topic Re: Utilization History? in General Credit Topics

Utilization History?

Anonymous — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:22:44 GMT

I was almost always under the impression that your credit score was a snapshot of the current information... However, upon doing a dispute with one of the Credit Repoeting Agencies I noticed that my complete and detailed history was availible to me. Payment dates, Credit Utilization, High Balances for each month, Amounts actually paid, EVERYTHING! So, who can buy this information? I pull credit everyday.... I'm an apartment manager and I can tell you I dont have access to this. Most of the people in my line work do not understand credit and only go by score. I always warn them not too... But, is this information being sold to American Express?

I welcome speculation and facts... Thanks for the replies.

Re: Utilization History?

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:16:54 GMT

Out of curiosity, were you disputing with Experian? Their reports have a lot of detail like this. But I wouldn't be surprised to find that the other two do, too.

Lenders can see this full report with details. Interesting that you don't see this when you pull credit on prospective tenants. Which bureau do you use for that?

Re: Utilization History?

Anonymous — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:26:25 GMT

We pull equifax... And It was with Experian... I think. Which is was what American Express does pull. I'm trying to build my credit to get to the point of getting a large unsecured credit line. Amex would be nice... But am I hurting myself with a history of high ultilization?

Re: Utilization History?

Anonymous — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 16:25:37 GMT

I question this also. I'm not entirely convinced that a history of high utilization for a length of time isn't somehow calculated into a score. This is just a curiousity on my part with no actual facts to back up my thoughts.

I do believe that more lenders are looking back to see your payments and balances on cards and not just going by the current date of the report. It's one of the reasons I'm holding off apping for some prime cards. I had a lot of debt for several years. I want to show a new history of PIFing. I believe they look at everything and not just score.

Re: Utilization History?

jamesdwi — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 17:56:53 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I question this also. I'm not entirely convinced that a history of high utilization for a length of time isn't somehow calculated into a score. This is just a curiousity on my part with no actual facts to back up my thoughts.

I do believe that more lenders are looking back to see your payments and balances on cards and not just going by the current date of the report. It's one of the reasons I'm holding off apping for some prime cards. I had a lot of debt for several years. I want to show a new history of PIFing. I believe they look at everything and not just score.

perhaps its working for you, if you have had a history of high UTL and have then paid if off rather quickly, it can work in your benefit so card companies can see that you have used your credit and caried a balance thus earning them money, and then honored the debt and paid it off thus they made money and you proved you could control things and pay down the cards.

The CCC would like nothing better that for you to charge 90% of your limit and pay the minimum for 2-6 months and let them charge you 25% interest then pay the card off and do it again. The credit analysts on the other like low usage but that doesn't earn the company as much money this is the internal battles that lead to AMEX doing FR's on the people that are making the company the most money.

Re: Utilization History?

MarineVietVet — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 18:14:34 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I was almost always under the impression that your credit score was a snapshot of the current information... However, upon doing a dispute with one of the Credit Repoeting Agencies I noticed that my complete and detailed history was availible to me. Payment dates, Credit Utilization, High Balances for each month, Amounts actually paid, EVERYTHING! So, who can buy this information? I pull credit everyday.... I'm an apartment manager and I can tell you I dont have access to this. Most of the people in my line work do not understand credit and only go by score. I always warn them not too... But, is this information being sold to American Express?

I welcome speculation and facts... Thanks for the replies.

Remember though that there is a difference between what lenders can see and what scoring looks at. Even if lenders can look at all that and make a decision when it comes down to scoring FICO still only looks at what is on your reports when they are pulled. Scoring doesn't have a memory; it doesn't follow any of your history so IMO it's still applies that your score is that snapshot in time.

This same principle applies to multiple inquiries for car loan and mortgage applications. If the inquiries are coded correctly FICO will only see one; but lenders (particularly a computer decision) will see all of the inquiries.

Of course I might be looking at this in the wrong way.

Re: Utilization History?

Anonymous — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:55:50 GMT

@jamesdwi wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I question this also. I'm not entirely convinced that a history of high utilization for a length of time isn't somehow calculated into a score. This is just a curiousity on my part with no actual facts to back up my thoughts.

I do believe that more lenders are looking back to see your payments and balances on cards and not just going by the current date of the report. It's one of the reasons I'm holding off apping for some prime cards. I had a lot of debt for several years. I want to show a new history of PIFing. I believe they look at everything and not just score.
perhaps its working for you, if you have had a history of high UTL and have then paid if off rather quickly, it can work in your benefit so card companies can see that you have used your credit and caried a balance thus earning them money, and then honored the debt and paid it off thus they made money and you proved you could control things and pay down the cards.

The CCC would like nothing better that for you to charge 90% of your limit and pay the minimum for 2-6 months and let them charge you 25% interest then pay the card off and do it again. The credit analysts on the other like low usage but that doesn't earn the company as much money this is the internal battles that lead to AMEX doing FR's on the people that are making the company the most money.

I see what you are saying and that is a very good point. Unfortunately, it will take me 2 years to pay it all off (estimating final payment in December 2012 - I can't wait). I had 4 maxed out cards for several years before I was able to even start making a dent in the balances. I'm afraid I don't look very appealing to new creditors. The economy and my poor spending habits came together to make me a financial disaster. A hard lesson but one I needed to learn.

Chase still softs me every time my monthly balance (which I now PIF) goes above $350.

Re: Utilization History?

jamesdwi — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 22:28:54 GMT

I see what you are saying and that is a very good point. Unfortunately, it will take me 2 years to pay it all off (estimating final payment in December 2012 - I can't wait). I had 4 maxed out cards for several years before I was able to even start making a dent in the balances. I'm afraid I don't look very appealing to new creditors. The economy and my poor spending habits came together to make me a financial disaster. A hard lesson but one I needed to learn.

Chase still softs me every time my monthly balance (which I now PIF) goes above $350.

One way to speed up the process is, once you some breathing room on the cards, is charge bills on them and make a payment imediately to cover the bill, if you charge a $300 dollar bill on a card the credit card company won't charge you interest for at least 25 days, and your recycling the debt this way keeps interest charges smaller thus allowing you to pay the card down quicker. If you can run enough money through the card this way, you could even manage to get to a zero interest I would even consider paying the $3 convience fee to pay some bills to get rid of the ongoing monthly interest fee.

for this method to work you need to be disiplined and alway PIF in any new charges imediately, saying you are going to do it next week is a trap that can put you into an even worse place, also put any rewards you earn doing this back onto the card if possible you want to pay it off. why pay interest when you have money sitting in your rewards program.

Re: Utilization History?

marty56 — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 22:35:25 GMT

CRAs don't track utilization other than the highest reported balance which is not computed in your score. Only the current reported balance. My experince is that lenders don't care about highest reported balance either and it is not used for DTI calculations. I am also not ware of any lender asking for copies of your last 3 CC statements or being turned down for credit because your highest reported balance was too high.

Remeber FICO scores live for the moment and have no memory. LOL I wish DW did as well.

Re: Utilization History?

Anonymous — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 22:37:02 GMT

@jamesdwi wrote:

I see what you are saying and that is a very good point. Unfortunately, it will take me 2 years to pay it all off (estimating final payment in December 2012 - I can't wait). I had 4 maxed out cards for several years before I was able to even start making a dent in the balances. I'm afraid I don't look very appealing to new creditors. The economy and my poor spending habits came together to make me a financial disaster. A hard lesson but one I needed to learn.

Chase still softs me every time my monthly balance (which I now PIF) goes above $350.

One way to speed up the process is, once you some breathing room on the cards, is charge bills on them and make a payment imediately to cover the bill, if you charge a $300 dollar bill on a card the credit card company won't charge you interest for at least 25 days, and your recycling the debt this way keeps interest charges smaller thus allowing you to pay the card down quicker. If you can run enough money through the card this way, you could even manage to get to a zero interest I would even consider paying the $3 convience fee to pay some bills to get rid of the ongoing monthly interest fee.

for this method to work you need to be disiplined and alway PIF in any new charges imediately, saying you are going to do it next week is a trap that can put you into an even worse place, also put any rewards you earn doing this back onto the card if possible you want to pay it off. why pay interest when you have money sitting in your rewards program.

Hey, that's a great idea. Thank you! I will definitely PIF immediately when making a new purcahase. It makes me queasy now to carry a balance and I love seeing the balances decrease on my cards so this is a definite financial and psychological win for me. I love it. Thank you again.

Re: Utilization History?

Anonymous — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 23:39:06 GMT

I believe the conventional wisdom (validated by some knowledgeable people and insiders as well) that FICO scoring is a snapshot and does not include all histories.

Histories that are obviously included are Age of credit, AAoA, late payment history, etc. It is believed that utilization history is NOT part of FICO scoring equation.

HOWEVER, that does not mean that your creditors, whether CCCs, mortagage lenders, banks, CU's are not looking beyond just he score. They can choose or not choose to examine other details in your CRs. A mortgage lender that is doing a manual review of your Credit Report may notice..... 'hmm, this person always had high util, but something happened 2 months ago and he paid everything off. He may/may not ask you what happened.

Re: Utilization History?

Anonymous — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 23:49:52 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I believe the conventional wisdom (validated by some knowledgeable people and insiders as well) that FICO scoring is a snapshot and does not include all histories.

Histories that are obviously included are Age of credit, AAoA, late payment history, etc. It is believed that utilization history is NOT part of FICO scoring equation.

HOWEVER, that does not mean that your creditors, whether CCCs, mortagage lenders, banks, CU's are not looking beyond just he score. They can choose or not choose to examine other details in your CRs. A mortgage lender that is doing a manual review of your Credit Report may notice..... 'hmm, this person always had high util, but something happened 2 months ago and he paid everything off. He may/may not ask you what happened.

Yes, thank you for stating that much more clearly than I was. Based on some things I've been reading about rejections for CCs, CLIs and such, it seems as though more lenders are reviewing your entire report and noticing things like how large your payments were and what your utilization has been in the past with various other creditors.

Re: Utilization History?

marty56 — Sun, 01 Apr 2012 00:29:49 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
A mortgage lender that is doing a manual review of your Credit Report may notice..... 'hmm, this person always had high util, but something happened 2 months ago and he paid everything off. He may/may not ask you what happened.

Not possible with a credit report since util history is not tracked and the high balance may or may not be correct. Also a lender cannot tell how fast the account was payed down for the same reason.

Re: Utilization History?

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Apr 2012 00:36:50 GMT

@marty56 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
A mortgage lender that is doing a manual review of your Credit Report may notice..... 'hmm, this person always had high util, but something happened 2 months ago and he paid everything off. He may/may not ask you what happened.
Not possible with a credit report since util history is not tracked and the high balance may or may not be correct. Also a lender cannot tell how fast the account was payed down for the same reason.

I'm looking at my EX report now. It has 2 years worth of monthly payment history for each account. It shows total balance/scheduled payment/payment amount. Do lenders looking at my report not have access to that data?

Re: Utilization History?

haulingthescoreup — Sun, 01 Apr 2012 05:41:43 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@marty56 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
A mortgage lender that is doing a manual review of your Credit Report may notice..... 'hmm, this person always had high util, but something happened 2 months ago and he paid everything off. He may/may not ask you what happened.
Not possible with a credit report since util history is not tracked and the high balance may or may not be correct. Also a lender cannot tell how fast the account was payed down for the same reason.
I'm looking at my EX report now. It has 2 years worth of monthly payment history for each account. It shows total balance/scheduled payment/payment amount. Do lenders looking at my report not have access to that data?

Yes, they do.

It's not used in creating your FICO scores (unless there's a late in there, of course), but the info is available to lenders when you app.

Lenders look at scores AND reports. They're obviously related, but they're not the same thing.

Re: Utilization History?

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Apr 2012 09:44:28 GMT

@haulingthescoreup wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@marty56 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
A mortgage lender that is doing a manual review of your Credit Report may notice..... 'hmm, this person always had high util, but something happened 2 months ago and he paid everything off. He may/may not ask you what happened.
Not possible with a credit report since util history is not tracked and the high balance may or may not be correct. Also a lender cannot tell how fast the account was payed down for the same reason.
I'm looking at my EX report now. It has 2 years worth of monthly payment history for each account. It shows total balance/scheduled payment/payment amount. Do lenders looking at my report not have access to that data?
Yes, they do.

It's not used in creating your FICO scores (unless there's a late in there, of course), but the info is available to lenders when you app.

Lenders look at scores AND reports. They're obviously related, but they're not the same thing.

Thank you. I was just noticing how obvious it would be to anyone who pulled my report that 2 years ago I was in major debt and unable to make more than minimum payments. It's very clear that in 2011 something changed because my payments jump and balances begin to decrease. It also shows how much I now spend per month on the cards I PIF. Interesting stuff that gives lenders a lot of detailed information. The score doesn't tell the whole story but the report pretty much does.

Re: Utilization History?

RobertEG — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 01:08:08 GMT

I dont believe there is much question that in using % util in scoring, only the current % util counts.

But the category under which it is a part is utilization of credit, not % utilization.

It remains kinda a mystery to me if, and to what extent, actual balances, or even historical balances, are scored.

There is no question that prior balance profile is stored in your credit file, and available both to creditors and to the FICO algorithm, if it so chooses.

I have never seen an explanation of how FICO treats debt balances. Since income is not tracked, then balances owed compared with capacity to pay cannot be evaluated, making my mind spin has to how current debt balance can be equated to a risk factor.

In my mind, at least, it remains a mystery. But I dont accept a bald conclusion that amount of debt is not a scoring factor.

Re: Utilization History?

marty56 — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 01:51:02 GMT

Anyone ever been deined credit beacuse that had too much available credit? I would argue that if they are interested in past util, then available credit would also be an issue. If past debt is really an issue, wouldn;t the FCRA mention it. At a mnimum they could only keep it so long since even major derogs fall off after time.

Perhaps there may be a lender that might dig through my CR looking for a reason to deny me but I bet that I can always find many more that won't.

Re: Utilization History?

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 19:00:19 GMT

Anyone ever been deined credit beacuse that had too much available credit?

Yes I was.

Trying to open a Capital One credit card, to capitalize on the no-international-transaction-fees benefit to their cards to use when traveling. I have one credit card with a $40k limit, and several other cards with $10-$15k limit, I don't carry a month-to-month balance on any of these cards, so my utilization is quite low, just whatever I charge in any given month.

Of course I continue to get Capital One invitation/applications constantly....