topic Re: Best Accurate Credit Score in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Best Accurate Credit Score

Anonymous — Tue, 21 May 2013 20:11:26 GMT

I am in the process of repairing and have had several things removed and update. When following my credit score which score is the most accurate to follower? I need to start opening some new account as soon as possible and I don't want to take any chances of not getting approved if my scores are too low. I have had 9 accounts removed from my TU report but its only showing it went up by 4pts from 570 to 574.

Re: Best Accurate Credit Score

llecs — Tue, 21 May 2013 20:39:42 GMT

Where did you get your TU score from?

Re: Best Accurate Credit Score

Anonymous — Wed, 22 May 2013 03:38:23 GMT

I got the score from Credit Karma it also showed a Vantage score of 560.

Re: Best Accurate Credit Score

thom02099 — Wed, 22 May 2013 11:48:17 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I am in the process of repairing and have had several things removed and update. When following my credit score which score is the most accurate to follower? I need to start opening some new account as soon as possible and I don't want to take any chances of not getting approved if my scores are too low. I have had 9 accounts removed from my TU report but its only showing it went up by 4pts from 570 to 574.

How long ago was the removal of the 9 baddies from your TU report? Keep in mind that it could take a couple of report cycles to fully see the results of baddies falling off, depending on how quickly the reports have been updated by the issuer/account holder.

Credit Karma is a FAKO score, meaning it's not a FICO, so is good only for educational/informational purposes. It is good for following TRENDS in your credit history, up or down, but NOT for monitoring scores. My suggestion would be to buy the TU and EQ scores here at MyFICO, so you have a baseline of what your starting score is. Use that to judge what your progress will be. The TU score here is an older model of TU (there are 2 newer ones), and the EQ score here is a Beacon 5.0, which is a model that many lenders use.

I would also suggest you read up on some of the stickies at the top of each forum, and you might do well also in the Rebuilding Forum.

Re: Best Accurate Credit Score

dethkultur — Wed, 22 May 2013 14:05:27 GMT

Before buying in too much, you should realize MyFICO only sells one FICO score, while creditors use 46 other FICO scores. They are all called FICO, and it's a regular occurence for people to report that their bank, credit card, etc, is telling them a different Equifax FICO score than is reported here (and it always seems to be lower.) MyFICO makes no guarantees that the score you see here is the same score Equifax will send to your potential creditors. All that said, there's a bias against FAKO that you get on credit karma, but the score you get here is worth about as much.

Re: Best Accurate Credit Score

thom02099 — Wed, 22 May 2013 15:10:21 GMT

@dethkultur wrote:
Before buying in too much, you should realize MyFICO only sells one FICO score, while creditors use 46 other FICO scores. They are all called FICO, and it's a regular occurence for people to report that their bank, credit card, etc, is telling them a different Equifax FICO score than is reported here (and it always seems to be lower.) MyFICO makes no guarantees that the score you see here is the same score Equifax will send to your potential creditors. All that said, there's a bias against FAKO that you get on credit karma, but the score you get here is worth about as much.

Yes....there are multiple scores (models, enhancements, etc) that say "FICO" on them. However, one still needs a baseline of legitimate FICO scoring, so one knows where they stand initally, and more importantly where they are progressing. FAKOS (such as Credit Karma) frequently do not include closed/in good standing accounts in their scoring, whereas FICO does. This is a substantial difference between the 2 and a difference not to be taken lightly, since future creditors will look at the big picture and not just open accounts.

Re: Best Accurate Credit Score

Anonymous — Wed, 22 May 2013 15:21:28 GMT

myFICO sells TU and EQ FICO scores. Sometime in the future, they will be selling EX.

Re: Best Accurate Credit Score

Anonymous — Sat, 25 May 2013 21:33:12 GMT

Generally speaking, opening a "new account" ends up hurting your score, as does closing long-standing existing accounts. One of the things that goes into credit scores is the length of your credit history on given accounts. An additional factor is the balance on the account, relative to the high credit limit. So, a long-standing account with a low balance, is better than a new account with a low credit limit and high balance.

But, here's another problem. I monitor my scores at each of the "three major credit bureaus", Equifax, Experian and TransUnion. Checking my scores today, at Transunion, for instance, the score is 673. I was in the process of buying a car and when the approval, with teh low loan amount and relatively high rate "from my credit union, which pulls from Transunion" came in, I went in to the credit union to inquire, since my debt-to-income ratio is less than 35%. Upon talking to the credit union rep, who in turn spoke to the underwriter, I found that the credit score they pulled was a 629! I pulled a fresh credit report and showed the 673 to the rep. The underwriter then advised that though they pull from Transunion, they actually use a FICO Auto 08 scoring model. That is what led me to this site. From reading some other posts, I understand that FICO issues "different" credit scores for different purposes!!?!?!?!!

All of this crap must be a scam to get MORE of the money you're willing to spend! What's the point of signing up on this site to monitor or obtain your FICO score, if that's not the score that's going to be obtained by the lender you're seeking to obtain financing from? This **bleep** should be illegal, but, I'm sure whatever entity you seek to complain to is in the pocket of, (or can't or won't do anything about) these people/systems that pull this type of nonsense.

If it's not too late, review your old credit report and see which of those old accounts you closed were still in good standing and had decent balances on them, even if you hadn't used them recently and see if you can re-open the SAME account, (with the same account number). If you haven't used the account in a long time, go buy something small on it, (a tie, some socks, anything insignificant), just to the keep the reporting up to date, then pay it off when the bill comes in. That'll do more for your scores than opening new accounts which they have no ability to track your payment history and will keep your scores low.

Finally, along with what was mentioned above, your best bet is to have "the good mix" of accounts, i.e., a mortgage, revolving and an installment debt. Those 3 things, paid on time over time, with no "late" payments is the key to building a strong credit profile. By "late" I mean, nothing over 30 days beyond the due date. So, if the payment is due on the first and you get it in on the 30th, for credit reporting purposes, it's not late, since the creditors report how many times you were 30, 60, 90, 120 etc., days late. So less than 30 days, you're good!

Re: Best Accurate Credit Score

Anonymous — Sat, 25 May 2013 22:15:45 GMT

Closing an account in good standing does not hurt your score. If it has a balance it will affect your utilization until paid off. The CL of a closed account is not factored in for utilization purposes. Closed accounts still factor into AAoA.

Only revolving counts toward revolving utilization. Installment accounts have their own utilization and count very little toward the score.

Re: Best Accurate Credit Score

llecs — Sun, 26 May 2013 00:53:46 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

But, here's another problem. I monitor my scores at each of the "three major credit bureaus", Equifax, Experian and TransUnion. Checking my scores today, at Transunion, for instance, the score is 673. I was in the process of buying a car and when the approval, with teh low loan amount and relatively high rate "from my credit union, which pulls from Transunion" came in, I went in to the credit union to inquire, since my debt-to-income ratio is less than 35%. Upon talking to the credit union rep, who in turn spoke to the underwriter, I found that the credit score they pulled was a 629! I pulled a fresh credit report and showed the 673 to the rep. The underwriter then advised that though they pull from Transunion, they actually use a FICO Auto 08 scoring model. That is what led me to this site. From reading some other posts, I understand that FICO issues "different" credit scores for different purposes!!?!?!?!!

All of this crap must be a scam to get MORE of the money you're willing to spend! What's the point of signing up on this site to monitor or obtain your FICO score, if that's not the score that's going to be obtained by the lender you're seeking to obtain financing from? This **bleep** should be illegal, but, I'm sure whatever entity you seek to complain to is in the pocket of, (or can't or won't do anything about) these people/systems that pull this type of nonsense.

Unfortunately If you monitor your scores from each of the 3 CRAs, and that source was the same, then none of them are FICO scores. You cannot buy your EX FICO from anywhere without the help of a lender and the only other place you can pull your TU FICO is from myFICO outside of a lender. Other sites sell scores but none of them are FICO scores. You can easily have 100 point differences in your score when pulled from sites that offer FAKOs vs. a FICO.

With the above said, had you pulled your TU FICO from here the same day as your CU for the auto loan, you would see two different scores. The Classic FICO on here including TU04) is geared towards most lenders, whereas the auto-enhanced FICO your lender provided is geared towards a small minority of lenders, specifically auto lenders. If you were to apply for a mortgage the same day you'd see a different score. If you applied for a new CC, you might see even yet another score. Personally I'd like to see myFICO offer all types of FICOs for sale. I'd buy them.

Re: Best Accurate Credit Score

Anonymous — Sun, 26 May 2013 14:28:46 GMT

The reports was 4/18/13 and 5/15/13 that I received from TU. Some of the items still remains on EQ and EX. Thanks I will wait before ordering a score from TU to give it time to update.

Re: Best Accurate Credit Score

Anonymous — Thu, 30 May 2013 01:30:03 GMT

Well, I must admit that I do recognize that each CRA uses its own scoring model, all of which, I'm sure, was based on FICOs algorithm to some degree, since FI developed the model.

I must also admit, that while I knew "FICO" scores were different from the scores obtained directly from the CRAs, I "didn't" know the scoring of those models could be SO DIFFERENT. And while it's clear that many, if not most here, are HUGE FICO Advocates, I also acknowledge that being the first to develop something doesn't "necessarily" make yours the best. For the first car we hear of is the Ford Model T (or whatever) - while Ford does make some decent cars, that are ABSOLUTELY NOT the best auto manufacturer out there. Why "relatively new player" Hyundai smokes them in probably every category they both make cars in. Therefore, considering that you can get different "FICO" scores for the same person, on the same day, depending on who's pulling the credit doesn't, to me, make FICO the best, or even reliable. If you're telling me that two dealers can pull my credit the same day and get two different results, then I'm telling you, your product is flawed, (unless you got bit by the excessive inquiry bug - if that applies to FICO). For one to be signed up on this site and not be able to rely on getting the score you're shown here defeats the purpose of being here. If you're trying to tell me FICO has several different algorithms or scores, then that too tells (me) the model is flawed. If you're trying to say each different model adjusts for the type of inquiry, or whatever, the science still sucks because it can't compensate for factors beyond the control of the individual and who says the proper algorithm then, got applied to the scenario. (Of course, that could be good or bad).

Contrarily, if you monitor your credit and scores directly at the CRA, your data is going to be consistent, regardless of who pulls it, until you reach the point that you're impacting your score by having the various number of inquiries as mentioned before. The problem with that though, (as I learned this weekend), is that though folks obtain their credit reports from the CRAs, the scoring model might not be the CRAs, but FICO's instead. I'm not saying this is a bad thing. It is what it is, but your guess is as good as anybody else's as to what you're going to get and all FICO personnel and advocates will admit that to you.

Having originated and processed mortgage loans for quite a few years, along with monitoring my own credit, I must also admit that I've NEVER seen a situation where the scores one shows at the CRAs isn't what they get when their credit is pulled for a mortgage. I don't know; perhaps FICO scores are generally lower as its model may be more conservative and lenders would rather see the bigger numbers to fund more loans because 40 to 50 point swings are HUGE and make a BIG DIFFERENCE in interest rates, amount financed and monthly payments, if you qualify at all.

So, to answer the original question then, the "best accurate credit score" is determined by knowing which scoring model the entity you plan to seek credit from, uses to obtain their score. If it's the model used by the CRA, then theirs is the Best Accurate Credit Score. If it's the FICO model, then FICO provides the best accurate credit score, (even though you have NO WAY OF KNOWING WHAT YOU'LL GET WITH THEM and they ADMIT, that with their various scores, what you see here is most likely NOT what your lender is going to get). To find out what your intended creditor uses, you simply call and ask them. You ask what bureau or bureas they pull credit from and what the name of the scoring model is they use for the particular purchase you plan to make. If they use the CRA's model, then your FICO score is worthless, and vise versa.

Thus, the bottom line still comes down to paying your bills on time and providing a reliable payment history/track record. Use your credit wisely, and when you're ready to make a major purchase, get the balances down on those existing accounts so your debt-to-income ratio is minimized- (you can run them back up later if you have to once you've obtained what you needed the credit for - being sure you stay within your budget so you can maintain that positive credit/payment history).

Thanks to all of you who responded to my original post. Your comments were insightful as it pertains to understanding "FICO" scores and FICO scoring better. And thanks to my credit union for the curve ball! You all increased my knowledge and understanding. I'm a wiser consumer for it.

Regards,

dec33162

Re: Best Accurate Credit Score

llecs — Thu, 30 May 2013 02:37:08 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Contrarily, if you monitor your credit and scores directly at the CRA, your data is going to be consistent, regardless of who pulls it, until you reach the point that you're impacting your score by having the various number of inquiries as mentioned before. The problem with that though, (as I learned this weekend), is that though folks obtain their credit reports from the CRAs, the scoring model might not be the CRAs, but FICO's instead. I'm not saying this is a bad thing. It is what it is, but your guess is as good as anybody else's as to what you're going to get and all FICO personnel and advocates will admit that to you.

I mentioned score source in my prev. post for reasons mentioned here. If you visit TransUnion.com or Experian.com, you cannot buy any FICO scores. It's impossible to get them from those two sites. Scores are offered, but they are unrelated to FICO and not developed by FICO. In fact, on TU, the score offered has a score range of 501-990 vs. FICO's 300-850 so it's normal to have large score differences. EX offers the same score as TU, but they also offer another type of score that no lenders use with a range of 330-830. Equifax.com does offer an EQ FICO. But the score pushed and the score offered in their monitoring products is not a FICO score and unrelated. This non-FICO has about the same score range of FICO but many in here have seen up to 100 point differences when compared with FICO.

You're right in that if you have a lender that doesn't pull the same version as found here you could be in for a surprise. I share your idea to talk to lenders before hand. When I applied for my mortgage I interviewed my lenders-to-be first and that was one of the questions I asked. Most had no clue what kind of FICO they pulled but most lenders have no clue about FICO scoring either. Usually the 2nd best option if your lender doesn't know is to pull a FICO from here (or anywhere, even for free from select places) just to get an idea of where you stand credit-wise. Everyone reading this is in the know. The masses out there have no clue about credit scoring and tend to rely on the CRAs for scores when their FICO could easily be dozens off.

Re: Best Accurate Credit Score

dethkultur — Thu, 30 May 2013 02:57:02 GMT

@llecs wrote:
The masses out there have no clue about credit scoring and tend to rely on the CRAs for scores when their FICO could easily be dozens off.

And not just CRAs, but MyFICO also. MyFICO makes no guarantees that it will not be "dozens off" from the FICO score sent to your creditors.

Re: Best Accurate Credit Score

dddewdrop — Thu, 30 May 2013 10:30:55 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
myFICO sells TU and EQ FICO scores. Sometime in the future, they will be selling EX.

Do you have any specific knowledge about a recent announcement to start selling EX again by this site? Are you breaking news here? Ex has been very opaque with the public about a lot of things/

Re: Best Accurate Credit Score

thom02099 — Thu, 30 May 2013 11:51:06 GMT

@dddewdrop wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
myFICO sells TU and EQ FICO scores. Sometime in the future, they will be selling EX.
Do you have any specific knowledge about a recent announcement to start selling EX again by this site? Are you breaking news here? Ex has been very opaque with the public about a lot of things/

Here ya go...

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-in-the-News/FICO-and-Experian-reach-Agreement-to-Offer-Scores/td-p/2128553