topic Re: FDCPA Lovers on this forum tick me off. in General Credit Topics

FDCPA Lovers on this forum tick me off.

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Apr 2016 01:10:00 GMT

Ok here is my rant. I use this forum for credit repair and advice. It is the only source of credit info i find credible and not trying to sell me some BS on the whole web. "Gold Star" 99% of the time i search on this forum all the time. hardly ever post questions here because i know they have been asked and answered a million times over before. And i really appreciate the people and knowledge found on this site. My only problem's on this forum are as follows

1. The FDCPA is not your friend. It is rules of engagement in financial war fare.
Too many people on this forum follow it to the T as if God wrote it. Come off your high horse. Im a debt collector contracted by the US dept of ed i know the FDCPA and it is in place to mainly set guide lines of how a banking institutions are aloud to collect debt. Which is always in their favor. And im sorry but banks losing money is better than your avrage joe losing money.

2. Most people on this forum follow some code of ethics that make the "debtor" the bad guy for trying to remove accurate information from thwir credit report. Seven years is ridiculous ammount of time to report debt. Im 23 years old. 7 years ago i didnt even have credit. People change over short ammounts of time especially in their younger years.
Especially with medical collections. My "risk factor" or score shouldnt be based on how i repay or dont my medical bills. Because me having a medical emergency is not my fault or anyones.

3. Quit worshipping Fair Isaac. They are a company paid by banks and you for a "Score" of how trustworthy a person is. They are the enemy. And who made them God to decide what are worthiness is.

Rant over.

Re: FDCPA Lovers on this forum tick me off.

CH-7-Mission-Accomplished — Wed, 20 Apr 2016 01:40:50 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Ok here is my rant. I use this forum for credit repair and advice. It is the only source of credit info i find credible and not trying to sell me some BS on the whole web. "Gold Star" 99% of the time i search on this forum all the time. hardly ever post questions here because i know they have been asked and answered a million times over before. And i really appreciate the people and knowledge found on this site. My only problem's on this forum are as follows

1. The FDCPA is not your friend. It is rules of engagement in financial war fare.
Too many people on this forum follow it to the T as if God wrote it. Come off your high horse. Im a debt collector contracted by the US dept of ed i know the FDCPA and it is in place to mainly set guide lines of how a banking institutions are aloud to collect debt. Which is always in their favor. And im sorry but banks losing money is better than your avrage joe losing money.

2. Most people on this forum follow some code of ethics that make the "debtor" the bad guy for trying to remove accurate information from thwir credit report. Seven years is ridiculous ammount of time to report debt. Im 23 years old. 7 years ago i didnt even have credit. People change over short ammounts of time especially in their younger years.
Especially with medical collections. My "risk factor" or score shouldnt be based on how i repay or dont my medical bills. Because me having a medical emergency is not my fault or anyones.

3. Quit worshipping Fair Isaac. They are a company paid by banks and you for a "Score" of how trustworthy a person is. They are the enemy. And who made them God to decide what are worthiness is.

Rant over.

Thank-you for sharing.

Re: FDCPA Lovers on this forum tick me off.

JustinA — Wed, 20 Apr 2016 02:01:29 GMT

Sounds good so in the slight event you work for my financial aid lender...you can stop my inaccurate reporting?

Re: FDCPA Lovers on this forum tick me off.

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Apr 2016 02:36:34 GMT

@JustinA wrote:
Sounds good so in the slight event you work for my financial aid lender...you can stop my inaccurate reporting?

Ha ha +1

Re: FDCPA Lovers on this forum tick me off.

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Apr 2016 02:39:58 GMT

Wish i could if it were up to me i would forgive all student loans. But im not Obama. But he does have a pen to do soo. This is coming from a guy who makes well over $50k a year with no college education who is voting for bernie who would end my job. Think about that.

Re: FDCPA Lovers on this forum tick me off.

RobertEG — Wed, 20 Apr 2016 06:45:40 GMT

You might share your concerns about the FDCPA and FCRA with your congressmen, who have the ability to change it.

As for consumer fights in the debt collection area, the CFPB is in the middle of a proposed rulemaking process intended to address numerous concerns over the lack of consumer rights under various provisions of the FDCPA. Proposed new rules are forthcoming.

The CFPB cant alter the FDCPA itslef, but in areas subject to interpretation,they can and will enact rules to tighten things up on the consumer rights side.

The real consumer rights efforts in the debt collection practices reform arena are currently going on in the state capitols, not in Washington. More ststes are enacting much stricter debt collection practices statutes and regs. TX has long had legislation extending consumer rights, and both CA and NY have followed the trend.

Rants are good if ranted to the right place. Constructive rants about deficiencies in the statute ARE currently bearing ftuits on many fronts.

I would encourge you to contact the CFPB and your federal and state legislators, offering your suggestions on needed changes.

Re: FDCPA Lovers on this forum tick me off.

UncleB — Wed, 20 Apr 2016 07:10:28 GMT

I'm not sure where to begin on this, so I'll just jump right in...

@Anonymous wrote:

1. The FDCPA is not your friend. It is rules of engagement in financial war fare.
Too many people on this forum follow it to the T as if God wrote it. Come off your high horse. Im a debt collector contracted by the US dept of ed i know the FDCPA and it is in place to mainly set guide lines of how a banking institutions are aloud to collect debt. Which is always in their favor. And im sorry but banks losing money is better than your avrage joe losing money.

I agree that the FDCPA isn't our 'friend', it's actually not anybody's friend... it's merely the rules that we all have to go by, at least until the rules are changed.

I'll add that usually making sure the rules are followed to a 'T' is the best way to protect yourself from a shoddy collector or agency.

@Anonymous wrote:

2. Most people on this forum follow some code of ethics that make the "debtor" the bad guy for trying to remove accurate information from thwir credit report. Seven years is ridiculous ammount of time to report debt. Im 23 years old. 7 years ago i didnt even have credit. People change over short ammounts of time especially in their younger years.
Especially with medical collections. My "risk factor" or score shouldnt be based on how i repay or dont my medical bills. Because me having a medical emergency is not my fault or anyones.

As for following a code of 'ethics' regarding removing accurate information, the ToS of the website prohibits advocating providing misleading or inaccurate info for the purpose of raising a FICO score or otherwise improving credit standing.

While early exclusion isn't quite the same, many folks simply avoid the topic altogether in the interest of keeping to the 'spirit' of the ToS, while others discuss it in a deliberate manner to stay within the ToS.

@Anonymous wrote:

3. Quit worshipping Fair Isaac. They are a company paid by banks and you for a "Score" of how trustworthy a person is. They are the enemy. And who made them God to decide what are worthiness is.

Rant over.

Not really sure what to say about this one... Fair Isaac (FICO) is the host of our site here, and they provide this forum for us to share information on how to better our financial health as well as other related topics.

I've never thought of my FICO score as a rating of me as a person, it's simply a tool for people who don't know me (i.e. credit issuers) to use to decide if I'm a good credit risk. I've known not-so-good people who had fantastic FICO scores, and very good, trustworthy people who had low FICO scores (I was previously one of the latter). As FICO will be quick to tell you, they don't make credit decisions, they merely provide the algorithm that parses the data credit issuers to use to make the actual decision. They are certainly not 'God' by any means, and it's the lenders who decide to use (or not use) their services.

Finally, I'll just say that like it or not, anybody that wishes to participate in the financial system (that is, most of us) will be impacted by credit scores of some type eventually. It's generally agreed that knowing up-front how 'the system' works is best, so that we can put ourselves in a better position to reach our goals, whatever they may be.

I also want to say that from the tone of your message I feel that you've had a negative experience here, and if that's the case I'm genuinely sorry. If you approach the topics here with an 'open mind' you'll find many folks who are very willing to share their own data points, experience, and advice to help you reach your own goals.

Re: FDCPA Lovers on this forum tick me off.

Revelate — Wed, 20 Apr 2016 08:03:29 GMT

@UncleB wrote:
I've never thought of my FICO score as a rating of me as a person, it's simply a tool for people who don't know me (i.e. credit issuers) to use to decide if I'm a good credit risk. I've known not-so-good people who had fantastic FICO scores, and very good, trustworthy people who had low FICO scores (I was previously one of the latter). As FICO will be quick to tell you, they don't make credit decisions, they merely provide the algorithm that parses the data credit issuers to use to make the actual decision. They are certainly not 'God' by any means, and it's the lenders who decide to use (or not use) their services.
.

To be fair, some people are under the impression that a poor FICO score means you're a shoddy person.

It's come up a couple times on the forums over the years and probably is more prevalent off the forums; usually is met with a firm clue-by-four here at least. It's really no different than any measure, IQ or employment, or salary, or assets come to mind: can still be a howling jackass as a person among other less savory qualities regardless of any of those facts.

The funny thing is, the rare occasion I talk credit with someone randomly offline, their scores are all right around where mine are... and these folks by many measures would be considered quality in terms of communal involvement, or financial success, or even the benchmark I use of "benefit to humanity" but credit scores meh. I don't think many people have a good concept of credit and how it impacts one's financial life, but even with a crap score, can always work around it, and work to improve it.

Frankly most people don't find this forum unless something went wrong in their credit lives, and fortunately most people aren't outright hypocrites, so this forum tends to be the antithesis of holier-than-thou when it comes to one's credit score... and speaking as a former moderator, we'd sanction someone doing such rather harshly: it's diametrically opposed to the primary vision that FICO Consumer has for this place.

(assuming we see it, or are notified of it by the Report Inappropriate Content option, and to be clear it is absolutely inappropriate).

Re: FDCPA Lovers on this forum tick me off.

CJ7 — Fri, 22 Apr 2016 07:26:16 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Seven years is ridiculous ammount of time to report debt.

Agreed! Tradelines should be like 5, and medical maybe 2...

Re: FDCPA Lovers on this forum tick me off.

Kevin86475391 — Fri, 22 Apr 2016 17:04:34 GMT

Thought-provoking topic.

@Anonymous wrote:

2. Most people on this forum follow some code of ethics that make the "debtor" the bad guy for trying to remove accurate information from thwir credit report. Seven years is ridiculous ammount of time to report debt. Im 23 years old. 7 years ago i didnt even have credit. People change over short ammounts of time especially in their younger years.
Especially with medical collections. My "risk factor" or score shouldnt be based on how i repay or dont my medical bills. Because me having a medical emergency is not my fault or anyones.

I both agree and disagree to some extent.

I do think medical debt and student loans should be handled quite differently from credit cards, mortgages, personal loans, and auto loans. I'm not sure exactly what I think the solution would be, but IMO they should factor in completely differently. A medical debt just isn't like credit card debt and a student loan just isn't like a mortgage/auto/personal loan.

As you point out, it's true that someone can change a lot over 7 years, especially younger people...but IMO there isn't really a solution to that. Many major financial relationships do last for 7 years, longer, or almost as long. Mortgages are pretty much always 15 years+, auto loans are often up to 5 years, and even credit card relationships, with a relatively faster turnover rate, can still last that long or longer. I think it's quite reasonable for lenders to want to see data points covering the past 7 years before extending major credit.

I'm a firm believer in people making their own decisions and what other people do with their finances is none of my business. That said, while I keep my mouth shut, I always think, "Hmm, really?" when someone under about 30 gets a mortgage or someone under about 24 or 25 gets a car loan. It's certainly their business and not for me to judge, but those are big, long-term financial commitments, and as you pointed out, someone at 23 may not have even had a credit score 7 years ago.

That's also why it's kind of ridiculous how the student loan system works. Should an 18 or 19 year old really being taking out 80K in student loan debt? Even if they're the most level-headed, intelligent, responsible person ever, they simply can't know what their life is going to be like by the time they're 25 or 30 or 35+ - which quite likely is how long that's going to take to pay off. Again, not that I have a solution, short of making college a great deal less expensive and expanding scholarship/grant programs.

Personally I also think there should be a time limit distinction - as well as the credit scoring distinctions already in place - between something like a late/missed payment, versus actual unpaid debt like a collections, lien, or judgement. There's a big difference between being late to pay something versus not paying at all. I think 7 years is much too long to show late payments, but not at all too long to show unpaid debt.

@Anonymous wrote:

3. Quit worshipping Fair Isaac. They are a company paid by banks and you for a "Score" of how trustworthy a person is. They are the enemy. And who made them God to decide what are worthiness is.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but I personally don't believe that's an accurate or productive viewpoint. For one thing Fair Isaac is simply providing data, not themselves deciding whether or not to extend credit to someone. However, I also don't think big banks and financial institutions are the enemy. There is no enemy. Just two parties doing business with each other.

I know debt and finances get personal for people. If you're in danger of losing your home or not being able to afford to pay for car repairs, then of course it feels personal...but it really isn't and I actually think it can be very beneficial for people to remember that to a bank they aren't a person and that's completely okay IMO and not something to criticize. I think emotion should be taken out of the equation. The bank isn't trying to personally screw someone over. They're just doing business, and actually I think consumers could benefit too from not viewing banks and financial institions through a personal lens, but merely as an entity they're doing business with.

As consumers people should try to be as unemotional and purely rational as possible when it comes to entering into financial decisions. Naturally emotions will inform and influence financial decisions - we're not robots - BUT while emotions can inform financial decisions I think we should try as hard as possible to prevent them from dictating financial decisions. If a financial contract either isn't a good deal for me, or isn't something I'll be able to uphold on my end, then I shouldn't enter it. That's true even 'if I really want to' or 'it sucks if I can't get my dream house/car/computer" or "I absolutely deserve this thing/trip/experience." All of that's irrelvant and if I mess up and let emotions dictate my decision, or simply make a mistake and inaccurately assess my situation...well that's my fault and I shouldn't blame the bank or the company providing my credit scores.

As I said, that is why student loan debt and medical debt are different. They're a lot less voluntary - even the student loan debt - and people often don't understand the consquences before accepting, or don't really have a choice. By contrast people have a lot more choice about whether or not to buy a car/home/computer. Obviously they don't have a choice about paying for food and essential bills, but there are and should be other options for that including government assistance, and the amounts are drastically lower than something like a hospital stay or 4-year degree and much more reasonably something people can scrape by on by eliminating/reducing other expenses.

Of course those are just my opinions and informed by my own biases, personal history, and world view.

Re: FDCPA Lovers on this forum tick me off.

Appleman — Fri, 22 Apr 2016 19:10:09 GMT

Rage against the machine! Way to start an engaging post on a Friday......

People follow FDCPA because it is the law. It is the legal way to collect debt and gives both the banks and consumers a method to deal with unpaid debt. Simply calling out a portion of the forum and stating they 'tick you off', is hardly in the spirit of the forum.

"And im sorry but banks losing money is better than your avrage joe losing money." Really? Banks employee a large workforce and certainly deserve to make money. Enough average Joe's default on their obligations and my rate for borrowing increases and/or the bank fails and lots of people lose their jobs. Two sides to the story.

The forum TOS are to help all members receive advice that does not break the law (we are providing OPINION but do the best to be accurate).There are plenty of web sites that will give you all sorts of nefarious information legal or not. No need to decrease the credibility of the information on this site by stooping to such a level.

Within higher education, research has shown that the best predictor of future success is past success. The same thing likely holds true within finances. Credit score, time on job, housing situation all play factors in the credit game we all play. You are right, life is not fair.

Some of us on these boards have made 'bad' decisions or had 'hard' luck that set us back however we are all here trying to improve the score for a better tomorrow.

Your old testament preaching of worshiping a false god (Fair Isaac) is a bit of a reach. Most of us are just trying to figure out how to best play the FICO game. What strategy will best improve my situation.

The reality is that FICO scoring works. The amount of computer horsepower that goes into crunching our spending and credit habits is mind boogling. The coorporation has programmers, financial specialists and and even behavioral psychologists (Ok complete educated guess) that continually refine the scoring system. Because their system works the people loaning money have decided that the best predictor of you credit worthiness is your FICO score. Doesn't mean you are not a worthy person, just going to be more expensive for you to borrow money.

Re: FDCPA Lovers on this forum tick me off.

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 20:30:06 GMT

"2. Most people on this forum follow some code of ethics that make the "debtor" the bad guy for trying to remove accurate information from thwir credit report. Seven years is ridiculous ammount of time to report debt. Im 23 years old. 7 years ago i didnt even have credit. People change over short amounts of time especially in their younger years. Especially with medical collections. My "risk factor" or score shouldnt be based on how i repay or dont my medical bills. Because me having a medical emergency is not my fault or anyones."

Not to pick on you guy, but you should've talked to the corresponding medical agency that serviced you. Most groups like that will negotiate and will work in helping to secure some type of installment plan so that they could get some immediate cash instead of nothing.

Anyway, risk factor is a complicated subject and sometimes people are just screwed just for being the wrong age or in the wrong demographic as someone else who is much more of a risk factor.

Also, like you said, you're 23 years old. I'm only 25. Don't let these mistakes/missteps define who you are. They're just road bumps to a healthy and happy financial future.

The rules as they stand are the rules. Everyone who can obtain credit has to follow them, from 18 to 88. Some people know the rules better than others or know where to look to learn them. It pays to educate and learn as much as possible about how the financial system works, period. I don't see it as wrong whatsoever to try and gain against what is very much a stacked deck in favor of the consumer. Hold them responsible sure, but give them the means to act responsibly so they can behave responsibly. The CFPB is the newest gov't vehicle that will do so.

I think your bone to pick is with FCRA or the FTC RE: FDCPA , in which case, you should contact the CFPB or your local congressman and give him/her an earful.

UncleB made a great point: From what I've seens on these forums, everyone acts in a manner to help one another work on becoming a better financial citizen. Now that's primarily anecdotal, so take it at face value, but the few months of reading I've done on myFICO forums have informed me of the practices and methods some Financial Service firms use to perform their risk assessment as well as help me become a more responsible debtor. That information is extremely valuable and informative in a world inundated with impractical and unnecessary information.

Honestly, I can't think of a better place that has a forum that is better than the community at myFICO.