommend checking out the CMS Guide. It covers some of the services out there, including one you used, and tells you if the score is a FICO score or not. It also lists other places you can get your FICO score outside of your lender. Basically the only use these services have are to monitor your credit. I use them but I ignore the scores (if not a FICO).

If your goal is to get a mortgage and you want to improve your FICO scores, and you want to use that same lender, I recommend looking at their tri-merge report to look at those FICO scores. Specifically, you'd want to look at the version of FICO score used. Just about all lenders use the same EQ FICO as found on this site. If you were to pull your EQ FICO the same day as your lender, they'd likely match. TU FICO is a little different. There are two versions out there of TU FICO that lenders use. One is a 98 version and other is a 04 version. It's always possible that the TU FICO may not match, but would be close, and would be handy to know beforehand. Your tri-merge report from the lender should list the TU version used. And lastly, the only way you can get your EX FICO because Experian blocks access is either from your lender or from a CU in PA called PSECU if you happen to bank with them. That score would likely match your lender's too.

I recommend looking at what is holding your scores back. The fastest way to improve is paying off credit cards. There are some great folks on these forums who can help you reach your goals whatever they may be.

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

Anonymous — Sat, 23 Apr 2011 21:42:27 GMT

Ok, I changed my equifax from the 3 in 1 monitor service to scorewatch, but how do I get the Trimerged. This lender used Equifax Mortgage services, since thats what showed up as a hard inquiry when they pulled my scores. Actually they were higher the day he pulled it, since as soon as I paid down my american express blue cash card from 1500 to 111. My score dropped 25 points!

But how do I get the trimerged report they get?

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

JagerBombs89 — Sat, 23 Apr 2011 22:07:25 GMT

There is no company that offers 3-in-1 FICO scores. There are companies that offer maybe 1 of the 3. PSECU, for example, offers free EX FICO scores to it's members that have signed up. MyFico and Equifax offer ScoreWatch to monitor your EQ FICO. MyFICO also offers a 13-year-out-dated FICO score (TU 98) but most lenders use TU 04 so the TU score you get on here is more of a "guideline"

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

cw81 — Sat, 23 Apr 2011 22:29:25 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Ok, I changed my equifax from the 3 in 1 monitor service to scorewatch, but how do I get the Trimerged. This lender used Equifax Mortgage services, since thats what showed up as a hard inquiry when they pulled my scores. Actually they were higher the day he pulled it, since as soon as I paid down my american express blue cash card from 1500 to 111. My score dropped 25 points!

But how do I get the trimerged report they get?

Mortage lenders suscribe to a service that pulls what they call a trimerge that gives you a beacon 5.0 score for your equifax report , a fico score for Experian which I believe is called Fico Nextgen (someone correct me if am wrong on the nextgen name for EX) and I believe TU04 Fico for Transunion report.

As a consumer you can get 2 out of 3 fico scores from here and you will get the same Beacon 5.0 from here for EQ You will get TU98 not TU04 from here and as has already been touched you are not able to get your EX score from here.

FICO scores are what are used industry wide getting scores from other sources other than those listed above and by other posters will surely cause you to see disecrepancies and you are definitely comparing proverbial apples to oranges

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

llecs — Sun, 24 Apr 2011 00:43:46 GMT

Ditto, OP. There isn't such a product. Experian wanted to push their own fake scores via their website and they blocked consumer access to your EX FICO score. Now you can get it from your lender and at least a couple of other sources, but we can't pull it on our own (Experian ). At one point we could pull the exact same scores that lenders use via this website, but that went away a couple of years ago.

The only way you can get a tri-merge report is via your lender. You can pull your EQ FICO from here (Beacon 5.0 as mentioned) and you can pull your TU FICO from here. There are a couple of TU FICO versions being used by lenders and one is on this website. The other cannot be pulled by consumers (TU04). Finally, and a slight correction, the EX FICO is called a Fair Isaac Risk Score v2 and that used to be sold on here and most all lenders use it. Nexgen (Nextgen?) is a non-Classic FICO that really isn't used in mortgage lending. Alliant CU used to offer it.

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

typicalguy — Sun, 24 Apr 2011 13:09:25 GMT

same thing happened to me this week. i pulled my three reports from a feature offered by one of my credit card companies and when i went into the bank it wasn't 753 it was actually 703. i about died. now i'm on this site trying to research what the difference is.

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

TheLegend — Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:39:25 GMT

llecs, how much of a difference would u say there is between the TU04 and TU98?

Would u say my TU98 is a lot different from what the lenders see if they are using TU04? Just curious because I don't want to pay $19.99 for a score from MyFico, only to go somewhere else and they tell me my Fico is 50 points less than what I'm seeing here.

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

nrc2112 — Fri, 16 Mar 2012 05:24:52 GMT

The difference between what you pAy for here and what lenders pull in points can be 100 point difference. If you pay for your fico score here you are throwing money away.

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

sunshine7157 — Fri, 16 Mar 2012 06:00:10 GMT

Thats pretty disappointing. I was unaware of the FICO TU score here being the outdated TU98 model & therefore relatively useless in the big scheme of things. I've put out a good chunk of change monitoring that. Huh. Hard lesson learned. Trust is a terrible thing to waste...

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

crunching_numbers — Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:27:56 GMT

YMMV. When I applied for my DM card, the difference between what I had pulled here and what they told me my score was was only 1 point. (693 versus 694). It probably depends on which bucket you fall into, and which of the bad things are on your report. I was actually surprised at the mere 1 point difference myself.

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

llecs — Fri, 16 Mar 2012 23:13:33 GMT

@nrc2112 wrote:
The difference between what you pAy for here and what lenders pull in points can be 100 point difference. If you pay for your fico score here you are throwing money away.

IME it's spot on. The EQ FICO pulled from here will most always match the EQ FICO used by your mortgage lender. It's the same formula almost all lenders use. The TU FICO on here may or may not match. YMMV. For some it does match, and for most it will not. The version used by most mortgage lenders will not match. But again, YMMV. The last loan I got outside of the mortgage was the same TU98 version as found on here.

If your difference was 100 pts off, then that's quite a bit. If you experienced that, the difference could be due to not pulling on the same day. Scores can change daily. If pulled the same day, then the score you first pulled might not be a FICO score, and comparing a FICO to a non-FICO can result in 100 pts or more when compared the same day.

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

Student_Loans_Kill — Sat, 24 Mar 2012 10:56:04 GMT

@llecs wrote:
@nrc2112 wrote:
The difference between what you pAy for here and what lenders pull in points can be 100 point difference. If you pay for your fico score here you are throwing money away.

IME it's spot on. The EQ FICO pulled from here will most always match the EQ FICO used by your mortgage lender. It's the same formula almost all lenders use. The TU FICO on here may or may not match. YMMV. For some it does match, and for most it will not. The version used by most mortgage lenders will not match. But again, YMMV. The last loan I got outside of the mortgage was the same TU98 version as found on here.

If your difference was 100 pts off, then that's quite a bit. If you experienced that, the difference could be due to not pulling on the same day. Scores can change daily. If pulled the same day, then the score you first pulled might not be a FICO score, and comparing a FICO to a non-FICO can result in 100 pts or more when compared the same day.

When is myfico going to update to TU04

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

llecs — Sat, 24 Mar 2012 13:55:57 GMT

Student_Loans_Kill wrote:

When is myfico going to update to TU04

In the words of Barry:

MyFICO should update to TU04, including adding other versions like keeping TU98 (I had a lender pull that no too long ago) and adding TU08 (even though nobody is using it). As well as adding all the other versions out there for TU and EQ like auto-enhanced, etc.

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

Anonymous — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 05:54:48 GMT

Wow it's the man trying to keep the lil ones down!

gerrrrr

Haha O' well guess I need to keep a lender in my back pocket! Hum!!!

Anyone know any hot lenders I can date??

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

Duke-of-Earl — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:22:45 GMT

Most posts in this thread have addressed the FICO/FAKO business, but the OP's point about the industry-specific scores hasn't gotten much response. I have to agree with him/her, it's just not right that we can't buy those specialized scores. I can see the value of them for lenders, and wouldn't mind paying for them, but the current situation means you can't contradict the used-car salesman when he says your score is too low. It's unjust.

On a different point raised by some in this thread, I also found the EQ score my mortgage lender got was the same as what's available through myfico. At least 33.3% works right!

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

rckstrscott — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 10:41:53 GMT

@Duke-of-Earl wrote:
Most posts in this thread have addressed the FICO/FAKO business, but the OP's point about the industry-specific scores hasn't gotten much response. I have to agree with him/her, it's just not right that we can't buy those specialized scores. I can see the value of them for lenders, and wouldn't mind paying for them, but the current situation means you can't contradict the used-car salesman when he says your score is too low. It's unjust.

On a different point raised by some in this thread, I also found the EQ score my mortgage lender got was the same as what's available through myfico. At least 33.3% works right!

Yeah.. I agree with your sentiment 100 percent.. at least with the EQ being right for most lenders, at least you do have an idea..

-scott

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 15:35:22 GMT

I paid for two myFICO scores from the myFICO website last week, one Experian and the other Transunion. They were 730 and 704 respectively. I printed them up and

took them to a mortgage lender, along with other documents, knowing that they would also pull their own score. The lender pulled scores within an hour later: 675!!!!! - and disappointingly, I was told to "sit tight for a while longer" and get "a longer paid on time history" - though mine is four years since any late payment. I was told that I wouldn't want to pay the high interest on a loan (that the bank wasn't actually even offering, based on that 675 score....)

How can the scores that consumers pull be so "off"? What a waste of money!!!! I feel completely misled by what appeared as the expensive myFICO scores.

I am outraged at the SECRECY and CONFUSION surrounding this jumble of differing formulas and calculations. The same information appears in each of the three

reporting agencies on me, as I have spent years honing it to be accurate, yet the scores vary wildly. What a crock!

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

GregB — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 16:15:33 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I paid for two myFICO scores from the myFICO website last week, one Experian and the other Transunion. They were 730 and 704 respectively. I printed them up and
took them to a mortgage lender, along with other documents, knowing that they would also pull their own score. The lender pulled scores within an hour later: 675!!!!! - and disappointingly, I was told to "sit tight for a while longer" and get "a longer paid on time history" - though mine is four years since any late payment. I was told that I wouldn't want to pay the high interest on a loan (that the bank wasn't actually even offering, based on that 675 score....)

How can the scores that consumers pull be so "off"? What a waste of money!!!! I feel completely misled by what appeared as the expensive myFICO scores.
I am outraged at the SECRECY and CONFUSION surrounding this jumble of differing formulas and calculations. The same information appears in each of the three
reporting agencies on me, as I have spent years honing it to be accurate, yet the scores vary wildly. What a crock!

myFICO does not sell an Experian score. Do you mean Equifax?

When you apply for a mortgage, they usually pull all 3 FICO scores. Did you get all three?

If you applied for a mortage, they almost certainly used the same EQ score sold here. They would have used one version newer on TU. They would have also pulled an EX score. Ask for the report and look at all three scores. Your EQ should match exactly. Look through the reports and check for differences so that you can figure out what the scores mean.

Sometimes a mortgage pre-qualify can use non-FICO scores. That is possible but very unlikely. If they do, then you normally still have to qualify based on FICO scores for virtually all normal mortgages.

Re: Lenders see different scores than consumers do

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 16:29:23 GMT

Yes, I did mean Equifax (another sort of confusing issue, that two of the three credit agencies start with "e"....

I literally went down to the bank immediately after paying for and printing the scores. The lender, when I pointed out that I had just pulled

the scores I was showing him, said, "Nah, lenders get differnt information and scores than you as a consumer do. They're not the same." He was completely

dismissive of the scores I pulled through myFICO, as if they were utterly bogus.

Thanks for your response.