topic Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent? in General Credit Topics

Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:58:26 GMT

This is the first place I could think of to ask about this...

We just bought a house, moved in 7 weeks ago. As soon as our offer was accepted on the place at the end of April, we notified our landlords (a rental company that owns various apartment complexes across the country) and, as per the clause in our rental agreement (due to end Dec 31 2008) that said that the lease could be broken with the agreement of the landlords, given two months notice plus the payment of an extra month's rent for the inconvenience of breaking the lease, we gave them a check for the 'inconvenience fee', a check for May's rent, and promised that June's rent would be forthcoming at the end of May when we moved out (ie, two months notice even though we'd only be living there for one month).

We initially sent an email to the property manager (saying that we'd be paying the May rent and the inconvenience fee ASAP - ie as soon as she acknowledged our notice - and the June rent when it was due, taking us up to the end of notice period at the end of June), who in her usual style, totally failed to respond. After waiting a couple of days and hearing nothing, my husband took the checks into the rental office where the property manager happily accepted them, apologized for not having responded to the email, and said that even though we were now a few days into May, she would backdate our notice to the beginning of May as that is when we had notified them. They went over everything and agreed on what was going to happen. I was more than a little concerned at not having her explicit agreement to all this in writing, but my husband reassured me that there was no problem, everything was agreed to, and she'd accepted that we were ending the lease at the end of June and paying an extra month's rent for the inconvenience of breaking the lease. The checks were duly cashed, we moved out into our new house, and at the end of June returned the keys to the property manager. All very friendly and no hint of problems.

Then today we get home to find a letter from THAT VERY SAME property manager, in the guise of a letter about us forfeiting our security deposit, listing a couple of charges for carpet cleaning and general wear and tear (about $80 out of the $300 deposit) and then billing us for the rent through until the end of December (several thousand dollars), minus a credit for 'advance rent payment' (clearly the 'inconvenience fee' we paid to break our lease, although they have listed the wrong amount) - finishing with the threat that if we don't pay them all these thousands of dollars within 30 days, they are going to send us to collections.

I am seething, and fuming, and very very worried indeed. My husband is unconcerned, saying that their having cashed the check clearly marked 'inconvenience fee' shows they agreed to our breaking of the lease, and that all this is laid out in our contract, and therefore we're not paying them a penny. I agree we're not paying them a penny, but am more than a little worried of the effect this will no doubt have on our credit if they follow through with this. We have (email) proof that we notified them in writing (if email counts), although they never responded to the email - and the property manager very definitely agreed to everything verbally with my husband. We also have a copy of the cashed 'inconvenience fee' check, clearly labelled as such. All the office staff from the property management company, the property manager included, were cheerfully asking us how the house-buying was coming along in the weeks before we left, etc etc... THEY AGREED TO IT and are now trying to **** us over.

Does anyone have any experience of anything like this? I am thinking it might be lawyer time here, but in the mean time... any advice or suggestions ANYONE can give (and please, no 'you should have got it in writing', yes, I know we should have!) would be very much appreciated.

edited to add... we are in Ohio.

Message Edited by fevmlo on 07-21-2008 07:53 PM

... and edited AGAIN to add that I can't believe this cr*p!! I thought we'd endured the last of their marvellous mismanagement abilities when we managed to get our mortgage in spite of our most recent bank statement being one giant mess of NSF charges due to the incompetent company the landlords use to take automatic rent payments double-charging every single tenant in the building (and a few thousand more other unfortunates across the state), causing massive overdrafts and then taking DAYS to rectify the mess while ignoring all phone calls and denying any responsibility whatsoever. I thought at that point it was impossible to loathe these people more than I already did... but oh look, it IS possible.

Message Edited by fevmlo on 07-21-2008 07:57 PM

Message Edited by fevmlo on 07-21-2008 07:58 PM

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

granny031350 — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:15:14 GMT

if you still have your lease contract with them, read the fine print and see what it specifically states about this. Then you might have to wait for them to sue you and the lawyer up to fight it.

I left my lease early in 2001. It was with a national complex/managment firm. When I called and ask, I was told 200.00 lease breakage fee and rent up to date of moving out. However, after I moved, I received a bill for over 3000. (the rest of the rent until my lease was up)

The rules generally state that you are responsible for rent until the place is rerented. The company cannot double dip. I was so mentally out of it at the time due to many other issues that I wasn't aware at the time of that rule. So I didn't fight it and they are just now being discharged in my chapter 13 bankruptcy. But they were relentless in pursuing me for this money.

However, I know that this same apartment was rerented within a week of my moving out. Had I known or realized then what I know now, I would have fought it in court but now it is too late and they have received 61 percent of the remaining 2400 balance I owed them through my bk. It will soon be discharged and I will be done with them.

In your case, see when the apartment was rerented and check out the landlord/tenant rules for your area. Many states have specific rules about what landlords can and can't do. If they are in violation, you can probably report them to their board and see what happens.

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:45:02 GMT

Okay, what EXACTLY does your lease provide for in event of early termination? We need the EXACT verbiage here, if you can find it (I've been known to misplace the d@mn thing from time to time).

According to Ohio LL/T law, the terms of the lease prevails. So if the lease says "blah-blah" to the effect that they CAN charge you for the duration of the lease (bearing in mind that they CANNOT lease to ANYONE else while you're still paying for it), you'd have to prove, in a court of law, that the verbal agreement was made.

Personally, I don't think you'd have a problem with that, if you act NOW. Write them another email -- or better yet, send them a letter CMRR stating that you were under the impression that you had entered into a verbal agreement and then STATE the verbal agreement (I'd just do a nice recap of the convo you had in her office). Make it sound as though you think this is all a mere misunderstanding and to please contact you in writing.

By doing so, you're leaving a paper trail a mile wide and if you DO have to go to court, you'll have oodles more chance of the judge taking your side (I actually think s/he would anyway ... you and your husband would BOTH have to appear and chances are, SHE wouldn't -- the apt's lawyer would).

And FTR, emails are admissible in court. Print out the ENTIRE thing, headers and all.

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:31:15 GMT

Thanks for the answers... they really, really help, and it's good to get people's perspectives on this. (Thanks so much... I am so stressed about this right now I'm barely capable of typing - not like my usual endless rambles!)

Having ripped the house apart looking for the lease, we found it (my husband had taken it to work with him when he emailed the property manager so he'd be able to see the relevant clause) - this is what it says:

ENDING LEASE EARLY:

Resident may not end this lease before the date written in the lease without the written consent and approval of Landlord. The Landlord's consent and approval to the Resident's request to end the lease early may be granted or witheld at Landlord's choice. If Resident wishes to end this lease early then Resident must do the following:

1) Give a written request to Landlord to end the lease early;
2) Give the Landlord a fee equal to one month's rent at the time the request to end the lease early is made; and
3) Make the request to end the lease early at least two full calendar months in advance, meaning, for example, if Resident wanted to leave on May 31 Landlord would have to receive Resident's written request to end the lease early no later than March 31.

If the Landlord agrees to end the lease early then the fee will be kept by the Landlord to help defray the costs to the Landlord caused by the early termination of the lease. If the Landlord does not agree to end the lease early then the fee will be refunded.

OK. So. Biggest mistake was not getting this in writing, clearly. I wish I'd pushed that at the time, but with so much else going on, and the property manager's verbal agreement to and cheerful acceptance of the whole thing, I let it go.

We DID give a written (emailed, anyway - if that would stand up in any way) request... we DID give a fee of one month's rent at the same time as paying our May rent (thinking about it, I think they took May's rent automatically despite our having asked them to stop the automatic payments after they double-charged everyone the previous month), and the check is notated 'inconvenience fee' (in the email request/notification of ending the lease early, my husband had laid out what the lease said, and referred to that extra fee as an 'inconvenience fee'). When we'd still heard nothing in response to the email a couple of days after sending it, my husband went to the office in person (I think he wrote out that check there and then), and as I said, the property manager apologized for not having responded to the email yet, agreed that there was no problem ending our lease early, voluntarily said that she'd be backdating the notice period to May 1 (it was May 5 or 6 by this point) as we'd tried to talk to her in person when she'd not been in the office (and the other staff had no idea about this stuff), and then followed up by sending the email which she'd not responded to. They had a perfectly friendly chat in which both acknowledged that although we'd be paying rent up until the end of June, as we'd be moving out by the end of May, we would be happy for them to re-rent the apartment before the end of June if they found a tenant. When we finally did move the last of our stuff out and clean the place from top to bottom (something I doubt many departing tenants do), they cheerfully accepted the keys when my husband returned them to the office.

This management company weren't the most competent I'd ever come across (minor annoyances, mostly, but things like the above-mentioned property manager failing to give us a copy of our lease when we first signed it as she couldn't work the photocopier, then losing the original copy for weeks so we had to ask repeatedly if we could have a copy, then losing the voided check she requested to set up automatic rent payments, followed by losing the second voided check I gave her when she mislaid the first... etc etc!), so I have to say I breathed a huge sigh of relief when everything seemed to go smoothly. And then came home tonight to find this letter demanding the rest of the year's rent and threatening to send us to collections.

Great!

Again, thanks so much for the responses - I really, really appreciate it. I'm trying to figure out how we're going to deal with this and trying not to get too stressed out (that part isn't working, I am verrrrrry stressed out!)... and mostly just kicking myself that I didn't insist on getting the agreement in writing.

Message Edited by fevmlo on 07-21-2008 10:31 PM

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:38:27 GMT

fevmlo wrote:
If the Landlord agrees to end the lease early then the fee will be kept by the Landlord to help defray the costs to the Landlord caused by the early termination of the lease. If the Landlord does not agree to end the lease early then the fee will be refunded.

That part right there may help you more than anything.

I wouldn't mention this to said landlord, as they may return the money.

Message Edited by sidewinder on 07-21-2008 07:38 PM

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:53:38 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
If the Landlord agrees to end the lease early then the fee will be kept by the Landlord to help defray the costs to the Landlord caused by the early termination of the lease. If the Landlord does not agree to end the lease early then the fee will be refunded.

That part right there may help you more than anything.

I wouldn't mention this to said landlord, as they may return the money.

Message Edited by sidewinder on 07-21-2008 07:38 PM

That's my husband's thinking, too. They certainly cashed the thing very happily while (verbally) agreeing to us breaking the lease, and asking enthusiastically about how the house purchase etc was going every time our paths crossed after that. Y'know, going on about how 'exciting' it is, and such.

What worries me is that in the letter they sent today, they basically say this:

$25 for 'extra cleaning of bathroom' (I guess they're referring to the unshiftable mould between the tiles that we were never able to get rid of no matter what cleaning product we used)
$35 for carpet cleaning
xx amount for rent for July thru December
minus xx amount 'rent credit' (prepaid rent).

They then say 'as your security deposit was only $300, there is an outstanding balance of $$$$thousands' - followed by the 'pay up within 30 days or we're sending you to collections' part.

While they HAVE agreed to our breaking the lease, they have certainly not at any point 'rejected' our request to break it - plus they accepted the keys back, etc etc etc... but I'm wondering whether that 'rent credit' constitutes a 'refund' deductable off the balance for the rest of the year that they've decided we owe....?

That said, if they're taking that as 'prepaid rent' (which it clearly wasn't, and their own lease doesn't say anything of the sort)... then our rent must be current up until the end of July, and they surely have no business demanding rent for the rest of the year...?! If they're not agreeing to let us break the lease, shouldn't they have pointed this out when my husband returned the keys in the last week of June...? if they're not letting us break the lease, then at the very least we're current on the rent and they have no call to be threatening us with collections....? The only thing I can think is that they'd sneakily deliver something to the apartment (ie under the door rather than via USPS, so it wouldn't be redirected to us) after we'd already returned the keys saying 'oh by the way, we're not letting you break your lease'...?

Ugh. Thanks again (I reallyreallyreally appreciate this!) for the responses. I can't believe they'd be so low as to cheerfully agree to everything and then turn around and do this... or rather, I can probably believe that, but not that I was stupid enough to let it happen.

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:00:33 GMT

Oh, also... the 'rent credit (prepaid rent)' that is listed on the letter we received today (ie the fee we gave them upfront for breaking the lease) isn't even listed correctly. We paid a fee of one month's rent, $820. They've listed $855 on the letter, for some reason best known to themselves. And dated the whole thing July 2009, to boot.

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:28:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
If the Landlord agrees to end the lease early then the fee will be kept by the Landlord to help defray the costs to the Landlord caused by the early termination of the lease. If the Landlord does not agree to end the lease early then the fee will be refunded.

That part right there may help you more than anything.

I wouldn't mention this to said landlord, as they may return the money.

Message Edited by sidewinder on 07-21-2008 07:38 PM

Luckily, in her state, restrictive endorsements ARE legally binding. They're best enforced IF the check were accompanied by a formal written agreement, but it doesn't seem that it's necessary!

Congrats, Fem!! I think you're going to be fine!!!

FTR, the provision is Ohio Rev. Code 1303.40 (A)

Yannow ... just in case you decide to toss it in their faces.

After all, WHY in the world, if they DIDN'T agree to an EARLY termination of your lease, WHY, WHY, WHY would there BE an "inconvenience fee?" Right?!

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:54:31 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
If the Landlord agrees to end the lease early then the fee will be kept by the Landlord to help defray the costs to the Landlord caused by the early termination of the lease. If the Landlord does not agree to end the lease early then the fee will be refunded.

That part right there may help you more than anything.

I wouldn't mention this to said landlord, as they may return the money.

Message Edited by sidewinder on 07-21-2008 07:38 PM

Luckily, in her state, restrictive endorsements ARE legally binding. They're best enforced IF the check were accompanied by a formal written agreement, but it doesn't seem that it's necessary!

Congrats, Fem!! I think you're going to be fine!!!

FTR, the provision is Ohio Rev. Code 1303.40 (A)

Yannow ... just in case you decide to toss it in their faces.

After all, WHY in the world, if they DIDN'T agree to an EARLY termination of your lease, WHY, WHY, WHY would there BE an "inconvenience fee?" Right?!

Now THIS sounds promising... thankyouthankyouthankyou!!

Just to get my slow brain around this... 'restrictive endorsements' would be endorsing a check to say that it's payment to be used for a specific purpose... right? And so by cashing the check, they're acknowledging that that's what they're taking the payment for? Either that orrrr.... they're cashing a check they have no business to be cashing...?

I need to ask around at work tomorrow and see if anyone knows of any local lawyery types well versed in dealing with unpleasant landlords - hopefully we have at least some chance of getting them to back down on this before they charmingly turn us over to some scummy collection agency. I'm really NOT looking forward to having AmEx snatch away my cards and treat me like a criminal if this hits our CRs, but I fully expect that that's what'll happen if it does. Although I suppose compared to being taken to court, that'd be the least of our worries. UGH!

Again... thank you so, so much. I feel so stupid for NOT insisting on getting the agreement in writing - I think just having got a friendly verbal agreement from the property manager, and knowing how getting anything (copy of lease after original signing, setup of automatic payments amidst losing of voided checks, any kind of helpful response beyond 'it wasn't my fault, it was the company that does the payments!' when they double-billed everyone for their April rent.... to name a few examples) from or done by said property manager has always been like pulling teeth, I just thought that I could do without the frustration. Silly me - should never underestimate the capacity of people to turn around and do... stuff like that, if they think they can get away with it!

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 04:00:49 GMT

Wonderin... just reading up on that Ohio Rev. Code 1303.40 (A) - that is interesting stuff, THANK YOU!! Everything I'm seeing is talking about checks annotated as being for payment in full, but I'm hoping these articles are just very specific examples of cashing a check meaning you accept the endorsement...!

Again, thank you so much!

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 04:24:50 GMT

You know, personally, I don't think you need to go so far as retain counsel YET (but I think you should be prepared to if worst comes to worst. And if they DO take you to court, make sure you ask for atty fees WHEN you win).

If you do decide to get someone else involved, apparently you have a fairly liberal ombudsman (specifically pertaining to LL/T issues) that might help you out and save you some $$.

Me, I think I'd take a copy of that cashed and R/E'd check and show it to the property manager, reference the code and mention that you're thinking of speaking to your Ombudsman/Joint Office of Citizen Complaints about the situation. If that doesn't faze her, mention the BBB. If that still doesn't get her attention, I'd mention that you're planning on letting EVERYONE with an ear attached to their head, know how they do "business" (and I use the term VERY loosely).

But FIRST, I'd talk to her personally and make sure this isn't some sort of clerical error. She might have honestly forgotten about the convo and seeing yours and hubby's sweet faces might remind her of what she agreed to (and this time, get it in writing!! -- Sorry, couldn't resist).

Our property manager signs durn nigh anything that gets put in front of her. And most days, she's so swamped that she barely knows her own name! I'd personally give your PM the benefit of the doubt UNTIL you've spoken to her, face-to-face.

If after seeing your faces and being reminded of the convo, she still stands by the crap she's pulling, THEN let her know about the R/E and the fact that they cashed the check (and yes, it was an example .. the actual code contains no such examples).

At least, that's what I'd do. But you'd be safer than sorry if you used a free consult and talked to an atty who specializes in LL/T or consumer law.

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:11:14 GMT

Hi Wonderin (and anyone else reading),

Got up this morning to discover that our internet & cable service was down after last night's storms - so have just had time to check this thread sneakily now, as I'm about to leave work!

Today I asked around some colleagues to see if anyone could suggest a local attorney who deals in this stuff, just in case it comes down to it, and after a bit of email forwarding (involving a large number of messages from people I don't know saying 'what company is that, that sounds like some lowlifes I rented from last year!' and similar), had a few sympathetic strangers put me in touch with lawyer friends/family members/spouses - I'm quite encouraged that the response seems to be 'they can't do that', basically. Had a call from someone's attorney friend about an hour ago, who said, like you, that he really can't see we'll be needing to retain counsel or spend any money on lawyers, we just need to tell them that they can't do it and they know it, and that having talked to a lawyer, we know it too!

So... deep breath... I think we're going to be fine. But... oh how I wish I had that (and everything else) in writing!

Thank you so so much, again... I will be reporting back on what happens next, if anyone is interested! I just hope what happens next is good... I sooo don't want to be wrangling with scumbag collection agencies. But there is no WAY we are backing down and being bullied on this (they agreed to it and they know it!), and no WAY they are getting one cent out of us.

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:41:29 GMT

Glad to hear that I'm not the only one who thinks they're in the wrong and won't prevail!!!

But I have to ask: did you ever talk to her and make sure the renegging was on PURPOSE? And not some stupid, albeit unintentional, mistake?? Or have you had enough experience with her to really believe without a shred of doubt that she'd pull something like this??

I'm really, really, really hoping that it's a mistake. You're good people. And even though I know that there's BAD people out there that would love to stick it to good people, I'm hopin' beyond hope that ain't the case here!!!

Please do NOT forget to keep us posted!!!!!

{{{{{Hugs!!}}}}

PS -- You know, this may be a total pain in the butt for you guys, but at least it didn't happen while you were apping for your mortgage!!!

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:54:45 GMT

.... am shuddering at the very thought of all this happening during the mortgage-apping! (shudder!!!)

We (and by 'we', I mean, 'my husband', who is likely to remain calmer and less shouty than me) called today to try to speak to her, but got the usual highly-screened voicemail (which never, ever results in a return call)... he then sent a VERY friendly email attaching all relevant docs and sweetly reminding her of what we'd agreed to, and saying that he's sure it's all an oversight/mixup/etc, and that he just needs her to confirm that all the ugly threats and the like are just a slightly embarrassing mistake. (Well, those weren't his exact words, but you get the picture - he was very very friendly indeed!)

That was sent this morning, about 10 o'clock... no response. He did call back and finally someone in the office answered, but our lovely former property manager was 'not available', so he (nicely) asked if they could ask her to check her email and call back. Which she hasn't.

I can't quite say I ever thought she'd pull something like this (if I had ever thought such a thing, I'd have been there typing out her agreement to our breaking the lease and standing over her while she signed it!), she's always seemed more of the 'deliberately scatterbrained, passively obstructive' type than downright vindictive, but... after all this, I'm not so sure.

We should be meeting with a fiance-of-someone-at-work (who also happens to be a lawyer) on Thursday, who has a) said 'THEY CAN'T DO THAT!' and b) very kindly offered to meet up with us. If we don't hear anything from 'her' tomorrow, I think we'll know she's going the 'la la la la, I can't hear you' route I'm so used to, and that all the demands for money and threats of collections are obviously quite deliberate. I really want to go and see what she has to say face to face, but that would involve taking a chunk of the day off work, as that office isn't open at any useful time and is miles from where we now live and even further from where we work.

We shall see... but thank you for the excellent (and normal-breathing-pattern-restoring) advice, the good wishes and the virtual hugs... and I will most DEFINITELY be reporting back on how this pans out! We are not, NOT backing down, and they will not be getting a penny off of us unless and until a judge expressly requires us to do so. Which I really hope they won't, and I will fight all the way!

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:20:53 GMT

I swear to you that I am NOT trying to beat this dying equus with a hammer, but did your hubby mention the "L" word at all? Perhaps a wording such as "We hope this is a silly misunderstanding as we really would prefer not to have to use the services of our retained counsel"?

I really think that if she's as purposefully dense as you say, she might not respond otherwise. From how little I know of how property management works (I'm lucky enough to have a GOOD one and be on VERY friendly terms with her), any lawsuit YOU bring will make her, needless to say, look VERY bad. Taking "deadbeats" to court is one thing, BEING sued is quite another.

Our PM gets rattled at the very mention of the "L" word ... even if the complaint is groundless and ridiculous. If she doesn't settle a situation prior to a lawsuit, she looks BAD to the "Home Office" and they let her KNOW that.

I really can't imagine that your PM would have more support than mine. Especially since silly complaints aside (one was "the grass is too wet after the sprinklers have been on"), she gets LOTS of support and kudo to the Home Office from we tenants. LOTS. And yet she still worries herself silly over the silly complaints.

I'd think about it. Really. It might stop her crap dead in her tracks ... and result in no more stress for YOU.

Okay, I'm done playing Mommy and nagging!

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:54:32 GMT

Hmmmmm, I'm thinking the "L" word might need mentioning to her TOMORROW (even though we're not meeting with one of those "L" people until Thursday), and was saying as much to Mr. Husband this evening.

(But before I go any further and forget to type this, I have to say I was thinking for about a nanosecond, "L word? Do you think my husband should go and profess undying love to the property manager????" - that might throw her off guard a bit, I suppose!)

Anyway, where was I? Oh yeah - nope, there has been no mention of legal professionals from us at this point, which I think there really should be, given that it's not very, uh, nice of them to send us demands for large amounts of money we don't owe them with threats of debt collectors if we don't pay up PDQ. Most unsporting, that! I was going to call earlier (a fruitless effort, that would have been, as I KNOW phones and voicemail messages forever go unanswered unless it suits them) to point out in my most reasonable tones that they know they're out of line, we know they're out of line, and we'd rather not go to all the hassle of involving lawyers, but won't hesitate to do so if it comes to it. But I resisted the urge to call, because I knew full well that it was bound to result in lots of outraged shoutiness from my end. I think they need calling (or better still, visiting, by my infinitely more laid-back husband) tomorrow, though, and I think she needs talking to in person.

I think you're right, though... that 'L' word might just work wonders with this one. I mentioned the horrible mess we and the vast majority of the other tenants (our old complex had 200-and-something units in it) found ourselves in when our rent was double-billed one not-very-fine April morning. Obviously finding two months rent disappearing from your account unexpectedly leads to all kinds of overdraft-related unpleasantness (not to mention finding that you have not one penny in your bank account for the whole weekend... and beyond), but our property manager, the person in charge of the rental of every single one of those units, was singularly unconcerned & thoroughly unhelpful in dealing with the whole thing, placing the blame squarely on 'the company that handles the payments' but refusing to provide any contact details for them, while also giving no indication of when we (and everyone else) might see our money back.

Then our friendly 'it could happen to anyone, it must suck having all these angry tenants yelling at you, keep your chin up, girl!' approach turned a bit less friendly when we got to about day three with no sign of our money... one email saying, 'look, we've been pretty reasonable about this but as you know we're buying a house, we're meeting with our loan officer next week, and a pile of bank statements full of overdraft fees won't really impress' (with a hint of 'we hate to say this, but if this messes up our credit and/or we get turned down for a mortgage because of this... we're going to be talking to a lawyer'), and suddenly she was all action - putting in special requests to the 'payment company' to get our money back ASAP, copying us in on said emails, etc etc (all the while pointing out with every breath that it wasn't her fault and she didn't do it). Speaking to other tenants, I found out that even though we waited 4 days to get any money back and over a week to recover all the overdraft fees, we got our money days before anyone else, as far as I know (I'm guessing anyone else who said 'lawyer!' might have had the same or better luck)...

... I ramble, as usual, but my point was that yep, in our experience, that L word does at least spur her into some kind of action, and it might be time to use it again!

Sorry for the ramble, and... thank you, again! I will be reporting back...

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

demi — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:34:49 GMT

What a mess !!! These people sound completely incompetent.

In reading your nightmare, I can't help but think maybe what is happening here is that the onsite property manager is possibly being overruled by the powers that be? Just a possibility. Not sure how it helps in any way, but I just find it unbelievable that they could be that incompetent.

Get em

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:47:43 GMT

unless i'm reading this wrong, and chances are i am , in the letter you got containing the final bill, they credited you the rent credit or inconvenience fee.

if that's the case, it sounds like the landlord didn't approve breaking the lease early. it could be that the management company doesn't own the building itself and can't make those kinds of decisions ont heir own. that's how my buildings are set up. a management company shows it, gets the lease signed, collects the rent, arranges for repairs, handles evictions, blah blah blah, but i make all final decisions on breaking leases, approving renters, etc.

they should be more clear, return calls and things like that so you can get the matter cleared up and get on with your life. bad business practices and i'd be upset if i knew my management company behaved that way. especially since they get 8% of my rents!

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:35:40 GMT

katecrime wrote:
unless i'm reading this wrong, and chances are i am , in the letter you got containing the final bill, they credited you the rent credit or inconvenience fee.

That's what had been worrying me (well, one of many things that had been worrying me!) - although to 'refund' it via a threatening letter 11 full weeks after we paid it seemed a bit... strange.

ANYWAY! I have news! My husband emailed the property manager again this morning and tried to call (leaving an unanswered voicemail and a message with another member of the office staff who yet again said they'd pass on the message), but there was no response. So I followed up on his friendly, "I'm sure this is all just an oversight, please clarify ASAP" email with one that mentioned that dreaded "L" word. Maybe she has her spam filter set to delete all emails except those that contain the words 'lawyer' or 'attorney', as this one seemed to trigger a response. We had a reply pretty quickly saying that we're right, it's all a big mixup, and she must have done her math wrong when figuring out our refund from the security deposit (yeah, I can see how it would be easy to calculate that refund as 'PAY US THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OR WE'RE SENDING IN THE DEBT COLLECTORS!' ) - and that far from demanding large amounts of money from us within the next thirty days, what they actually meant to say was that they're going to be sending us a nice refund check today.

HOW relieved am I?!?! Thank you all so, so much for all the replies and advice!!

(note to self: ALWAYS GET IT - whatever 'it' may be - IN WRITING!)

Re: Former Landlord Trying to Collect Rent?

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:45:23 GMT

Well! Huge congrats! And I was getting ready to say that if they can so freely throw around the C word (collections), you can certainly use the L word!

I'm glad it worked (whatever it was that worked), and I hope that these people will be out of your hair PDQ.

I'm sure that you've already printed out five copies of the new e-mail and hidden them safely away, but with her track record, I would also ask for a letter stating that everything is settled, and that you owe absolutely zero. Because I'd hate for this to pop back up five years from now, when this dingbat has moved on, and a whole new dingbat has taken over.