topic Re: Thick VS Thin profiles in General Credit Topics

Thick VS Thin profiles

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 20:32:40 GMT

While gardening, I'm looking at Creditors and wondering.

Discover: like thin and clean

AmEx: likes thin and clean?

Barclays: like thicker

Chase: likes thicker and clean for at least 24 months

Citi: likes thick and clean for??? BK unfriendly

Cap1: doesn't really care

US Bank: likes clean. BK unfriendly

BoA: I haven't the clue

Any majors I missed due apologies.

Clean I get. What constitutes a thicker file really? At this moment in time, my AAoA sucks, last card opened Labor Day. My Overall age as of this post is 11 years with installment loans. This constitutes a thicker file? 2 yrs post garden for next revolver I'll be 13 yrs overall, 2 yrs AAoA revolver, 1 yr Installment - buying new car inevitable.

Humor me while I research please.

Re: Thick VS Thin profiles

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 22:00:14 GMT

Thick is relative. Credit ofcourse takes a combination of everything and there is no hard fast rule. Eg: but 3 cards and an installment with an Aaoa of 3 years, is likely not as nice as a file with 6 cards, an auto, and a student loan with an Aaoa of 1-2.

Of course this is all relative but your really just proving you can 'handle' owning and/using these credit lines. More lines gives you more oppurtunities to show that obviously

Re: Thick VS Thin profiles

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 22:30:46 GMT

Hey BB! I am a little confused by your post. It begins by you laying out some conjectures about a number of different CC companies. This one, you say, likes thin profiles. That one, you believe, likes thick profiles.

After you make all those claims, you then say you don't actually know what you mean by thick and thin.

That's a bit like making a lot of claims about cities using the words North and South -- and then saying, Ummm btw guys I don't really know what I mean by North and South -- can you help?

The way I have seen the words used is to refer chiefly to the number of accounts in your profile (and perhaps secondarily to account age). So an example of a thin profile is how most people start out. At first they typically only have one account, like a credit card. Their account is thin, like a sandwich with only one very thin piece of ham on it. But if over time their account accumulates some more accounts (more ham, lettuce, turkey, swiss, etc.) it becomes thicker.

When a profile is extremely thin, there is not much to go on, and it may be so thin that FICO can't even give it a score. (One credit card that is three months old.) And even if it does have a score, a manual reviewer would be dubious because there's only one or two examples of how you have handled credit. Thicker profiles involve many examples of credit. Thicker is not synonymous with Good -- a person could have a ten year history with many accounts, some of which show that the consumer doesn't make payments on time. Very thick profiles tend to more easily absorb impact from adding a new account, because the new account is only 1 account of several.

In your case, you sound like you have many accounts. (A reasonable guess because your profile is 11 years old but your AAoA is very low.) Your profile is certainly plenty thick. People can develop very high scores with three credit cards and an installment loan. If you are interested in developing a higher score, your focus should be solely on the big FICO categories.

Hope that helps.

PS. I would be curious to hear more about what you based your CCC conjectures on. For example, on what basis would you guess that Discover doesn't like a person to have several accounts?

Re: Thick VS Thin profiles

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 23:03:53 GMT

Thanks for replying! You are appreciated!

This is all an accumulation of written gossip from not only this site, but 2 others, on statements made by Users on each company. When these speculations are made, I wonder what exactly is the assumed definition of thick VS thin. As a human being, I of course look to myself as say, am I thick or thin? Enter body habitus jokes here, I KNOW. I find more credit forums as the days progress.

I perhaps should have phrased it as "these are statements I've seen from the general internet consensus and I need definitions on terminology" Oops. Blame low blood sugar.

My obligatory statements:

To me, it is fact that FICO scoring can only be speculated as each profile is different.

To me, it is gossip not fact what each lender prefers in a lesse. Perhaps gossip isn't the right adjective, and I apologize hope you get my drift.

I have questions that sometimes I must post to find the answer bc I can't find it. It feels like cracking a code the more I delve deeper and me likey.

Re: Thick VS Thin profiles

Anonymous — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 00:02:08 GMT

Ahhhh! OK. Now I understand the first part of your post better.

Personally I wouldn't pay too much attention to gossip (as you probably are right to call it) about what people imagine are the secret agendas of each credit card company. Like much gossip in life it may not be particularly reliable. And if you think about it, it's not especially actionable. If it were really true that Amex and Discover really only liked thin profiles (immensely unlikely) what does somebody do about that if they want an Amex? Close a bunch of their accounts and wait ten years so they can apply for one?

Better in my view is to focus on the well established things that ALL the credit card companies like you to have. Like paying your bills on time. Avoiding high amounts of CC debt. Allowing your accounts to age. Having a history of at least one installment loan and at least 2-3 credit cards. Etc. These boring unsexy well-known principles are more likely to help us out then speculation about the particular idiosyncracies of each CCC, most of which may be imagined.

Another way of saying that is: rather than trying to guess which card companies are least interested in clean reports, focus on making yours completely clean so that you are attractive to all of them. And as far as thinness or thickness, allow that to happen naturally where you focus on products that are giving you an especial benefit. Some people will naturally end up with two dozen accounts. Others will end up with 4-5. Either is fine.

Good luck!

Re: Thick VS Thin profiles

takeshi74 — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 13:35:07 GMT

As stated above, thick and thin are relative.

All creditors like thicker files with 100% postiive payment history, low revolving utilization, longer AAoA, better mix of credit and less recent activity. See also:

http://www.myfico.com/crediteducation/whatsinyourscore.aspx

However that's also relative and a creditor can certainly grant an approval to one who hasn't maxed out each of those factors. You seem to be conflating "will approve" with "likes". The minimum underwriting requirements do not define what a creditor likes. An approval by itself is a low bar and just the first step. One's credit not only determines the approval but the limit and APR that one qualifies for as well.

Instead of trying to figure out if you can just qualify for an approval I recommend using the info on the factors above and then looking at your own reports to identify and address your deficiencies. Generally speaking you want your credit in the best possible shape you can get it when you apply. Of course, compromises do have to be made and everyone cannot wait until their credit is perfect to apply but if there are glaring issues then you'll want to work on those.

@Anonymous wrote:
My Overall age as of this post is 11 years with installment loans. This constitutes a thicker file? 2 yrs post garden for next revolver I'll be 13 yrs overall, 2 yrs AAoA revolver, 1 yr Installment - buying new car inevitable.

How many accounts are on your reports? What's your AAoA including all accounts -- not just revolvers? When do you anticipate that you'll need to purchase a new car? For a big ticket item like that you definitely want to get things in line and plan ahead.

Re: Thick VS Thin profiles

Anonymous — Sun, 11 Oct 2015 04:29:19 GMT

Discover likes clean but doesn't like thin files, reason why they declined me That's ok, I have 4 cards now and in gardening and will try again next year.

Re: Thick VS Thin profiles

Anonymous — Sun, 11 Oct 2015 13:09:08 GMT

Thanks so much, Tess. I love hearing stories like yours that involve concrete events.

Do you happen to remember the exact language they used in their rejection letter? And also can you tell us, at that time, how many accounts did you have and how old each one was? (Exact age isn't important, just a rough guess.)

Re: Thick VS Thin profiles

Thomas_Thumb — Sun, 11 Oct 2015 14:23:01 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for replying! You are appreciated!

This is all an accumulation of written gossip from not only this site, but 2 others, on statements made by Users on each company. When these speculations are made, I wonder what exactly is the assumed definition of thick VS thin. As a human being, I of course look to myself as say, am I thick or thin? Enter body habitus jokes here, I KNOW. I find more credit forums as the days progress.

I perhaps should have phrased it as "these are statements I've seen from the general internet consensus and I need definitions on terminology" Oops. Blame low blood sugar.

My obligatory statements:
To me, it is fact that FICO scoring can only be speculated as each profile is different.
To me, it is gossip not fact what each lender prefers in a lesse. Perhaps gossip isn't the right adjective, and I apologize hope you get my drift.

I have questions that sometimes I must post to find the answer bc I can't find it. It feels like cracking a code the more I delve deeper and me likey.

Discover card is more aggressive than many in courting college students with thin files - or more likely no file (such as my daughter). She has received "pre-qualified" letters from both DC and WF every 6 months for the last 2 years. I wish she would get a couple CCs to start building credit while in school.

Targeting "the young" may be one reason for the "thin file" categorization. In reality, clean thick files are not going to be denied credit, but new blood means targeting a different demographic.Get em on board early and hopefully keep em happy by offering periodic soft pull (or no pull) CLI request options and a competitive cash back program.

Re: Thick VS Thin profiles

Anonymous — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:40:00 GMT

Y'all are awesome. Thank you.

"Thin" file has very few varying TL's reporting.

"Thin" file could have younger TL's reporting. This opens more debate, but leaving general summary for now.

What I've interpreted from everyone's responses is this:
Find what I'm lacking.
Clean reports.
Pay bills on time.

Answer:

Get my Revolving Age to 2yrs. Current overall age of my reports is 1.9-2 yrs

Rebuilding mode. Inaccuracies, 7 yrs +180 days.

GW late. Keep payment perfection. At 91%.

Approaching "thicker" file status in Oct 2017.

Lipstick on my Pig.

Re: Thick VS Thin profiles

Anonymous — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 01:30:19 GMT

To sum it up a Thick file just means you can handle multiple different types of credit. An example of a thick file would be:

1. Installment Debt = Loans, Mortgages - Important to lenders because these forms of debt are set payment's over a course of time.

2. Revolving Debt = Credit cards - Important but lenders know you control this type of debt unlike installment loans which is debt agreed over a set amount of time.

3. Credit History = Average Age of all Combined. - Just shows how well you've been managing your debt when no one's looking.

That's basically it. I could go on for hours about how it's this and that trying to make myself sound like some credit guru but really that's all it is.

Now do you need all three factors to have good credit? Not at all, Fico and other credit agencies will tell you this but frankly most of the stuff they say is common sense and not helpful at all.

Having ok credit history on revolving debt for 2+ years, having a combined credit limit on all cards above $30k with no or little debt & low credit utilization puts you in the 700s.

Good Luck.

Re: Thick VS Thin profiles

Revelate — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 02:46:07 GMT

Actually thin vs thick is a standard industry term in the mortgage world, which has changed a little over time, but the current model:

2 or less tradelines: thin file

3+ tradelines: thick file

The split between the two groups used to be at 4 tradelines, I don't know when they changed it, but it has nothing to do with length of payment history - one tradeline open for 20 years is still a thin file; however, admittedly the term has been somewhat bastardized here much like the use of "prime vs subprime" to apply to things like credit cards.

Re: Thick VS Thin profiles

Anonymous — Wed, 21 Oct 2015 17:54:45 GMT

Hi credit guy, I can't remember the exact language that they used in the letter but I remember reading "thin line od credit. When I called them, they asked me if I want to apply cc with my husband, I politely declined.

It was early August and at that time I only have citi secured $300, Capone plat $500 and QS1 $500. I applied cause Credit Karma shows that I have good chance of getting approved

Re: Thick VS Thin profiles

Anonymous — Wed, 21 Oct 2015 18:48:37 GMT

Well, Tess, as you have heard others mentioned, Discover tends to be more accepting of thinner profiles than others, though no issuer prefers thin to thick.

Hard to know what was going on. The letter might have been incorporating an idea of "lack of age" into its idea on Thin -- who knows for sure. But it looks like you have four cards now. If you use them responsibly each month for another six months you will have no problem getting a Discover if you really want one.

(Tip: in the month before you apply, get all cards but one to a zero balance with your total utilization in the 1-4% range.)