topic Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong? in General Credit Topics

Did bank rep do anything wrong?

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Jun 2011 23:20:06 GMT

My wife went into the bank yesterday, on more of a fact finding mission. She was curious about auto refinance and their credit card products. She had our FICO scores with her as well as credit report printouts. She stated she just wanted information and did not want our credit pulled. The girl (who is pretty new in this department, she was a teller last time I was there) told her she couldn't help us or give us any guidance without pulling our credit. She then proceeded to tell my wife it was ok and they had all of our information. She pulled the credit and they went over the products. Imagine my surprise and disappointment when I'm told my credit was pulled without me being there or authorizing it to anyone at the bank. This morning my CMS informed me the pull had been deleted. I was relieved of that.

But did they violate any laws? I was under the assumption only I could pull my credit, and a lender could only pull my credit with my express authorization. Either way, I'm happy they reversed it. I hadn't even talked to them yet, so someone obviously realized there was a mistake made.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

DI — Sat, 04 Jun 2011 22:54:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
My wife went into the bank yesterday, on more of a fact finding mission. She was curious about auto refinance and their credit card products. She had our FICO scores with her as well as credit report printouts. She stated she just wanted information and did not want our credit pulled. The girl (who is pretty new in this department, she was a teller last time I was there) told her she couldn't help us or give us any guidance without pulling our credit. She then proceeded to tell my wife it was ok and they had all of our information. She pulled the credit and they went over the products. Imagine my surprise and disappointment when I'm told my credit was pulled without me being there or authorizing it to anyone at the bank. This morning my CMS informed me the pull had been deleted. I was relieved of that.

But did they violate any laws? I was under the assumption only I could pull my credit, and a lender could only pull my credit with my express authorization. Either way, I'm happy they reversed it. I hadn't even talked to them yet, so someone obviously realized there was a mistake made.

They had no right to pull your credit report without your signature or verbal consent. They expecially had no right to make a 'hard inquiry'. If you have an account with them they can do a soft inquiry for account reviews. No one, including your wife cannot request or apply for credit in your name with or without your consent. It's good they reversed it, becuase they know they made a big mistake.

If your wife went the bank with credit reports and FICO scores just to get approval information, an experienced loan officer could have reviewed that information. A hard pull would have only been required if your wife submitted an application. I guess your wife should have just left when the teller said she couldn't have helped with pulling a credit report.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

Anonymous — Sat, 04 Jun 2011 23:20:47 GMT

Thank you. That's exactly what I thought. I'm kinda new to this, but I'm no dummy, and a quick learner.

As soon as I saw it wa deleted, I sent them a really nice letter, thanking them for deleting it and buttering them up for future encounters with them. I started to get worried as I read after that that inquiries with TU sometimes fall off then reappear. Just hoping it doesn't reappear. I don't want to have to take action against them and ruin chances I have of future business with them, as they're a great CU.

The girl was obviously new in the loan area. As I said, she's about 25 and was just starting out as a teller 2 years ago. My wife has good intentions, but sometimes when she wants something (even just information), she can be persuaded. I think she learned on this one, though.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

Anonymous — Sat, 04 Jun 2011 23:36:51 GMT

I spoke too soon. Just refreshed my report with my CMS. It's back. Now I feel like an ass for sending them a thank you letter.

Now what? Wait for them to respond to the letter? Send them another letter? Dispute with CRA?

Or should I go in and speak with a branch manager on Tuesday (my next day off)? Maybe I should go in and demand they give me a credit card or I'll report them LOL!

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

Anonymous — Sun, 05 Jun 2011 21:36:09 GMT

If it were me, I'd refresh my report Mon and Tues, if its still there, I would go in and speak to the Branch Manager on Tues and explain what happened and you would like that inq removed.

If they don't remove it, I believe a law has been broken, and then you go from there.

Let us know what happens.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

Anonymous — Sun, 05 Jun 2011 22:37:59 GMT

From what I've read, they legally can't do that. My credit report legally has to show me who accessed my report. However, if it's still there, I will go in there and demand them to change it to a soft.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

DI — Sun, 05 Jun 2011 22:48:43 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
From what I've read, they legally can't do that. My credit report legally has to show me who accessed my report. However, if it's still there, I will go in there and demand them to change it to a soft.

Don't demand it be changed to soft. That give reason to believe you gave them permission to pull your report. Request that they remove the inquiry completely.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jun 2011 00:52:22 GMT

Gotcha. But obviously, be willing to settle for a soft.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

DI — Mon, 06 Jun 2011 02:09:31 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Gotcha. But obviously, be willing to settle for a soft.

Wrong is wrong. You were not there to give permission to pull your credit report. You do not have a joint credit report with your wife. If anything, they should have only pulled your wife's credit report.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

Walt_K — Mon, 06 Jun 2011 02:21:09 GMT

I wouldn't expend too much energy on this. It's one inquiry. Unless you have a mortgage app or auto loan or something like that coming up soon, it really isn't that big a deal. I'm not saying that you aren't correct, I'm just saying that I don't think it's worth your time and aggravation. Maybe go in there once to try to get it worked out, but I'd just let it go after that.

Plus, disputing inquiries with the CRA can open a whole other can of worms. I don't know all the details, but I know there are threads on here talking about it triggering fraud alerts or some such. Just make sure you look into that before you decide to go that route.

Good luck.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jun 2011 02:28:45 GMT

Yeah I've read that. I definitely won't dispute with the CRA.

It's not about the 1 inquiry. Its the principle. My DW was pressured into having her credit pulled, and the rep illegally pulled mine.

I cannot go in there and expect a deletion of the inquiry because its technically illegal, even if we both agree it was wrong or illegal. However, it's worth asking for and it's not certainly reasonable to ask them to change it to a soft.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jun 2011 02:57:07 GMT

Is the auto loan you're looking to refinance with this bank? If it was, they might technically have had a permissible purpose for pulling your report.

If I remember my days of reading the rebuilding forum for DW, a creditor can do a credit inquiry for any reason if you have an ongoing credit relationship with them. For example, if I have a CC with Amex they can pull my credit anytime they want.

Furthermore, the law doesn't distinguish between a hard inquiry and a soft inquiry -- it just covers inquiries. The distinction between a hard and soft inquiry is something the credit bureaus made up for tracking purposes.

This is not to say I think they are in the right, but they may have had the right to do it regardless of your explicit permission.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jun 2011 03:10:18 GMT

All we currently have with them is share and draft. No loans or credit products. We have had loans in the past with them, but not since last summer.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

JBjunior — Mon, 06 Jun 2011 03:12:30 GMT

What they did was illegal. I have been through this recently with both my own research into the FCRA and a lawyer after some illegal inquiries were done for my report. While the FCRA doesn't use the terminology of "soft" and "hard" the system that CRAs use is based on the terminology they do use. Companies are allowed to do soft inquiries (it is done all the time) but a hard inquiry has to be initiated by the consumer in pursuit of credit. You could pursue a monetary claim but in my opinion it isn't worth it although some people have been successful. I was happy when the company began cooperating with me and took action to remove it. Ultimately it is a violation of your privacy. Also, while companies you have an existing relationship can pull your credit at their whim, based on language in the FCRA it should be a soft (not called that).

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Jun 2011 03:44:32 GMT

@JBjunior wrote:
What they did was illegal. I have been through this recently with both my own research into the FCRA and a lawyer after some illegal inquiries were done for my report. While the FCRA doesn't use the terminology of "soft" and "hard" the system that CRAs use is based on the terminology they do use. Companies are allowed to do soft inquiries (it is done all the time) but a hard inquiry has to be initiated by the consumer in pursuit of credit. You could pursue a monetary claim but in my opinion it isn't worth it although some people have been successful. I was happy when the company began cooperating with me and took action to remove it. Ultimately it is a violation of your privacy. Also, while companies you have an existing relationship can pull your credit at their whim, based on language in the FCRA it should be a soft (not called that).

I find nothing in the FCRA that states a hard INQ cannot result from an existing creditor or that a hard INQ must be by a consumer in pursuit of credit.

FCRA § 604(c)(3) Information regarding inquiries. Except as provided in section 609(a)(5) [§1681g], a consumer reporting agency shall not furnish to any person a record of inquiries in connection with a credit or insurance transaction that is not initiated by a consumer.

This is the only reference to a distinction between INQ types that I find in that those INQs seen only by the consumer are what we consider soft and INQs seen by those with permissible purpose to pull your CR are what we call hard. Still, the distinctions are blurry. Insurance INQs are what we would call soft, yet other insurance companies can view them.

The question is what does it mean by a transaction initiated by the consumer. Also, what about non-credit and non-insurance INQs? CAs can place hard INQs since they are collecting on an account that the consumer opened. INQs from government agencies that do not involve credit transations can often be hard INQs. Car dealers can often place a hard INQ even though you pay cash.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

JBjunior — Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:42:12 GMT

You are right that it is very vague. So in your opinion a company that you have an existing relationship with can pull a "hard" pull multiple times a day, every day, for an indefinite time that will ultimately drop your credit score? Why do credit extenders balk when they see an inquiry and no new credit line to go with it? The CRAs agree that a hard inquiry is only for new credit as well (at least that is what they say on my CMS :-) ).

As far as who can legally pull a "hard" inquiry and who actually does, that is two different things. I posted my experience recently. I have a mortgage on property that is privately held. The person who holds the note wanted to sell it at a reduced cost to a third-party mortgage broker. The mortgage broker pulled my credit report because in his mind he would be extending me credit. My lawyer and I disagreed. When I talked to the owner of the company he stated that he had been "doing it for years" and never had an issue. So basically, he felt he had the right, even though we didn't have an existing relationship and I had not initiated the credit with his company, to review my information. It is a different situation but I believe the problem lies in that most people 1) Don't monitor their credit reports 2) Don't understand the FCRA 3) The FCRA is hard to understand. So companies get into a habit of doing something a certain way, because no one calls them on it, regardless of what is the correct way.

If I have any doubts, I contact my lawyer..........

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

DI — Tue, 07 Jun 2011 16:04:56 GMT

@JBjunior wrote:
You are right that it is very vague. So in your opinion a company that you have an existing relationship with can pull a "hard" pull multiple times a day, every day, for an indefinite time that will ultimately drop your credit score? Why do credit extenders balk when they see an inquiry and no new credit line to go with it? The CRAs agree that a hard inquiry is only for new credit as well (at least that is what they say on my CMS :-) ).

As far as who can legally pull a "hard" inquiry and who actually does, that is two different things. I posted my experience recently. I have a mortgage on property that is privately held. The person who holds the note wanted to sell it at a reduced cost to a third-party mortgage broker. The mortgage broker pulled my credit report because in his mind he would be extending me credit. My lawyer and I disagreed. When I talked to the owner of the company he stated that he had been "doing it for years" and never had an issue. So basically, he felt he had the right, even though we didn't have an existing relationship and I had not initiated the credit with his company, to review my information. It is a different situation but I believe the problem lies in that most people 1) Don't monitor their credit reports 2) Don't understand the FCRA 3) The FCRA is hard to understand. So companies get into a habit of doing something a certain way, because no one calls them on it, regardless of what is the correct way.

If I have any doubts, I contact my lawyer..........

Right on!! But when when a person mention contacting a lawyer or maybe sue, some people in these forums get upset. I had to uphold my rights against GE and JC Penney back in 2004. I successfully settled a dispute with them for violating my rights.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Jun 2011 21:10:45 GMT

Well it's Tuesday, hopefully stanggt03 went to the bank today and will have some good news for us.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Jun 2011 21:39:24 GMT

Branch manager supposedly wasn't in. Sent an email to the mortgage department corporate head. I'll let you know. No response yet.

Re: Did bank rep do anything wrong?

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Jun 2011 22:41:16 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Branch manager supposedly wasn't in. Sent an email to the mortgage department corporate head. I'll let you know. No response yet.

Bummer

I know its only 1 inq, but IMO that bank rep should have never pulled your credit report without you being there and you consenting to it.

I hope you can get this sorted dude, please do keep us updated.