topic Re: VERBAL CONTRACT in General Credit Topics

VERBAL CONTRACT

Anonymous — Fri, 28 May 2010 13:18:46 GMT

Does anyone know how binding this is.

I loaned my niece 6000 to fix her teeth and it looks

like she's not going to pay me back

Our agreement was 150 month and more when she got

a job. All she had to do was recertify for LNA.

Thanks

Re: VERBAL CONTRACT

llecs — Fri, 28 May 2010 14:16:00 GMT

If you took her to court, she'll say, "What contract, your honor?"

Aside from writing it off, you could always coax her into giving you something in her writing that indicates she owes the debt...e.g., ask her to give you an explanation why she can't pay now or ask her to give you a budget working in the debt repayment, but showing the full amount owed. Depending on your state, you could use that against her.

Re: VERBAL CONTRACT

Anonymous — Fri, 28 May 2010 14:20:06 GMT

@llecs wrote:
If you took her to court, she'll say, "What contract, your honor?"

Aside from writing it off, you could always coax her into giving you something in her writing that indicates she owes the debt...e.g., ask her to give you an explanation why she can't pay now or ask her to give you a budget working in the debt repayment, but showing the full amount owed. Depending on your state, you could use that against her.

Ilecs - that's pretty savvy - your brain cells are chuggin'!

Re: VERBAL CONTRACT

llecs — Fri, 28 May 2010 14:45:14 GMT

I had two cups of coffee today...plus an energy drink. WIRED!!

Re: VERBAL CONTRACT

Anonymous — Fri, 28 May 2010 16:39:25 GMT

casinoannie, has she gotten herself a job? Sounds like she hasn't done that yet, because she didn't get recertified?

Re: VERBAL CONTRACT

marty56 — Fri, 28 May 2010 16:53:36 GMT

I would contact the Judge Judy show but the most money you could get is 5k. It's going to be hard to prove that it wasn't a gift unless there was a witness or she made payments to you via a check.

I am sorry that this happened since it was a lot of money and it most likely will trash your relationship with her and strain your relationship with your sibiling.

Re: VERBAL CONTRACT

Anonymous — Fri, 28 May 2010 18:26:25 GMT

No she hasn't done anything about recertifying or getting a

job. My whole family knows the agreement was made including

my sister. I do have the receipts. One of which she signed my name.

I don't think it would be hard to prove.

I am devastated that this has happened. I broke

my own rule: "never loan money to family or friends".

However my sister told me "she was afraid my niece might

die from the poison in her system".

To tell the truth I had a stroke but otherwise I wouldn't

mind giving her the money.

Re: VERBAL CONTRACT

Anonymous — Fri, 28 May 2010 21:14:59 GMT

casinoannie, I hope you're OK now, had no idea about the stroke. I guess this issue with the loan doesn't help matters any.

Marty mentioned Judge Judy, above. I watched a show a while back, similar situation. The ruling was that yes, the oral agreement was binding. The entire oral agreement. That meant that the agreement had not been broken unless the borrower had already gotten a job, and only then failed to pay.

No job, no payment required...nothing to go to court over, 'cause no agreement had yet been breached. But JJ made it quite clear that once that borrower got employment, the payments on the debt had better start, pronto...if not, there would be a breach, and the lender would prevail in a suit and win a judgement.

You know, you may have saved your niece's life with that loan, depending on how bad her dental situation was at the time. I had an abscess because of a tooth I had neglected, and the dentist and the periodontist each told me how dangerous it was. My understanding is that something like that can go directly to the brain in short order, and that'd be that.

Is your sister making any attempt to help with this debt? Sounds like she was the one who first approached you for the loan. But in any event, they should be kissing your a** that you came up with the scratch for your niece to take care of the dental work.

I hope this all works out for you, annie. You deserve better than what you're getting.

Re: VERBAL CONTRACT

Anonymous — Fri, 28 May 2010 23:41:24 GMT

Look up your states statutes on oral agreements. It should be binding, just harder to prove.

Re: VERBAL CONTRACT

RobertEG — Sat, 29 May 2010 03:39:37 GMT

The primary issue, as I see it, is whether you are willing to initiate civil action to collect on a debt based on oral contract.

Oral contracts are legal contracts, but obviously, due to their nature, dont have paper that a court can use to determine which party prevails.

So you go into court, and prove your case of contract by other means.

You have a lot of ammunition to potentially prove your case. First, the day after you file your complaint, you or your attorney can obtain, under court-ordered discovery, a legal depostition from this person, and all account records pertinent to their payments against the debt. If they lie under deposition, that is purjury.

Going into court, you then have their side of the sad story, through their legal deposition, and then can bring any witnesesses at your disposal to substantiate the oral meeting of the minds between you and the defendant, or to challenge anything the defendant has assserted under oath.

My only concern is the age of the alleged debt. It may be outside of SOL. I dont know your state SOL for defense against oral contract suits. But even if SOL has expired, that does not bar you from bringing legal action. SOL is just a defense, if the other party is saavy enough to know, or puts the money up to hire an attorney to assert, as a defense in court.

If I were you, I would hire an attorney.

Re: VERBAL CONTRACT

Anonymous — Sat, 29 May 2010 06:36:29 GMT

Food for thought.

The golden question is If she doesn't have the money to pay, then when will she?

Hiring an attorney, proceeding with lawsuit and hoping for a satisfactory judgment is incrementally risky and expensive. And if you are successful in obtaining a judgment against her then in all probablity there will be additional expense to enforce collection. Expect it to go on for years.

It's probable that the cost of going through all of it will be multiple thousands of dollars, after all attorney billing rates are easily one to two hundred dollars an hour. And it's doubtful that any attorney would accept the case on a contingency basis. And given the oral nature of it along with the history and statutory issues, there is likely to be sufficient leg work for legal counsel. For that matter, it wouldn't be surprising for attorney's to decline the case because of these things.

IMO, it isn't worth tossing good money after bad. Chalk it up to lesson learned.

Re: VERBAL CONTRACT

marty56 — Sat, 29 May 2010 11:27:13 GMT

Small claims court could get you 5k back and just cost you a filing fee.

The real issue here is that are you willing to forgive the debt to save your relationship with your sister and your niece. It is possible that in the future your sister and or niece would do the right thing and pay you back but how would you feel if she wanted to pay you back but couldn't or at least not for several years.

Given the fact that you must have had some feelings for her to loan her the money, if I was in your situation I would have no choice but to forgive the debt. Maybe she or her sister will do the right thing in the future but don't let it destroy your relationship with them or cause you stress. Don't beat yourself up for doing this but don't forget that you did give her the money and part of you must have known that there was a possiblity you would not get the money back.

Re: VERBAL CONTRACT

Anonymous — Sat, 29 May 2010 12:33:53 GMT

she gets money from gov't each month and that's the agreement. 150 a month

until she gets a job and then more. It is my retirement money.

Re: VERBAL CONTRACT

Anonymous — Sat, 29 May 2010 18:01:30 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
she gets money from gov't each month and that's the agreement. 150 a month
until she gets a job and then more. It is my retirement money.

Sorry, annie...I misread your original post to mean at least $150/mo, when she got a job.

I hope this is just a temporary lack of judgement on your niece's part, and that she'll realize she's indebted to you for more than just money, and that you need to be repaid. That repayment can start by at least acknowledging her debt, and paying whatever she can towards it now, even if it's less than the $150/mo, you agreed to.

If she could do that, it would probably give you some peace of mind, and go a long way towards showing you her intentions are honorable.

I hope it all works out for you.

Re: VERBAL CONTRACT

marty56 — Sat, 29 May 2010 21:18:16 GMT

Even if you could take her to small claims court, my guess she is judgement prooof until she gets a job.