topic Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit in General Credit Topics

Shady dealer pulled my credit

Anonymous — Mon, 17 May 2010 17:32:52 GMT

I'm shopping around for a car, and went in to a Toyota dealership for a test drive. I've been to this particular dealer in the past and have found them to be everything that everyone hates about car dealerships, but they had a car I was interested in so I sucked it up. Afterwards we discussed numbers on the vehicle, my trade in, and rates. They kept telling me they couldn't promise me the 3.49% I was asking about until they pulled my credit. I told them repeatedly that I knew my Beacon was above 760, and that they were not to pull my credit until we had come to an acceptable deal on the car and my trade in. Ultimately, after an hour and a half of negotiation and telling them I wanted to leave and think things over half a dozen times I finally got out of there.

It occured to me the next day that I should backdoor my Equifax report (that's who Toyota pulls) and make sure I didn't have any inquiries. Lo and behold, they'd pulled my credit. I called and they acted shocked, and then called back and made excuses, all the while still trying to close a deal with me. What can I do to get the inquiry removed? Do I need to have them call or write Equifax? Do I have any recourse against the dealership?

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

Anonymous — Mon, 17 May 2010 18:29:45 GMT

I am wondering how you can make any deals and go over numbers without having them pull your credit first.

If you search the forum you will find a non-pp letter.

With that said, any pulls for an autoloan in a specific amount of time (it used to be 14 days) are only looked at by FICO as one inquiry.

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

Anonymous — Mon, 17 May 2010 18:53:40 GMT

They were offering a 3.49% rate for Beacon scores over 740. I pulled my EQ from myFico the day I went in at 767 and told them my scores would qualify me. We were trying to come to an agreement on purchase price for the car and trade in value of my car. We hadn't come to an agreement yet, so we hadn't even calculated a payment based on that rate yet. I left having not agreed to anything.

It's been 5 days since the inquiry, and I don't necessarily plan on buying a car in the next 9 days, and definitely not from that dealer. I'm worried about the effect the inquiry has already had on my score should I choose to apply for credit with another dealership. I'd prefer just telling them to remove it (as I said, they were all apologies and "shock" that it had accidentally been pulled) rather than sending them the non-PP letter. If I ask them to remove it, and they tell me they can't, what should be my response? Obviously they can, or the non-PP letter wouldn't even be an option, right? Do they have to call or write to Equifax to have it removed?

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

Anonymous — Mon, 17 May 2010 18:59:58 GMT

You can file a dispute online or send a non pp letter. How did they get your ssn?

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

Anonymous — Mon, 17 May 2010 19:03:28 GMT

You really don't need an SSN to pull credit. They had my name and address from taking a copy of my drivers license to test drive the vehicle.

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

Anonymous — Mon, 17 May 2010 19:14:43 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
You can file a dispute online or send a non pp letter. How did they get your ssn?

You can not get a inquiry deleted by disputing. Very seldom will it work. Send the non-pp letter.

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

Anonymous — Mon, 17 May 2010 19:16:20 GMT

You would need to send a non-pp letter to the dealership. Search the forums for one. You could also ask them to recode it as a soft.

They have to contact the CRA.

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

fused — Mon, 17 May 2010 22:05:42 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

You can file a dispute online or send a non pp letter. How did they get your ssn?

You can not get a inquiry deleted by disputing. Very seldom will it work. Send the non-pp letter.

Very true, Guiness! The non-pp letter is the way to go.

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

MarineVietVet — Mon, 17 May 2010 22:08:26 GMT

For any newcomers reading this a non-pp stands for "Non Permissible Purpose".

Here are some often used Abbreviations.

From a BK years ago to:

9/09 EX pulled by lender 802
3/10 EQ- 800
4/10 TU -772

You can do the same thing with hard work

Credit Scoring 101
Common Abbreviations
Frequently Requested Threads
Whats In Your FICO Score

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

RobertEG — Tue, 18 May 2010 04:42:30 GMT

Clearly, you never signed anything that would qualtify as a business transaction initiated by the consumer, So they could not make a permissible pull under FCRA 604(a)(3)(F), but that is probably not what they will assert as their basis.

Here is what they will probaBLY throw at you, and what you will have to argue against as their permissible pull authority:

FCRA 604(a)(3)(A):

"... any consumer reportiing agency may furnish a consumer report under the following circumstances, and no other......

(3)(A) To a person which it has reason to believe intends to use the information in connection with a credit transaction involving the

consumer on whom the information is to be furnished and involving the extension of credit to, or review or collection of an account,

of the consumer."

You can argue that unless you gave specific, written authorization for a credit pull, it was not "in connnection with a credit transaction" involving you, so was unauthorized. I wont speculate on the legality of what they did, and wish you well in your dispute. Just be prepared to address FCRA 604(a)(3)(A).

The essential problem with disputing credit inquiries is that the FCRA never uses the terms hard or soft pull, and how a creditor codes an inquiry is totally up to them. It is not an issue that the CRAs consider as a dspute under the FCRA, unless the credtor was flat-out fraudulent in accessing your CR for any legitimate reason.set forth under the myriad of provisions of FCRA 604.

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

llecs — Tue, 18 May 2010 16:01:47 GMT

Not defending anyone, but they still would have to pull your credit at some point in time. Even if they advertised that they'll pull a Beacon 5.0 score (same as on myFICO for those reading this), they would have to pull to make sure your DTI was in check. They have to make sure that the potential borrower can afford a monthly payment based on the reported obligations.

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

Anonymous — Tue, 18 May 2010 16:23:30 GMT

Not at all saying they won't have to pull my credit if I do buy a car, but we did not come to an agreement on the price of that car, and I'm not buying it.

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

RobertEG — Wed, 19 May 2010 04:11:37 GMT

They must show, as a bare minimum, that they are negotiating a business transaction with you. That is all they must self-assert to the CRA to obtain your CR under FCRA 604(a)(3)(A). The best way for them to assure their pull authority is to obtain prior written permission from you to access your CR. You concede that you were negotiating a business transaction with them. For them to decide on whether or not to sign a contract of sale with you that involve the extension of credit, it is just reasonable to expect that they would secure this information before "sale" of the vehicle.

I would suspect that this dealership probably got your John Doe on something to indicate negotiations with you. Even if they did not, one does not go into a car dealership and give them ID unless you are "negotiating." Prio contract of sale is not required. Otherwise, the entire negotiation process would come to a standstill

I dont dispute your logic, and dont dispute theirs.

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

Anonymous — Wed, 19 May 2010 04:52:27 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
Even if they did not, one does not go into a car dealership and give them ID unless you are "negotiating." Prio contract of sale is not required. Otherwise, the entire negotiation process would come to a standstill

Really? That doesn't seem right to me. We were negotiating the purchase price of the vehicle. Obviously that doesn't tie them into the sale of the vehicle if it turns out I can't finance the car. If I was paying cash we would still be negotiating the price of the sale, but they would have no reason to pull my credit. We needed to come to an agreement on the purchase price of the car before we moved forward with the transaction. There's no reason prior to that for anything to ever be signed, at least there hasn't ever been any of the other times I've purchased cars. Why would a John Doe be needed to indicate negotiations? If a car is 15K and I offer 14K, nothing needs to be signed for them to tell me yes, no, or how about this price instead. I'm not seeing how the negotiation process would come to a standstill without a signature. Giving them a copy of my driver's license (and often insurance card) has nothing to do with negotiations, it has to do with their liability while letting you test drive their vehicle.

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

RobertEG — Wed, 19 May 2010 05:06:59 GMT

Because you indicated interest in their loan financing as part of the negotiation. Car deals are not just about the sales price, they are about the total deal.

Sure, if you just walk in the door, never discuss financing, reach a contract and pay cash, then they have no right to a credit check.

Regardless, it will be gone after one year, and is really not a major credit scoring factor, so I have exhausted my comments on this thread

I wish you well!

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

Anonymous — Tue, 25 May 2010 11:33:09 GMT

It's illegal for them to pull credit without your permission. Go back, threaten a lawsuit and see how fast they move. Sorry that my advice is extreme and maybe late, but those are facts. If you deal with FACTS, you find that your negotiations are faster and things like this get taken care of. Because the pull was NOT authorized, I bet you CAN get the agencies to remove them. That said, it isn't easy. I noticed some posts here that say you can't do this. I bet you CAN. It is a basic tenet of law that if something is illegal, it cannot be part of a legitimate transaction and any court in the land would force the reversal.

I am sure they will claim you verbally authorized it, but check and see if, by law, they need a signature.

If there was ANY damage to your credit score, you have a legitimate formal complaint. I would sue in circuit court, not small claims because they have to answer in a different manner, hire a lawyer, etc. You can also get punitive damages because this is not a contract case. You can also demonstrate that they KNEW (or should have known - that is legal language) that you were shopping for a car, and that pulling your credit would do a number of things;1) Tell them or their competitors where you've been shopping 2) lower your score in a time when a) you are shopping for a vehicle and that the pulling of your credit at every dealer would eventually lower your score, thereby causing you damage, a reason to sue.

Wind up? : Call the dealership, threaten them with a lawsuit using this information, tell them to call the agency and have it removed by telling the agency it was in error. If they don't....................sue them in circuit court.

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

Anonymous — Tue, 25 May 2010 11:41:09 GMT

who determines whether or not you were actually negotiating or just "checking around".

There is no real damage, don't forget that the agencies don't regrade your credit after EVERY pull...they allow a couple of weeks, because they "understand" that you are shopping around for a car, mortgage, etc.

I still say you have grounds for a suit, although a weak one, but NOT frivilous. Who knows many times a day they do this to people without permission??? You can find out during discovery in the lawsuit...you might find that they do it as a matter of course and 99 out of 100 people don't know, don't care or don't know it's wrong.

If you're mad enough, go sue them. Sometimes, it can be fun and entertaining.

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

Anonymous — Tue, 25 May 2010 12:36:22 GMT

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Sure, if you just walk in the door, never discuss financing, reach a contract and pay cash, then they have no right to a credit check.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is what I was thinking. Part of your "negotiation" was based on you having a credit score high enough to qualify for the interest rate. If you were paying cash, they would have never pulled a credit report.

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

Anonymous — Tue, 25 May 2010 13:13:19 GMT

Credit scores change, so the dealer would not take your word that your score was above 760. Because you told the dealer not to pull your score, they should have told you that it would be necessary. If you really wanted their vehicle, why not allow the dealer to pull your score? Your score determines the finance charge percentage.

Re: Shady dealer pulled my credit

Anonymous — Tue, 25 May 2010 13:13:44 GMT

With all due respect to others, the poster has no case.

You gave them permission when you provided your personal documentation when you test drove the vehicle.

The Dealer has the right to pull your credit report on “ANY” type of negotiations.