topic Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry - in General Credit Topics

1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 17:27:55 GMT

I wonder if anyone has any history with how much a 1 year old inquiry which no longer counts, effects your score. I know it is not much, but if you have multiple ones, has anyone ever tracked how much is gained backed once they aged?

Thanks.

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

CH-7-Mission-Accomplished — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 18:55:04 GMT

After one year, inquiries have no scoring effect. They appear on your report for a second year but are not counted in scoring.

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 19:05:30 GMT

I know that, but if they no longer have a scoring effect, then it stands to reason that there should be a marginal positive score effect (maybe increase) when they hit 1 year. Perhaps it is after several hit 1 year that there is some score increase even if it is just 1-2 points. I don't know. Just wondering.

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 19:36:07 GMT

As it happens, one of the inquiries on my EX report passed the one year mark today. Score went up 5 points from 707 to 712. That said, it could be anything that caused the increase and not necessariy the aging of the inquiry.

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Thomas_Thumb — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 23:44:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I wonder if anyone has any history with how much a 1 year old inquiry which no longer counts, effects your score. I know it is not much, but if you have multiple ones, has anyone ever tracked how much is gained backed once they aged?

Thanks.

My understanding is inquiries are grouped into QTY categories such as: 0, 1-2, 3-5, 6-9, 10 or more. If an inquiry drops off but you stay in the same QTY category, then no score impact.

I went from 1 inquiry under a year old to zero back in July and score increased 13 points on EQ Fico 4 - no change on TU Fico4 or EX Fico 4 (the INQ only showed on EQ report). Industry specific EQ [Fico 4 and Fico 8] scores also increased 7 to 11 points (depending on the model).

Unable to test Fico 8 classic due to being at a ceiling.

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 20:32:06 GMT

Thanks that's interesting. That's more than would have thought. This is relevant for those car and home loan shopping. Though those inquiries are supposed to be coded as one if done the same day or within a certain time frame, they also need to be coded correctly as to the type of credit inquiry. Some of my car loan inquiries on the same day are not listed the same. So I'm thinking that I've gotten dinged for more than one inquiry. I'm fairly certain of it.
I'm sure this happens a lot.

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 02:08:44 GMT

Yup i too had multiple car loan inquiries not coded correctly. They passed a year in july/August but I also paid down utilization so not sure which had the most effect on scores. Interested to read others experiences.

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 21:25:16 GMT

Good information. For how long have you been 850 across the board? Have you ever dropped below on any of them and then climbed back?

What's caused the deviation for the other scores? Your mortgage? Can you have a 850 FICO 8 with a mortgage or even 850 Fico 4 with a mortgage?

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Thomas_Thumb — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 00:59:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Good information. For how long have you been 850 across the board? Have you ever dropped below on any of them and then climbed back?

What's caused the deviation for the other scores? Your mortgage? Can you have a 850 FICO 8 with a mortgage or even 850 Fico 4 with a mortgage?

Most people with Fico 8 850s probably have an open mortgage with flawless payment history to demonstrate credit worthiness and likely have a balance under 50% remaining. This type of credit history actually helps show you are a very low credit risk - which is what the scores are meant to categorize ... credit risk. (I have an open 15 year mortgage, 5 years remaining, with just under 40% balance on the loan)

I have been at Fico 8 850 since the score was 1st reported to me in 2/2014. I get a report through Discover Card every month and the score has never dropped below 850. I purchased the 3B report to check all scores from all three CBs 3/28/2015 and 7/28/2015. Both reports show 850 for all three CBs.

Also, both 3B reports showed the same scores for TU and EX Fico 4 - 823 and 830, respectively. EQ Fico 4 (Beacon 5) increased from 796 to 809 - inquiry on EQ report reached 1 year in June ...so no more point deduct due to inquiry from July forward on EQ report (inquiry never showed on TU or EX reports so no score change).

The industry specific Fico scores (Auto and Bankcard) that showed a significant shift were also associated with the EQ CRA. As with the classic EQ Fico 4, they all increased as a result of the inquiry reaching 1 year and no longer negatively impacting score.

Note: EQ Fico 4 has a "real" score max of 818 and TU Fico 4 has a "real" score max of 839 - you cannot actually get to a score of 850 on these mortgage scores. See the many flavors of Fico thread for more info on score ranges.

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 13:24:52 GMT

I appreciate the information. Very useful. You said, "I have been at Fico 8 850 since the score was 1st reported to me in 2/2014. I get a report through Discover Card every month and the score has never dropped below 850." So before 02/2014 you didn't know your credit score?

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Thomas_Thumb — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 00:56:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I appreciate the information. Very useful. You said, "I have been at Fico 8 850 since the score was 1st reported to me in 2/2014. I get a report through Discover Card every month and the score has never dropped below 850." So before 02/2014 you didn't know your credit score?

Correct, 2/2014 is the 1st time I actually saw my credit score. My wife and I were told by a loan officer back in 2005 that we both had +800 scores from all three CRAs when we applied for our latest mortgage but we did not see the numbers. I do not manage credit or spending habits based on score - just sound practices such as PIF and never be late. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Since early 2014 I have extracted every credit score available to me as a consumer (including VS and Ed scores) primarity because I like data and wanted insight into how other models scored my profile. I observed a few things along the way such as:

1) Don't max out a CC (80% UT) as it affects Fico 4 score.

2) A consumer requested CLI may trigger a HP and if so, the HP impacts Fico scores for a year on CRA reports that show the inquiry (except classic Fico 8 - no change).

3) Closed accounts fall off reports after 10 years.

4) Fico 4 is skittish and does not like my style but Fico 8 does.

I never prepay charges to post an artificially low balance on a statement. My practice is generally pay statement balances 3 to 5 days before due date. That way I am essentially using the card issuers money interest free from date of charge to statement payment date month after month. My spending habits relative to aggregate CL naturally aligns with aggregate UT of 1% to 6% - I do not see score fluctuations associated with allowing all charges to post on monthly CC statements.

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

bada_bing — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 00:31:02 GMT

One thing to remember about inquiries is that if an inquiry was

used to open a new account, the account will still be scored as

"new" for 2 years. Even though the inquiry is no longer factored

into the score calculation after 1 year, the "new account is for 2

years. New accounts have a small negative influence on score.

Another thing about only FICO8 score model is that the sum total potential

of all score contributors is over 850, but the score itself is capped at 850.

It's possible to have a little extra credit hidden in an 850 score that could

make up for a minor ding like utilization not perfectly optimized. That's the

reason some 850 scores seem so rock solid over time, they actually have

some extra points hidden in the score. Not all 850 scores are equal, but

there is no way to see it without stressing them to the point of falling below

850.

I'm hopeful I can post 850 scores in the spring. I currently have 2 "new" credit

card accounts (18 months old) and a 3 year old Refi mortgage sitting at 81% of

the original refi'd balance. If I get below 80% and the card accounts age past 2

years I should get the last couple points I need - my current TU is 848 and EX is

849. I evidently have some "extra" points built into my score now or one would

think it would be impossible to score 849 with a mortgage at over 80% and two

card accounts newer than two years.

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Thomas_Thumb — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 00:58:20 GMT

FYI - my inquiry was related to a CLI request associated with a CC that was already 2 3/4 years old at the time.

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Revelate — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 03:44:22 GMT

EQ Beacon 5.0 during a short window with flatlined scores while I was going through my mortgage process.

Inquiry count: 3 -> 2 -> 3 -> 2 -> 3

Score: 693 -> 700 -> 693 -> 700 -> 693

Also mortgage / auto inquiries will all be listed and scored as one... didn't have any problems with the mortgage inquiries even though some were coded a little strangely, didn't know enough to be able to test the auto inquiries when I was last car shopping.

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

OMW2_HighAcheiver — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 01:28:56 GMT

So I can be clear, when I was shopping for my vehicle, the dealership ran the hell out of my credit report of course. The 5 inquiries count (calculate) on my report as ONE but reflects FIVE individual? So really it's physically damaging when a creditor see it, however, not damaging my score so much?

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

CH-7-Mission-Accomplished — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 02:42:00 GMT

@peaved_about_credit wrote:
So I can be clear, when I was shopping for my vehicle, the dealership ran the hell out of my credit report of course. The 5 inquiries count (calculate) on my report as ONE but reflects FIVE individual? So really it's physically damaging when a creditor see it, however, not damaging my score so much?

Yes, you are correct. It is not necessarily damaging when a creditor sees them so long as you get the chance to explain them. Always recon a denial and if inquiries are part of the reason, explain them as car shopping.

Sometimes lenders will deny you and say it is due to inquiries, but it is really due to something else in their internal scoring system. They just have to give you a FICO reason and they seem to like that one.

Also remember that most credit card lenders only pull one report (Cap 1 likes to pull all three), so they will only see the inquiries for that one bureau. So somebody might have 20 inquiries from car shopping, but say only four were on their TU report (due to randomness of creditor pulls). That credit card company would only see the four inquiries. Likewise, five inquires spread evenly across three bureaus isn't that many, if they were not being scored as one for FICO scoring.

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Thomas_Thumb — Mon, 14 Sep 2015 00:14:17 GMT

@bada_bing wrote:

Another thing about only FICO8 score model is that the sum total potential
of all score contributors is over 850, but the score itself is capped at 850.
It's possible to have a little extra credit hidden in an 850 score that could
make up for a minor ding like utilization not perfectly optimized. That's the
reason some 850 scores seem so rock solid over time, they actually have
some extra points hidden in the score. Not all 850 scores are equal, but
there is no way to see it without stressing them to the point of falling below
850.

Not that ayone cares... but VantageScore 2.0 probably has even more buffer at its max 990 score than does Fico 8 classic at its max 850 score.

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Thomas_Thumb — Sat, 03 Oct 2015 02:35:14 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
EQ Beacon 5.0 during a short window with flatlined scores while I was going through my mortgage process.

Inquiry count: 3 -> 2 -> 3 -> 2 -> 3

Score: 693 -> 700 -> 693 -> 700 -> 693

Also mortgage / auto inquiries will all be listed and scored as one... didn't have any problems with the mortgage inquiries even though some were coded a little strangely, didn't know enough to be able to test the auto inquiries when I was last car shopping.

Revelate, here is some data I uncovered through Fico 8 bankcard monthly monitoring on my AT&T Universal/Citi card. This score is not maxed out - so no buffer to mute factor impact. I now see some score fluctuation likely due # cards reporting. Here is the data for general interest. There are some gaps due to reports not being pulled for some months.

Your Fico Score is 882.

Congratulations - You have an exceptional FICO Score.The below factor(s) are informative but not significant as they represent very marginal areas where your score was adversely affected. Keep up your good financial habits!

Key Factor(s) affecting your FICO Score:

* Too many accounts with balances

FICO Scores consider the total number of accounts a consumer holds with balances including credit card balance amounts that appear from the most recent account statements - even if that balance was paid off. Your score was impacted by having too many accounts with balances

Report	EQ Fico 08	# Inquiries	# cards reporting	Max UT % on any	Aggregate
Date	Bankcard score	less than 1 yr	balance (out of 6)	card reporting	UT %
3/24/2015	877	1	3	3	1%
4/21/2015	876	1	n/a	n/a	n/a < 5%
5/26/2015	871	1	5	6	3%
6/23/2015	876	1	n/a	n/a	n/a < 5%
7/28/2015	886	0	3	3	2%
8/25/2015	882	0	4	n/a	n/a < 5%

Potentially lost 6 points going from 3 of 6 to 5 of 6 cards reporting. Possibly 4 points going from 3 of 6 to 4 of 6.

Inquiry dropping off potentially worth 9 points for the EQ 08 BC model.

Here is a graph of Fico 8 classic scores for comparison

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Revelate — Wed, 16 Sep 2015 16:07:25 GMT

@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
EQ Beacon 5.0 during a short window with flatlined scores while I was going through my mortgage process.

Inquiry count: 3 -> 2 -> 3 -> 2 -> 3

Score: 693 -> 700 -> 693 -> 700 -> 693

Also mortgage / auto inquiries will all be listed and scored as one... didn't have any problems with the mortgage inquiries even though some were coded a little strangely, didn't know enough to be able to test the auto inquiries when I was last car shopping.
Revelate, here is some data I uncovered through Fico 8 bankcard monthly monitoring on my AT&T Universal/Citi card. This score is not maxed out - so no buffer to mute factor impact. I now see some score fluctuation likely due # cards reporting. Here is the data for general interest. There are some gaps due to reports not being pulled for some months.

Report EQ Fico 08 # Inquiries # cards reporting Max UT % on any Aggregate
Date Bankcard score less than 1 yr balance (out of 6) card reporting UT %
3/24/2015 877 1 3 3 1%
4/21/2015 876 1 n/a n/a n/a < 5%
5/26/2015 871 1 5 6 3%
6/23/2015 876 1 n/a n/a n/a < 5%
7/28/2015 886 0 3 3 2%
8/25/2015 882 0 4 n/a n/a < 5%

Potentially lost 6 points going from 3 of 6 to 5 of 6 cards reporting. Possibly 4 points going from 3 of 6 to 4 of 6.
Inquiry dropping off potentially worth 9 points for the EQ 08 BC model.

Given your file think that's legit, nice datapoints thank you!

Re: 1 Year old HP Inquiry -

Anonymous — Fri, 18 Sep 2015 20:38:08 GMT

I had the same issue, but mine is worse. I have 10+ inquiries. A lot might count as 1, but I am convinced that they all don't. The thing that annoys me is that they reflect as far more than 1. So I also feel like that damages me when and if I apply for something. At least come the end of November, the score damage will be over.

Does an inquiry stop effecting your score on the exact date of the inquiry one year later or the beginning of the month of the inquiry anniversary?

I might be sensitive about this because on my EQ, the only negative thing hurting my score is said to be the outstanding % of the auto loan.

What is the % that an installment loan no longer effects a score?

This same factor does not come up as a negative hindering my score with either EX or TU.