topic Re: AU not counting toward AAoA Equifax FICO score!! in Understanding FICO® Scoring

AU not counting toward AAoA Equifax FICO score!!

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 03:45:54 GMT

I recently pulled my Equifax FICO score and report.

The Equifax FICO score usually indicates the oldest account that was opened and average age of accounts. I have a AAoA calculator which when populated with all the accounts on my credit report produces an AAoA of over 10 years. After messing around with the AAoA calulator, I figured out that the Equifax FICO calculation is not counting my AU credit card. When I delete the AU from the calculation, the AAoA produces 7 years, which matches the FICO report.

Additionally, I saw on my FICO report that the oldest account was 29years 4months. The AU that is on my FICO report was opened 2/1984 which would be 31years 5months.

Thought this interesting. Don't know if it has always been this way or if it is a new development or perhaps something wrong with the calculation of my credit report only. Kind of irritates me somewhat. I mean, if a AU isn't going to count toward your AAoA, what is the point other than having a good trade line on your report? As matter of fact, the AU card isn't counting toward my utilization either. Basically, it is there on the credit report, but seems invisible when FICO's calculates.

I will try and determine if Experian and TransUnion FICO calculations are also treating it this way when I get around to pulling them.

Will paste what I am seeing for Equifax

You have an established credit history.

Your oldest account was opened 29 Years, 4 Months ago

Average age of your accounts7 years

FICO High Achievers opened their oldest account 25 years ago, on average.

Most FICO High Achievers have an average age of accounts of 11 years or more.

Ratio of your revolving balances to your credit limits1%

For FICO High Achievers, the average ratio is less than 6%.

Company Date opened Balance Status

Syncb/Belk AU 2/1984 $855 Pays account as agreed (This is the AU)

Macy's/Dsnb 3/1986 $1 Pays account as agreed ( FICO says this is my oldest account 29yrs 4mths)

Usaa Savings Bank 1/2015 $41 Pays account as agreed

Amalgamated Bank 8/2014 $0 Pays account as agreed

Barclays Bank 6/2015 $0 Pays account as agreed

Amalgamated Bank 8/2014 $0 Pays account as agreed

Iberia Bank 5/2003 $0 Pays account as agreed

Fmc-Omaha 11/2003 $0 Pays account as agreed

AAoA calulator with all accounts 10.63 years

AAoA calulator without the Belk AU 7.75 years

The Belk AU card is not counting toward my utilization either, as you can see FICO says 1%. If it counted the AU it would be 5 or 6%.

Didn't know if this should be on this forum, or maybe Understanding FICO scoring forum. Any one have any input??

Re: AU not counting toward AAoA Equifax FICO score!!

TRC_WA — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 05:19:51 GMT

It's my understanding that FICO 8 puts much less weight on AU accounts than previous scoring models.

Re: AU not counting toward AAoA Equifax FICO score!!

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 05:34:48 GMT

Right, that was my understanding as well. However, if it isn;t being calculated for AAoA or utilization, my question is where is the wieght? From what I am seeing there is no wieght at all.

I distinctly recall reading that FICO reduced the worth of a AU tradeline. However, it was still suppose to count for something.

Here are the other FICO scores

785	FICO® Score 5 Previous version, most widely used for mortgage lendin

778	FICO® Auto Score 8 Version for auto lending

804	FICO® Auto Score 5 Previous version for auto lending

792	FICO® Bankcard Score 8 Version for credit card lending

806	FICO® Bankcard Score 5 Previous version for credit card lending

Re: AU not counting toward AAoA Equifax FICO score!!

TRC_WA — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 05:29:07 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Right, that was my understanding as well. However, if it isn;t being calculated for AAoA or utilization, my question is where is the wieght? From what I am seeing there is no wieght at all.

I'd agree. You are the first to actually do the math and post the results that I've seen.

No weight at all would be correct from what I see.

Re: AU not counting toward AAoA Equifax FICO score!!

RobertEG — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 05:54:12 GMT

It might be time to reconsider even having the AU.

Remember that with any AU showing in your credit report, it automatically makes any score that is produced not representative of only your own credit history.

Some creditors, upon doing a manual review and seeing that your score is based in part on an AU account, may choose to discount or ignore your score in their decision making, or in some cases, require you to remove the AU before they make their credit approval determination.

If you are past the rebuilding stage, where your credit apps are now more likely to undergo a manual review, you may wish to remove teh AUs.

Re: AU not counting toward AAoA Equifax FICO score!!

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 10:40:26 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
It might be time to reconsider even having the AU.
Remember that with any AU showing in your credit report, it automatically makes any score that is produced not representative of only your own credit history.
Some creditors, upon doing a manual review and seeing that your score is based in part on an AU account, may choose to discount or ignore your score in their decision making, or in some cases, require you to remove the AU before they make their credit approval determination.

If you are past the rebuilding stage, where your credit apps are now more likely to undergo a manual review, you may wish to remove teh AUs.

I have heard of this, but really think it comes more into play when manually reviewed for a mortgage. Never heard of lender applying that tactic for a credit card or even a car loan. However, if AU's are calulate like the one that is currently on my report, I can have as many as I want and my score wouldn't be effected.

My point here is, the Athorized User, at least from what I can see on the Equifax FICO report isn't counting at all. I am under the opinion, legally, it is suppose to count. And if it is counting or making a difference, how is it doing that without effecting AAoA or Utilization?

Re: AU not counting toward AAoA Equifax FICO score!!

TRC_WA — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 13:46:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

I am under the opinion, legally, it is suppose to count. And if it is counting or making a difference, how is it doing that without effecting AAoA or Utilization?

Good question.

My question is why AU's carry any weight at all in FICO scoring.

If my FICO score is supposed to be an indication of how I pay my debts... how would being added to Mom's 30 year old CC and inheriting her payment history be any indication at all of how I would pay my debts?

I was in like 4th grade 30 years ago. The whole thing is just baffling to me. I'm all for AU accounts... I have added my Dad to my Sallie Mae MC because he has a limited history and I wanted him to have a CC he can use on a daily basis... but IMHO the FICO score shouldn't be affected at all by someone else's account.

Re: AU not counting toward AAoA Equifax FICO score!!

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 16:35:10 GMT

My question is why AU's carry any weight at all in FICO scoring.

If my FICO score is supposed to be an indication of how I pay my debts... how would being added to Mom's 30 year old CC and inheriting her payment history be any indication at all of how I would pay my debts?

I was in like 4th grade 30 years ago. The whole thing is just baffling to me. I'm all for AU accounts... I have added my Dad to my Sallie Mae MC because he has a limited history and I wanted him to have a CC he can use on a daily basis... but IMHO the FICO score shouldn't be affected at all by someone else's account.

"I have added my Dad to my Sallie Mae MC because he has a limited history and I wanted him to have a CC he can use on a daily basis".

That is exactly why they count, why the goverment did not allow FICO to discount AU's on scoring.

Lots of people put there kids going to college as AU's for regular expenses or emergencies. It has the effect of helping the younger folks a little credit kick start. Others may need to take a role in helping there parents out, spouses, siblings. There are plenty of reasons. I would assume that is why FICO is suppose to still count the AU in there calculation.

Frankly the banks should be supportive as they make more money off of two or more users rather than one.

Is what is, and it is suppose to count, but I don't see where it is what so ever.

Re: AU not counting toward AAoA Equifax FICO score!!

Anonymous — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 12:31:32 GMT

The really odd thing that happen yesterday is the 3 score monitor gave me a alert that it detected a balance increase on my Belk AU card. It was a small amount and didn't effect score.

But I think the way that works is the CRA is notifying the FICO system, not the other way around like when you buy a credit report and score from FICO.

Re: AU not counting toward AAoA Equifax FICO score!!

Momof5 — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:21:21 GMT

@TRC_WA wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

I am under the opinion, legally, it is suppose to count. And if it is counting or making a difference, how is it doing that without effecting AAoA or Utilization?
Good question.

My question is why AU's carry any weight at all in FICO scoring.

If my FICO score is supposed to be an indication of how I pay my debts... how would being added to Mom's 30 year old CC and inheriting her payment history be any indication at all of how I would pay my debts?

I was in like 4th grade 30 years ago. The whole thing is just baffling to me. I'm all for AU accounts... I have added my Dad to my Sallie Mae MC because he has a limited history and I wanted him to have a CC he can use on a daily basis... but IMHO the FICO score shouldn't be affected at all by someone else's account.

I believe that this stems from the old housewives, married women don't get credit days. The wife was an AU on DH's account, but was the one that actually managed the finances for the family. This helped bring women into the credit world.

Re: AU not counting toward AAoA Equifax FICO score!!

Revelate — Sat, 11 Jul 2015 05:19:49 GMT

@Momof5 wrote:
@TRC_WA wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

I am under the opinion, legally, it is suppose to count. And if it is counting or making a difference, how is it doing that without effecting AAoA or Utilization?
Good question.

My question is why AU's carry any weight at all in FICO scoring.

If my FICO score is supposed to be an indication of how I pay my debts... how would being added to Mom's 30 year old CC and inheriting her payment history be any indication at all of how I would pay my debts?

I was in like 4th grade 30 years ago. The whole thing is just baffling to me. I'm all for AU accounts... I have added my Dad to my Sallie Mae MC because he has a limited history and I wanted him to have a CC he can use on a daily basis... but IMHO the FICO score shouldn't be affected at all by someone else's account.
I believe that this stems from the old housewives, married women don't get credit days. The wife was an AU on DH's account, but was the one that actually managed the finances for the family. This helped bring women into the credit world.

Basically this, millions of stay-at-home spouses who didn't bother with credit effectively lost their credit scores when FICO 8 was introduced.

It was rolled back in favor of an anti-abuse algorithm to determine whether the AU counts or doesn't. All or nothing now.

Presumably the lenders don't want AU's to count still (or they wouldn't have pushed FICO to do that in the first place), it wouldn't surprise me if further tweaks happen. FWIW I would strongly recommend everyone to have tradelines in their own name, regardless of AU's on the report. While mortgages are leaving the mandate of having to have your own tradelines behind, it's simply better to have your own history period to fall back on.

OP: you can't really trust any third party (including MF's) interpretation for an AAOA calculation. I would be stunned and amazed if the abuse calculation was given to the front-end developers in FICO Consumer who wrote the simulator.

Re: AU not counting toward AAoA Equifax FICO score!!

Anonymous — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 05:39:09 GMT

Yeah I realize that FICO would never divulge any or not particulars of their calculation on AAoA or much of anything about it. Nor would I try to figure it out. To time consuming and fruitless. My point is, is counting or is it not? Cause I can't tell

Re: AU not counting toward AAoA Equifax FICO score!!

Revelate — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 07:07:22 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Yeah I realize that FICO would never divulge any or not particulars of their calculation on AAoA or much of anything about it. Nor would I try to figure it out. To time consuming and fruitless. My point is, is counting or is it not? Cause I can't tell

Really isn't way to tell other than maybe playing with reported revolving balances: all $0's is a penalty in every FICO model and if the AU is being discounted if you have a balance on it only and you still get the whack compared to having one of your own tradelines with a balance on it, that's really the only thing I've ever seen reported to be able to diagnose it under the FICO 8 algorithm.

For where your scores are I really wouldn't worry about it, other than personal pride as anything north of 760 is superfluous from a lender perspective anyhow.