topic Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion in General Credit Topics

DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

hotpoint — Sat, 09 Jun 2012 20:20:19 GMT

Hello –

Need help in determining DOFD. I have repeatedly disputed a CA with the Collection Agency, the OC and Equifax (I have yet to send the required letter to Trans) to no avail. I have asked the Collection Agency and the OC for my payment history to prove the reported DOFD is incorrect (no results). Equifax is saying the DOFD is the same as the DOLA, although it is clearly reported differently on my report (another issue). Here is the dispute, I recently found my payment history from the OC and faxed the necessary document to the OC, the Collection Agency and Equifax only to receive the same message / “verified and it will remain”. Here are the facts – I had the account for about three years, and according to the payment history I am embarrassed to admit the account only had a zero balance four times. The last zero balance was 6.15.2005 for $122.55, which I paid on time. My next bill 7.11.2005 was paid late on 8.2.2005. From that point on, the statement clearly reflects several late payments and the balance was never up to date from 8.2.2005 to 1.16.2006. Which means the DOFD was 8.2.2005. I moved, and closed the account on 1.16.2006. The remaining balance ($180.00) was sent to a CC – I was never notified. I noticed the CA in 2007 while reviewing my credit report, and without hesitation and seeking the advice of the FICO scholars, I paid the balance in full. The DOFD that is reported is 2.2006.

I am eager to hear your comments; I have been silently dealing with this issue for about 5 months, please share your knowledge. BTW, this is a utility bill. I have registered a complaint with the FTC against Equifax and with the BBB for the Collection Agency.

HotPoint

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

llecs — Sat, 09 Jun 2012 23:05:16 GMT

EQ's CSRs are squirrelly. They keep saying over and over that the CRTP strarts at DOLA. That's why they are telling you that DOFD=DOLA, which isn't true.

DOFD is the date you first went late and never ever recovered again. DOLA can reset with a payment, an account update, or even via a dispute. DOFD should always preceed DOLA.

If the facts are true, I agree that DOFD would be 8/2005. Though, if the account was still open and you paid it several months later, bring it current again just before you closed it, then I can see how they say the DOFD is later. If that's the case, then it's just a closed, non-CO'd account, with lates reporting. Those lates will start falling off this year and by this time next year, it should be reporting as a positive account with a removal coming in early 2016.

If this was a utility, did you have services during the months showing the lates?

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

hotpoint — Sun, 10 Jun 2012 05:59:59 GMT

Thanks LLecs for your reply -- the DOFD is 8.2005. The account was never brought up to date and the statement clearly reflects that case. When I finally paid the account it was closed. The collection agency is reporting the DOFD as 2/2006 and the DOLA as 4/2007. I am sure you know why I want the correct info reported. BTW, I am sure I came close to a disconnection several times, but frankly I have conveniently erased this from my memory. I am now forced to pursue other measures.

HotPoint

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

llecs — Sun, 10 Jun 2012 05:06:47 GMT

Split post to form a new thread within Rebuilding Your Credit

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

llecs — Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:52:22 GMT

@hotpoint wrote:

Thanks LLecs for your reply -- the DOFD is 8.2005. The account was never brought up to date and the statement clearly reflects that case. When I finally paid the account it was closed. The collection agency is reporting the DOFD as 2/2006 and the DOLA as 4/2007. I am sure you know why I want the correct info reported. BTW, I am sure I came close to a disconnection several times, but frankly I have conveniently erased this from my memory. I am now forced to pursue other measures.

HotPoint

If I had that, I'd probably start GWing both the OC and CA. I'd try that a few months before changing tactics. If GWs failed, then I'd consider the direct dispute method. But I'd definitely try GWs first (asking for deletion) because the direct dispute method won't make them open to a GW.

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

RobertEG — Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:52:41 GMT

What is necessary to contest inaccurate reporting of a DOFD is that you first have evidence of the specific DOFD that was reported, and who reported it.

Any party reporting information on an account placed into collection is required, under FCRA 623(a)(5), to report the DOFD on the OC account to the CRA within 90 days of that reporting. So that raises the issue of who has reported the account.

At the time the account was placed for collection, was the OC reporting to your credit file? If so, they were required to have reported the DOFD on their account.

If the OC reported, the date they reported trumps all, as any debt collector is then required to report that same date. You post did not state that the OC was reporting on the account, so I assume they were not.

In that event, the debt collector was required to have contacted the OC and attempted to get the actual DOFD from them. If the OC provided them a date, then that is the date they were required to have reported. If they were unable to obtain a DOFD from the OC, they were entitled to make their best estimate of the DOFD, but in no case could they report a DOFD later than the date of collection referral to them (usually the date opened of the collection). If the OC is also verifying the accuracy of the DOFD, then the debt collector is properly reporting if they report that date, and the issue would be with the OC.

The date the CRA is required to use is the FCRA Compliance Date/Date of First Delinquency that was reported to them. That is a very specific reporting code.

I would send the CRA an information request under FCRA 609(a)(1), and get the specific DOFD that was reported to them.

It is also a bit unclear as to whether your earlier communications were actually a dispute. It is stated that you send documents to the OC, debt collector, and CRA.

Did those constitute an actual dispute? If so, the statute and direct dispute rules set forth that a renewed dispute on substantially the same basis can be dismissed without investigation as "frivolous of irrelevant," so your dispute avenues may now be shut off.

You can always file civil action for inaccurate reporting, once you have clear evidence of the reported DOFD.

With a DOFD of 8/2005, credit report exclusion would not arrive until after 2/2013. If one back-calculated only 7 years from that date, then that looks suspiciously like their stated "DOFD" of 2/2006. ARe you basing their assumed DOFD on an actual statement of DOFD, or upon a back-calculation based on an "expected" exclusion date?

If it remains after the statutory exclusion date, you must then determine who is at fault... the debt collector or the CRA. The debt collector would be at fault if they reported an improper DOFD. The CRA would be at fault if more than 7 years plus 180 days had expired since the reported DOFD.

You have time before the exclusion date arrives, so I would get the REPORTED DOFD that is of record in your file.

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

hotpoint — Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:54:03 GMT

I have tried the GW attempt numerous times -- to both OC and the CA, and I have called both to no avail. I have exhausted all means ... They both seem to have a misunderstanding of the DOFD (maybe because it's a utility bill). I will call one again to the OC and the CA for final results. Next step is to contact the RA for Equifax and the Atty. Gen for the CA/OC. I know I'm in for a fight, but at least they will update their methods for the other potential clients ...Actually I have nothing to loose. HotPoint

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

RobertEG — Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:04:24 GMT

Again, before doing anything, I would send a 609(a) request and get the actual, reported FCRA Compliance Date/Date of First Delinquency that is currently of record in your credit file. All other arguments about what it might be are kinda secondary until you know what has actually been reported, and who reported it. Documentation from the CRA of the specific date of record in your file would be the first step to taking any legal action.

A reported DOFD is not evidence of actual DOFD, but it is evidence of what has been reported and what the CRA must use.

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

hotpoint — Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:54:05 GMT

I mentioned what was reported in my original post i.e. 2/2006 as the reported DOFD (please review). I emailed my statement / payment history to the OC, CA and Equifax. The argument of the CA is they obtained the info from the OC. The OC clearly thinks the DOFD is when it was sent to the CA -- it's a nightmare. The Acct. was only reported by the CA. I faxed upon request to equifax and they continue to say "it remains". When I spoke with the super for equifax she mention, "we only use the info as support". It was the agent at FTC that gave me the knot and correct info to pursue legal action. I will contact the OC and the CA on Monday, because it's been a week. Please keep in mind I began communicating with the OC and the CA in March (documented correspondence). HotPoint

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

hotpoint — Tue, 10 Jul 2012 15:12:48 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
Again, before doing anything, I would send a 609(a) request and get the actual, reported FCRA Compliance Date/Date of First Delinquency that is currently of record in your credit file. All other arguments about what it might be are kinda secondary until you know what has actually been reported, and who reported it. Documentation from the CRA of the specific date of record in your file would be the first step to taking any legal action.

A reported DOFD is not evidence of actual DOFD, but it is evidence of what has been reported and what the CRA must use.

Hello RobertEG -- need suggestions,

Updated info, after contacting the FTC and filing a dispute -- I disputed with the CA, and filed a dispute with the Collection Service Board that governs the CA. I spoke with their Atty, and the case is going to be presented to the board sometime in Aug. The CA responded to the complaint by saying "We did not establish the delinquency date and merely reported the date given to us by our client. We are told by our client that they have turned this over to their legal department for review."

I was under the impression the the CA had to verify/validate the DOFD before reporting . . . any suggestions.

HotPoint

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

RobertEG — Tue, 10 Jul 2012 20:05:05 GMT

The debt collector is correct in asserting that they have complied with the FCRA if the date they reported was obtained from the creditor.

FCRA 623(a)(5)(B)(ii) states that they have fulfilled their requirements for reporting a DOFD if they "obtain the date of delinquency from the creditor."

The DOFD did not occur based on any activities conducted by or with the debt collector, it occured under the OC. So they are the required source of any reporting by the debt collector. The statute requires only that they obtain that date from the OC, not that they somehow conduct an internal investigation of internal OC records.

I am assuming in your scenario that the OC did not also reported a DOFD, such as if they werent reporting to their account to the CRA at the time of their collection referral. If the OC was reporting, they also were required to have reported the DOFD. In that situation, section 623(a)(5)(B)(ii) does not even come into play.

The date reported by the OC would then stand as the date required to have been reported by the debt collector under the provisions of section 623(a)(5)(B)(i).

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

hotpoint — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 17:27:42 GMT

Thanks for the response . . . here is there reply,

"Our legal department has examined the information that you provided in regards to the FCRA and they have informed me that with respect to any delinquent account that is placed for collection (internally or by referral to a third party, whichever is earlier), charged to profit and loss, or subjected to any similar action, upon the expiration of the 180-day period beginning on the date of the commencement of the delinquency which immediately preceded the collection activity, charge to profit and loss, or similar action.

The statute states that the 180-day period begins on the date of the commencement of the delinquency, but does not say what is considered the actual commencement date. Our charter was searched and we were unable to find anything stating the date of delinquency and believe that since there are no statutes that state the issue, and that there is no Tennessee case law governing the issue, that the reasonable decision would be to follow NES/industry practice. In keeping with that practice, the date of delinquency remains Feb. 26, 2006 rather than the date you expressed as July 27, 2005."

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Robert, I need your opinion. This is a previous utility bill. My statement/payment history shows a zero balance for the month of June, 05', and the statements shows that the bill was paid late for the month of July and each month there after (never brought the account up-to-date).

I left the area, and closed the account Jan. 06' and unknowningly left a balance of $180.00. The account was turned over to a collection comp. I paid the bill to the OC w/o knowledge. From reading several forums, I had the understanding that the DOFD was July 2005 and not Feb. 2006. My statements shows a late charge for each month. Your knowledge is clearly appreciated.

HotPoint

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

scmami — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 18:30:51 GMT

I'm not a pro, like RobertEG, who I admire. But didn't you say this was a utility bill? Do the same rules apply? I mean, if it was a credit card, the account would have had to been 30 days late and never brought current to be less than 30 days behind. But a utility bill doesn't report to the CRAs every month right? (At least none in my state do) So the DOFD for a non reporting debt (cell phone bill, utility, membership fees) would be the date the account was charged off, right? This was my understanding... Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

RobertEG — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:46:32 GMT

DOFD is not "different" for utilities. It is the same for all types of debt... the date you first went delinquent (commencement of delinquency) and the account was thereafter not brought into good standing, thus providing for a new commmencement. Date of charge off is irrelevant.

There are literally tons and tons of precedent, both in the form of FTC opinions, congressional history, and legal decisions, that contradict their statement that "commencement of date of delinquency" is not defined. The statute may not go into detail, and does not even use the term DOFD, but there is NO statutory ambiguity.

"Commencement of delinquency" is the date you became first became delinquent. You dont commence new delinquency until the account is no longer delinquent, and a new delinquency is commenced.

The CRA credit reporting manual goes into excrutiating detail, with numerous examples, of what constitutes a proper reporting of DOFD.

If they continue to define DOFD otherwise, I would file an action in small claims court.

If you contest and need case law to support your position, give a yell.

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

hotpoint — Thu, 12 Jul 2012 00:31:40 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
DOFD is not "different" for utilities. It is the same for all types of debt... the date you first went delinquent (commencement of delinquency) and the account was thereafter not brought into good standing, thus providing for a new commencement. Date of charge off is irrelevant.

"Commencement of delinquency" is the date you became first became delinquent. You don't commence new delinquency until the account is no longer delinquent, and a new delinquency is commenced.
The CRA credit reporting manual goes into excruciating detail, with numerous examples, of what constitutes a proper reporting of DOFD.

If they continue to define DOFD otherwise, I would file an action in small claims court.
If you contest and need case law to support your position, give a yell.

Thanks Robert,

Please keep in mind, the account continued for over three years. Unfortunately, I had a really bad payment history with the source. I had a zero balance for my June 05' payment. I was late paying my July payment and each month there after (according to my statement), and accumulating late charges. I closed the account Jan. 06', which lead to the collection.

The OC "continues to define DOFD otherwise", therefore I intent to contest and will need any case law, and/or support you can provide.

-Best Regards,

HotPoint

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

RobertEG — Sat, 04 Aug 2012 10:22:22 GMT

Start with the FTC Staff Opinion letters, which can be found on the FTC webpage under FCRA staff opinion letters.

The first is Brinkerhoff-Johnson, which addresses the issue as follows:

"We are not in accord with the contention that the date "when (the creditor) first reported" the chargeoff to the CRA constituted the start of the delinquency. Sections 605(c)(1) and 623(a)(5) were recently added to the FCRA to correct the ineffectiveness of the previous FCRA, under which the date that started the seven-year period was uncertain or under the control of the creditor.(1) The legislative history of these provisions makes it clear that they were designed to correct the often lengthy extension of the period that resulted from delayed creditor action:

Current law generally prohibits consumer reporting agencies from including in a consumer report accounts placed for collection or charged to profit and loss which antedate the report by more than seven years. The Committee is concerned that this seven year limitation is ineffective. In some cases, the ... action occurs months or even years after the commencement of the preceding delinquency. ... Consequently, the consumer report may contain such information even if the delinquency commences more than seven years before the date on which the report is provided to a user.
The Committee bill specifies that the seven-year period with respect to information concerning a delinquent account charged to profit and loss . . . may begin no more than 180 days after the commencement of the delinquency immediately preceding the ... action.

S. Rept. 104-185, 104th Cong., 1st Sess. 39-40 (emphasis added).

"Thus, Congress intended to establish a date certain -- the start of the delinquency -- to begin the obsolescence period (now seven years, plus 180 days).(2) The alternate view stated to you (that the date of reporting controls) is at variance with both the plain language of these amendments, and the intent of Congress in enacting them.

"In sum, we believe that the phrase "commencement of the delinquency that led to the action" in Sections 605(c)(1) and 623(a)(5) of the FCRA should be construed according to its normal meaning. If a consumer falls behind on an account and never catches up, the delinquency has its "commencement" when the first payment is missed. From that point on, the account is past due and thus delinquent."

See, also, the Kosmerl and Amason staff opinion letters.

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

hotpoint — Thu, 12 Jul 2012 15:11:39 GMT

Thanks RobertEG,

Keep you posted . . .

HotPoint

Re: DOFD - Equifax / TransUnion

hotpoint — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 14:19:04 GMT

Well here is an update:

After registering a complaint and speaking with the Atty. that governs the standards for CA's for the state, and speaking w/the Atty. for the OC. The Atty; for the OC has decided to accept the rule (FCRA) and delete the CO from my report, but not w/o casually mentioning "although we believe our standards and actions were warranted we will have the CB's to stop reporting the account." It was the words "stop reporting" that alarmed me and prompted another phone call to the OC, and I certainly could tell they were sick and tired of hearing from me, but I wanted to make certain that his was going to be deleted.

The results: EX has deleted and score increased from 711 to 742 (Vantage Plus). EQ has yet to update.

Thanks RobertEG . . .

HotPoint