topic Re: Credit Line Update in General Credit Topics

What is the best route for me to take so that my FICO score goes up to ~850?

shniku — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:22:47 GMT

Hello All,

I am trying to see what is the best route to take so that I can have a FICO score of ~850. So

that it would be easier to understand where Istand, I will briefly describe my credit biography.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

About four years ago, when I was 18, I started opening credit cards. To date, I have opened

14 credit cards. To date, only 8 of them are active. Out of the 6 that were closed, only 3 of them

were closed by the grantor. The other 3, I closed myself, way before I knew that closing credit

cards is a no-no.

These are all of my OPEN accounts:

Chase Credit Card - $20,000 limit - $ 0 balance

Chase Credit Card - $900 limit - $ 0 balance

CITI Credit Card - $1,800 limit - $ 0 balance

CITI Credit Card - $1,700 limit - $ 0 balance

PayPal Credit Card - $3,550 limit - $ 0 balance

AmEx Credit Card - $500 limit - $ 0 balance

Best Buy Store Card - $2,000 limit - $ 0 balance

Macy's Store Card - $800 limit - $ 0 balance

Total Limit: $31,250

Total Revolving Utilization: 0%

Chase Auto Loan - $2,625

Sallie Mae Student Loan - $16,183

These are all of my CLOSED accounts:

Bank of America Credit Card - Closed by grantor - $4000 limit

Bank of America Credit Card - Closed by grantor - $500 limit

Chase Credit Card - Closed by grantor - $500 limit

AmEx Credit Card - Closed by me - limit not given

HSBC Credit Card - Closed by me - $500 limit

GEMB Credit Card - Closed by me - $450 limit

FICO Formula = 350+(P)175+(A)150+(L)75+(N)50+(T)50

P = Payment History

L = Length of Credit History

A = Amounts Owed

N = New Credit

T = Types of Credit

This is what I think the variables are for me:

P = Payment History = 100% (I was never late on payments)

L = Length of Credit History = ~20% (average age = 2 years; oldest account = 4 years)

A = Amounts Owed = 100% (Does the auto loan and the student loan count in this?)

N = New Credit = ~50% -just a guess

T = Types of Credit = ~80% -just a guess

My FICO Score = 350+(100%)175+(100%)150+(20%)75+(50%)50+(80%)50 = 755 (FICO ScoreWatch says my score is 756)

Message Edited by shniku on 02-14-2010 05:22 AM

Re: What is the best route for me to take so that my FICO score goes up to ~850?

shniku — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:53:34 GMT

In theory, I would beable to open 10,000 accounts now, so that any account I get in the future wouldbarely affect the Length of Credit History .This would lower the Length of Credit History to a minimum; however once it starts going up, opening new cards barely affectsthe length. The only thing that I would need to sacrifice are the 20%of 75 points that I currently have for Length of Credit History .

In practice one cannot open hundreds of cards in a short period of time, (unless you are Walter Cavanagh who has 1,496 credit cards).Trying to do so in this day and age would immediately make me look verysuspicious, and I will just get declined each time. Not only that, but they mayeven close my current accounts or do credit line decreases.

Not opening any newcredit cards now can be quite dangerous as well. The Length of Credit History wouldgo down quite a bit if I open a new card in the future, since I only have 8cards. What's to say that I will even have 8? Maybe the banks would get meanand close all but 2 cards. Then if I open up a new card, it will remove 33% ofthe Length of Credit History . My father hadone card, and 14 years later, he opened another. It cut his Length of Credit History in half.

So to all you FICO Masters out there: What is the best route for me to take so that my FICOscore goes up to ~850?

My Other Questions:

- What else besides "no missed payments" can affect the 175 points for Payment History ?
- How do you think the 75 points for Length of Credit History are calculated ?
- Does the auto loan and the student loan affect the 150 points for Amounts Owed ?
- How do you think the 50 points for New Credit are calculated ?

- How can I get all the 50 points for Types of Credit ?

- How can I get my credit limits up the fastest way?

Message Edited by shniku on 02-14-2010 06:53 AM

Re: What is the best route for me to take so that my FICO score goes up to ~850?

llecs — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:07:43 GMT

shniku wrote:
These are all of my OPEN accounts:
Chase Credit Card   - $20,000 limit   - $ 0 balance
Chase Credit Card   - $900 limit    - $ 0 balance
CITI Credit Card   - $1,800 limit   - $ 0 balance
CITI Credit Card   - $1,700 limit   - $ 0 balance
PayPal Credit Card   - $3,550 limit   - $ 0 balance
AmEx Credit Card   - $500 limit     - $ 0 balance
Best Buy Store Card   - $2,000 limit   - $ 0 balance
Macy's Store Card   - $800 limit   - $ 0 balance

Total Limit: $31,250
Total Revolving Utilization: 0%

You might see a few extra points added if you let one CC report a balance of under 9%, assuming that all of these are reporting $0 now. I don't know what that magic amount is for you. Could be 1%, 2%, a few bucks. Also, be sure to use each of your CCs (you can always PIF) every 3-4 months to avoid closure by the CCC.

shniku wrote:
FICO Formula = 350+(P)175+(A)150+(L)75+(N)50+(T)50

My FICO Score = 350+(100%)175+(100%)150+(20%)75+(50%)50+(80%)50 = 755 (FICO ScoreWatch says my score is 756)

You can't calculate it that way though. While a coincidence, your formula doesn't account for scoring buckets. Scoring items, like AAoA, count more for some over others.

Re: What is the best route for me to take so that my FICO score goes up to ~850?

llecs — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:16:17 GMT

If your goal is to get to 850, then the best route is to open no accounts. Both open and closed accounts factor into AAoA. Closed accounts will continue to report for 10 yrs from when you closed it. Sometimes you get lucky and they continue reporting beyond that.

Your mix of credit is fine. Continue on the past you are on and I bet you'll hit 800 within the next few years if you don't open any new accounts and keep util in check.

Re: What is the best route for me to take so that my FICO score goes up to ~850?

Jazzzy — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:44:39 GMT

shniku wrote:
In theory, I would beable to open 10,000 accounts now, so that any account I get in the future wouldbarely affect the Length of Credit History. Adding new accounts won't change your length of credit history. That number is based on your oldest reporting account, whether that account is open or closed. My length of credit history is currently based on an old BofA account that I opened in 1983 and closed in 2001.
This would lower the Length of Credit History to a minimum; however once it starts going up, opening new cards barely affectsthe length. The only thing that I would need to sacrifice are the 20%of 75 points that I currently have for Length of Credit History . I think what you may mean here (instead of length of credit history) is Average Age of Accounts (AAoA). You are right, that your AAoA will decrease each time you add a new account. This is always sort of a one-step-back, two-steps-forward process. A new account will negatively affect your AAoA, but, once those accounts age (and you keep them in good shape), they are golden.

In practice one cannot open hundreds of cards in a short period of time, (unless you are Walter Cavanagh who has 1,496 credit cards).Trying to do so in this day and age would immediately make me look verysuspicious, and I will just get declined each time. Not only that, but they mayeven close my current accounts or do credit line decreases. You are correct that opening a lot of accounts, at some point, adds nothing to your FICOs...and likely begins to hurt them. I currently have a red flag on my "number of accounts." I have school loans that keep transferring between lenders, so I'm up to 35 accounts (only 7 of those are ccs). The red flag tells me it is hurting my score. I think that, on average, myFICO tells you that FICO high achievers don't have all that many cards. And, in today's credit climate, you are correct that with lots of apps, you will start to be denied + have the possibility of harming your current accounts.

Not opening any newcredit cards now can be quite dangerous as well. The Length of Credit History wouldgo down quite a bit if I open a new card in the future, since I only have 8cards. What's to say that I will even have 8? Maybe the banks would get meanand close all but 2 cards. Then if I open up a new card, it will remove 33% ofthe Length of Credit History . My father hadone card, and 14 years later, he opened another. It cut his Length of Credit History in half. I understand your point about there being strength in numbers when it comes to your AAoA (not length of credit history). You may eventually have auto loans or mortgages that enter into your history as well. Remember, however, that your closed accounts will still count in that average for a long time.

So to all you FICO Masters out there: What is the best route for me to take so that my FICOscore goes up to ~850? What would I do? I would let your accounts age. Keep your perfect payment history. I would apply selectively for cards or other loans, maybe 1-2x per year. A score of ~850 is something that takes time. What I would NOT do is to open any type of account that could be considered "consumer finance." Be somewhat wary of your no-money-down-no-interest-for-a-long-time deals such as for furniture, etc. unless you know how it reports. For a credit mix, they are referring to revolving, installment, and mortgage. Don't however, sacrifice dollars for FICO score. A good FICO score is supposed to help us, not cost us. There may be times that you make a purchase or close a deal that could temporarily ding your FICO but makes sense to your wallet. That's OK.

My Other Questions:

- What else besides "no missed payments" can affect the 175 points for Payment History ?
- How do you think the 75 points for Length of Credit History are calculated ?
- Does the auto loan and the student loan affect the 150 points for Amounts Owed ?
- How do you think the 50 points for New Credit are calculated ?
- How can I get all the 50 points for Types of Credit ?

I can't really answer the rest of your questions because I don't know. The FICO formulas (and there are many different ones) are not something that we know.

You're on the right track. Don't be obsessed by it. Be patient...and good luck.

Re: What is the best route for me to take so that my FICO score goes up to ~850?

smallfry — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:30:09 GMT

@llecs wrote:
If your goal is to get to 850, then the best route is to open no accounts. Both open and closed accounts factor into AAoA. Closed accounts will continue to report for 10 yrs from when you closed it. Sometimes you get lucky and they continue reporting beyond that.

Your mix of credit is fine. Continue on the past you are on and I bet you'll hit 800 within the next few years if you don't open any new accounts and keep util in check.

The best way to approach 820-850 is to stop applying for new accounts. AAofA is the number one killer that you cannot do a thing about but wait. High utilization can be cured by writing a check.

Re: What is the best route for me to take so that my FICO score goes up to ~850?

shniku — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:09:26 GMT

If I upgrade my Macy's card to a VISA card, would this make a new account, or just the same account with the ability to use it in other locations? I would like to do the same for the Best Buy card, and make it a MasterCard.

For the Macy's card, I told the associate to put in the application for the Visa card, but she didn't think I would get it, so she just put for a regular card without me even knowing. I doubt there is anything I can do about that.

Re: What is the best route for me to take so that my FICO score goes up to ~850?

elaine829 — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:04:31 GMT

The macys visa is a new account. I dont have one but on another thread people wa saying that it reports as a another tradeline. I do have a macys store card.

Re: Credit Line Update

shniku — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:02:26 GMT

I did some credit line increase requests online, and got three CLI's. Didn't bother with the Chase accounts. The other CITI said something like "You must have the account open for at least six months prior to requesting an increase." The account is at least two years old so don't know why it said that. I couldn't find the credit line increase request link anywhere on the Macy's site nor the AmEx site.

These are all of my OPEN accounts:

Chase Credit Card - $20,000 limit

Chase Credit Card - $900 limit

CITI Credit Card - $1,800 limit +1000 -----> $2,800

CITI Credit Card - $1,700 limit

PayPal Credit Card - $3,550 limit +750 -----> $4,300

AmEx Credit Card - $500 limit

Best Buy Store Card - $2,000 limit +800 -----> 2,800

Macy's Store Card - $800 limit

Total Limit: $31,250 ------> $33.800 (my goal is to get $2,000,000 as a total limit so any advice will help)

Re: What is the best route for me to take so that my FICO score goes up to ~850?

haulingthescoreup — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:47:24 GMT

shniku wrote:

If I upgrade my Macy's card to a VISA card, would this make a new account, or just the same account with the ability to use it in other locations? I would like to do the same for the Best Buy card, and make it a MasterCard.

For the Macy's card, I told the associate to put in the application for the Visa card, but she didn't think I would get it, so she just put for a regular card without me even knowing. I doubt there is anything I can do about that.

I'll let the Macy's crowd report on whether that switch to the Visa will cause a new TL to report.

As for the BB card, leave it as a store card. You'll get much higher CL's with the store version than the MC. Unlike most other store cards, this one is more valuable than the affiliation (store + bank) card.

Re: Credit Line Update

haulingthescoreup — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:52:27 GMT

shniku wrote:

Total Limit: $31,250 ------> $33.800 (my goal is to get $2,000,000 as a total limit...)

Why?

Seems a bit quixotic.

We had a member here who announced that he was going for a $1 million total CL, but he found that each new account brought incrementally less of a CL. And this was before the big credit crunch. You're free to try, of course, but it won't be long until you start getting the message "adequate credit already available." Even the big dogs here on the forums don't have total CL's like that.

My total CL is $183-something K, including a HELOC, and that's nearly 3X my income. I've already had one CL reduced due to not using enough of it, and I had to do some fast-talking to get it back.

Re: Credit Line Update

shniku — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:18:08 GMT

The thing is, I find myself needing to make really large purchases. In the card with a 20k limit, I had to split a payment in 5 pieces. I paid 20k, then paid off the card, did that 5 times in a row. It's annoying having to do it that way. The only reason the limit is 20k in the first place is because They saw that I had spend ~120k in an 8 month period. When they raised the limit to 20k, I spent that in about two months.

The reason why I would like to have such a high limit is so that even when I do use the cards, I will only use a small percentage of the total limits. This would ensure that my credit score remains high, and that the creditors would not think I am a risk to them and take actions such as CLDs. Like if I had 2m in total limits, I could borrow 10% of that (200k) indefinetely and it wouldn't seem like a big deal. Since the interest rates are probably going to be high anyways, I will try to take advantage of promotions and never pay more than 5%.

Although I doubt I will reach 2m on my personal side, I think it's easier to do it with corporate credit, so that may very well be my next endeavor.

Re: Credit Line Update

haulingthescoreup — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:26:46 GMT

I'd say that if you're buying stuff for that much money, you need to look into business credit. That's a chunk of change to be running through every month.

One possibility you might want to investigate: American Express Blue Cash. I don't think it works for most people, but certainly if you're charging at this level, you'd clean up on rewards. Whether AmEx (a rather conservative bank) would give you good limits from the get-go, I don't know.

btw, on the $200K reporting on a $2M total credit, FICO scoring also looks at total $$$ balances, not just util. And I'd say that your creditors would be softing the heck out of your reports and adding up balances for themselves, wondering if you're getting ready to vanish off the credit grid with all their cash or something. Interesting thought, though.

Re: What is the best route for me to take so that my FICO score goes up to ~850?

BBYGRL — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:38:28 GMT

@shniku wrote:
If I upgrade my Macy's card to a VISA card, would this make a new account, or just the same account with the ability to use it in other locations? I would like to do the same for the Best Buy card, and make it a MasterCard.

For the Macy's card, I told the associate to put in the application for the Visa card, but she didn't think I would get it, so she just put for a regular card without me even knowing. I doubt there is anything I can do about that.

The upgrade to a Macy's Visa is a hard pull and will report as two separate trade lines. I found out the hard way.

Re: Do you guys think I did a good thing for opening these accounts, or was it a foolish mistake?

shniku — Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:04:23 GMT

Hello all,

I was at the mall today, and I couldn't help but go and apply for a Sears MasterCard. To my surprise, they gave me a 9k CL. I kind of guessed that if I wanted another card in the near future, I should apply for it very soon since there is a chance that when they pull my credit reports, the new Sears inquiry would not show. Then I went to BestBuy and applied for a their MasterCard, and got a 10k CL there. They told me that there is like four different MasterCards that I could possibly get. They were a regular one, a gold MC with a fee, a gold MC without a fee, and a platinum card. They said that only the people with the best credit scores get the platinum, so I was very surprised when he said that I was approved for the platinum. I also went to Macy's and spoke with their customer support. They called the credit people and I spoke to them for a while. They told me that I rank very high in Macy's credit rating system, and that I should request for a Visa upgrade (since I only have regular card). They told me that it probably will just be an internal credit check, or just a soft inquiry.

In summarizing today's events, my total credit limit went up by 19k for a total of 52.8k. It made me go from a 1.69% to 2.64% of reaching my goal of 2M in total credit limits. The downside, two, maybe three, new inquiries, and the average age of all accounts went down by 27% if three new accounts are added.

Do you guys think I did a good thing for opening these accounts, or was it a foolish mistake?

These are all of my OPEN accounts:

Chase Credit Card - $20,000 limit

Chase Credit Card - $900 limit

CITI Credit Card - $2,800 limit

CITI Credit Card - $1,700 limit

PayPal Credit Card - $4,300 limit

AmEx Credit Card - $500 limit

Best Buy Store Card - $2,800 limit

Macy's Store Card - $800 limit

Sears MasterCard -$9,000 limit (new card - opened 2/20/2010)

BestBuy MasterCard -$10,000 limit (new card - opened 2/20/2010)

Total Limit: $52,800 (my goal is to get $2,000,000 as a total limit so any advice will help)

Re: Do you guys think I did a good thing for opening these accounts, or was it a foolish mistake?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 04:49:05 GMT

Shniku i say stop before you hurt yourself. It seems you are getting a high from applying and being approved. It will take a good dose of denial to get you sober. Your credit is good darn it excellent do not ruin it in a self fulfilling spree.

start to credit garden and rid yourself or some of the weeds ....Good Luck

Re: What is the best route for me to take so that my FICO score goes up to ~850?

xchap — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:50:26 GMT

hey good luck. might be looking for a whole lot of problems..... need bigger limit go to biz cards .......or like one said amex plat. gold. green etc....

Re: What is the best route for me to take so that my FICO score goes up to ~850?

shniku — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 09:06:36 GMT

Just got a AmEx Business Platinum. I'll try to spend ~40k/month in hopes of getting Centurion invitation.

After I get the invitiation, my next goal should be to masterfully negotiate with AmEx and convince them to give me the Centurion card fee free. Does anybody have any tips on negotiating?

Re: What is the best route for me to take so that my FICO score goes up to ~850?

GregB — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:27:19 GMT

It is not going to happen unless Amex drops their requirements dramatically.

You might start by trying to get Amex to waive the fee next year on your new card. That will be difficult.

Re: What is the best route for me to take so that my FICO score goes up to ~850?

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 16:17:06 GMT

The fee is going to stay there and as far as wanting to have 2,000,000 in credit I was about to suggest Centurion. Based on your spending habbits as stated, I wouldn't see any harm in calling AMEX and seeing what they would say you need to do to be accepted. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard you can now call in and inquire for their black card instead of them needing to invite you. Another option would be the Chase Palladium. The only requirement is being a private bank client (you'd have to contact them for those req but I read somewhere the avg client has 30M in their accounts) but it's JP Morgan's version of the Centurion that is structured very simularly.