topic Re: Mechanic's lien? in General Credit Topics

Mechanic's lien?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:48:52 GMT

Not sure this is the correct place to put this, but if anyone can point me in the right direction it would be great.

Long story short, just bought a house and moved out of a Rental. Former Landlord is being a jerk. After living there for 6 years, he is trying to charge me for every little thing he can (even some stuff he can't). Anyhow, I have already written off my deposit as I don't really have the time to fight it at this point, but he told me that if the repairs he wants to charge me for are more than the deposit he would file a Mechanic's lien against the house I just bought in order to get his money.

1) can he even file the lien against my house even though all the repairs are to the house he owns that I just moved out of?

2)How can I fight this if he tries to do this?

3) does this go on my credit report and if so for how long?

Any insight would be great.

Re: Mechanic's lien?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:09:37 GMT

One thing I've learned in my past is never do business with private landlords and stick to reputable property management companies that are part of associations.

A mechanics lien? Isint that for the protection of contractors? I dont see the relevence of a mechanics lien with correlation to the lease agreement and the landlord.

1. The only time he can put a lien on your personal property (I'm not sure about the laws in your state, but I'm in TX) is if he were to obtain an abstract judgement from the court. But even he obtained an abstract judgement, he would need to file a complaint against you in small claims. There is just no way in heck that he can go up to your house and put a notice of lien. Its ridiculous.

2. If I were you, I would start looking up your state property codes and go over your lease. Find where in the lease does it say that he can obtain such lien.

3. If he wanted to, he could assign your account to a collection agency. Or if he obtained the abstract judgement, then its a public record that will go on to your reports.

Your landlord needs to prove to a judge in court that you are responsible for the damages. Also, I would send out a letter CMRR requesting an itemized statement of the deductions he is making to your deposit. Have you taken pictures when you left the premise? Once again, please do some research on your states property code when it comes to rental properties and deposits. Keep us informed!

Re: Mechanic's lien?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 19:22:56 GMT

The first thing I would do is look up the Landlord Tenant laws in your state. By law they are limited to what they can and can not charge you for.

Normal wear and tear is one of them.

There is also laws that say they must, in writing, tell you why you are not getting your deposit back.

Re: Mechanic's lien?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 23:58:54 GMT

Um, I'm 99.9% sure that your LL is full of puppy poop.

A mechanic's lien is a legal process to guarantee the payment for improvements or repairs to real property (or vehicles). So unless your LL is either a contractor, supplier or builder who improved and/or repaired your new home, he's outta luck.

But you gotta hand it to him ... I'd be too embarrassed to show my stupidity like that. His mother must be so proud.
(Yeah, I'm wearing my Cranky Pants. LLs trying to manipulate their tenants with ridiculous crap often does that to me)

Now, could he take you to court and obtain a judgment lien? Yep.

Can he, a LL and NOT a vendor who has NOTHING to do with the improvement, purchase or build of YOUR new home, file a MECHANIC'S lien? Nope. The repairs done to HIS home (that you rented) have nothing to do with YOUR home.

Those are two different animals (think of a horse vs a monkey -- THAT different of animals). If he's spouting off about specifically filing a ML against you for repairs done to HIS home, you're dealing with someone who believes that their FAR more intelligent than they are.

Tell your doofy LL that failure to pay for repairs to rented real property would fall under LL/Tenant law -- and that, AFAIK, has never left open the option of filing a ML.

Re: Mechanic's lien?

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:43:24 GMT

Thanks a ton for confirming that my thinking was not out of line. Now I just have to wait for him to send me the itemized list and copies of reciepts. Believe me I am keeping a very close eye on the 21-day window he has to do so in California.

Re: Mechanic's lien?

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:00:52 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks a ton for confirming that my thinking was not out of line. Now I just have to wait for him to send me the itemized list and copies of reciepts. Believe me I am keeping a very close eye on the 21-day window he has to do so in California.

You know, I'm just having a snotty thought here, but you wanna know what I think? I've been puzzling over why your LL would bandy about a term like Mechanic's Lien while having (obviously) no clue what it really is ... it's just not really that common a term, you know?

I bet HE has one on his home. He prolly made the connection of -- Repairs made on property + Not paid for + Owns home = Mechanic's Lien.

Just saying. :/

Anywho, good luck!! Go get'em Darlin'!!!

If he says squatola to you about owing an obscene amount of money, you come right back here and holler. One thing I've had oodles of experience with is LL/Tenant law (don't ask).

Re: Mechanic's lien?

Itsmeagain — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:34:01 GMT

I had a similar situation with a LL. I had cleaned the apartment, replaced any bulbs, cleaned the fridge, stove and fireplace, etc, etc. However, I suspected something like this from him because I had seen how he had treated other renters and so I was prepared.

First, I photographed each room after cleaning (with a copy of the daily news lying in a conspicuous place). When the time came for the final inspection and turning over the keys, I invited two friends over. In their presence, I handed over the keys and asked how everything looked. He said "looks OK to me".

Two months later, after requesting my deposit in writing, I received a bill from him for $1,200. According to his statement, he had 2 men work two days cleaning the apartment; had replaced blinds, cleaned the filthy fridge, threw out spoiled food, had to replace burners on the stove, painted, etc. His bill was actually $1,700 but he deducted my $500 deposit.

So, to make a long story short, I filed on HIM in small claims court for my $500 deposit. On court day he produced not one shred of evidence. I had the photos, the actual newspaper I had used in the photos and my two friends to testify to what he had said at turnover.

The judge considered for about 30 seconds and awarded me $500 plus court costs.

It felt good to show this bully that not everyone will just roll over and take his abuse.

Re: Mechanic's lien?

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:33:01 GMT

Well, it looks like it is Game on! Wonderin if you are still availabel to help here is everything he sent me. I am 99% sure if this went to court I coul make him eat the rest, but I am not too sure how to word the resonce to him. Here is what he sent me. I blacked out the names and what-not. Any help at all would be greatly appriciated.

**Removed images as they were inadvertantly replaced on the hosting site**

Message Edited by JR2475 on 01-30-2009 07:32 AM

Message Edited by JR2475 on 01-30-2009 07:33 AM

Re: Mechanic's lien?

203bravo — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 02:53:46 GMT

Did you actually have dogs and cats in the unit that were specifically barred per the terms of the original lease? My fear would be that if you did, you were in breech of the lease and would automatically lose.

However, did the LL ever know that you had them prior to your moving out? If he did and never said anything about it being against the lease then he technically gave his premission to keep them by not enforcing the clause in the lease.

If you acutally had no pets, then you may have a pretty strong case for considering normal wear and tear of the paint and flooring.

Message Edited by 203bravo on 01-28-2009 08:53 PM

Re: Mechanic's lien?

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 07:10:28 GMT

We told him we had pets from the very begining and he never mentioned a problem with it until about a month befoer we gave him 30 days notice after living there for 6 years. His exact words were "I would prefer outside pet" but never actually stated indoor pets were prohibited. As he states in his letter, #5 on the rental agreement prohibited pets, however I no longer have my copy to verify. That being said, I would think us talking with him about it and him knowing we had pets would void this part of the agreement.

Message Edited by JR2475 on 01-28-2009 11:10 PM

Re: Mechanic's lien?

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:18:33 GMT

I think, and this is just pure supposition (with a teeny bit of experience tossed in), you're boned on the carpet (which is only $600 + change). Only because, since you didn't pay him a pet deposit which would have "covered" the costs of cleaning the carpets and whatnot, it's kinda over and beyond. If that makes sense?

That being said, unless your pet got the munchies and actually ATE the carpet, I don't see why it can't just be cleaned?? Carpet cleaners nowadays can even get out cat pee (gross) -- the house we just bought had cat pee smell and they took care of it so well, you'd NEVER know the previous owner had a pet at ALL. Cleaning our 3 bedroom home (carpets in all bedrooms and in the immense living room) only cost us $200, with "pet stain and odor" removal.

My big ish would be with the paint. $2K to paint even every wall in the house is just frigging ridiculous. And I'd LOVE to know what damage your pet supposedly did to the wall that necessitates $2K worth of work. Unless your pooch or kitty (or both) clawed or peed on every single fricking wall of the house, I'd tell'em to go pound sand.

I ain't touching the horrible, amazingly sad spelling on what's supposed to be a legally binding document. I mean, misspellings in a forum or in personal life is 100% diff than misspellings on legal doc (which is, by law, what he sent you regarding the damages).

I hate to say this and sound like a jerk, but I really don't see a judge taking him seriously. He really sounds as though he was totally unprepared in the area of being a landlord, had no idea of the costs of being a landlord and is trying to ping you for his lack of knowledge.

Demand pictures.

Demand a more thorough breakdown of the costs.

AND demand, demand, DEMAND competitive quotes for the supposed damages. He is NOT allowed to get only one quote per incident and leave it at that. He HAS to get at least THREE. Then YOU get to choose the one he needs to go with, AKA, the cheapest.

If he doesn't have at least 3 quotes, AND documented pics and descriptions of the damage (simply saying "your dog peed" ain't good enough), he'd never, EVER win in court. Unless you just didn't show up.

Re: Mechanic's lien?

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:24:12 GMT

Write him a letter, CMRRR (sounds silly, but you DO want a paper trail) stating that you would like to meet and do a walk-through of the home so he can show you the repairs needed.

(Take a camera and take LOTS of pictures -- NEXT time, take pics BEFORE you move out!!)

Add that you would like to see additional quotes for the allegedly needed repairs. He CAN refuse, but if it goes to court, that's a BIG mark against him.

Tell him that you would like more descriptive quotes/breakdowns. Instead of just "Labor and Materials," you expect to see something along the lines of "Labor to remove pee stain on bedroom wall" (as an example).

Tell him that you would like to see better descriptions on HIS end of the damages. Like I said, simply saying "Your dog peed and there's damages" ain't good enough, It sure as hell won't stand up in a court of law.

Re: Mechanic's lien?

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:40:18 GMT

Well now we run into an interestng situation as I did not recieve this letter until 26 days after vacating and all the repairs have been done. I am going to call the local fair housing board today as well as a lawyer friend and get some advice, but as far as I know at this point the only pictures that exist are a couple of the carpet he took 2 months before we moved out. As I stated to him, I know some of the damage is our fault and am more than willing to give up the $1500 deposit and not a penny more, even though from my calculations he should only be abel to charge us about $706 total based on the 6 years we lived there vs. average life expectancy of paint/carpet as decided by the courts in the State of California.

Re: Mechanic's lien?

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:04:13 GMT

Well after a Long conversation with the Fair housing board and my lawyer friend, it turns out that we were correct as what we should legally owe him. On top of that I have several other violation to add to the list now. I'm not a mean person and feel, even though I don't legally owe it to him, it would be fair to let him keep my deposit. After he receives this letter I am sending him, if he still wants to push the issue and take it to court, I have more than enough to wipe the floor with him an may be entitled to my full deposit back plus damages up to $7500. I still haven't decided yet if I will include a paragraph calling him out on his ignorance regarding the mechanic's lien or not though. I will keep this updated for any who are interested

Re: Mechanic's lien?

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:37:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Well after a Long conversation with the Fair housing board and my lawyer friend, it turns out that we were correct as what we should legally owe him. On top of that I have several other violation to add to the list now. I'm not a mean person and feel, even though I don't legally owe it to him, it would be fair to let him keep my deposit. After he receives this letter I am sending him, if he still wants to push the issue and take it to court, I have more than enough to wipe the floor with him an may be entitled to my full deposit back plus damages up to $7500. I still haven't decided yet if I will include a paragraph calling him out on his ignorance regarding the mechanic's lien or not though. I will keep this updated for any who are interested

Well, honestly, a gajillion congrats on getting it sorted out!! LL/Tenant laws/situations are NEVER easy -- and you just managed to cut through the bull-poop that often takes severe wrangling in court to resolve!!

For the mechanic's lien (forgive me, I really did just giggle at that), you could say

"Please note, as (insert state legal code here) states, a mechanic's lien can only be levied against real property in situations where unpaid repairs were made on the real property in question. As no repairs were ever made on the domicile at (your address), no mechanic's lien can legally be filed against that property. To attempt to do so would be in violation of (restate the legal code). Further, only contractors and vendors can levy such liens and as a landlord, you lack the status, legal ability and grounds to do so."

If you just want to spank him verbally for the crap and stress he just put you through (and for not taking the time to proof read or spellcheck a legal document), you could just ask him how in the HECK he planned to levy a ML against YOUR property when the repairs were made on HIS property.

Re: Mechanic's lien?

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:16:13 GMT

Here is my responce to him. It's a bit long winded, however I feel I must explain everything in depth to this clown. I also included your statement regarding the Mechanic's lien, but that was after I scanned in these copies. Sorry for the qaulity, I had to scan them and post an image in order to be able to post.

Re: Mechanic's lien?

Mark_in_Pasadena — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:35:56 GMT

You've handled this very well. You've been more than fair and reasonable.

When I first read your posts I was a little on the side of the landlord due to my knowledge of the damage that pets can do to floors, especially carpeting. I've been to some foreclosed homes where pets had lived before and the stench of urine was so bad that there was no way I could ever see it being removed by any means other than replacement.

I wonder how many mechanic's lien's he's been issued on his property. I'm sure it's many since it was at the tip of his tongue as something that he believed he could place on you...just amazingly ridiculous.

Well done, and please keep us updated!