topic Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries in General Credit Topics

Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

AvaMarie77 — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 22:48:27 GMT

My curent scores are

624, Equifax 1 medical collection, 1 inquirie

684, TransUnion, No collection accounts, 2 inquries

662, Experian, 1 medical collection, 2 inquries

I am an authorized user on two accounts

1. GM Credit card one year old- $500 line

2. Capital One Platinum 13 years old- $455 line

My Credit Cards:

1. Navy Federal CashRewards- $23, 600 4 months old

2. Navy Federal Platinum- $6400 (New from APP Spree)

3. American Express Blue Everyday- $2000 (New from APP Spree)

4. Merrick Bank- $1100 - 8 months old

5. Walmart- $1000 (New from APP Spree)

I have a few questions. Would it be best for me to be taken off as an AU on the GM Credit Card?

How many inquires is considered to many?

Is it time for me to "garden"?

How can I boost my scores?

Any advice would be very helpful, I don't want to mess up no more then I already have. I wish I would have left Walmart alone but I got prequalification happy.

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

sarge12 — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 23:14:36 GMT

@AvaMarie77 wrote:
My curent scores are

624, Equifax 1 medical collection, 1 inquirie
684, TransUnion, No collection accounts, 2 inquries
662, Experian, 1 medical collection, 2 inquries

I am an authorized user on two accounts
1. GM Credit card one year old- $500 line
2. Capital One Platinum 13 years old- $455 line

My Credit Cards:

1. Navy Federal CashRewards- $23, 600 4 months old
2. Navy Federal Platinum- $6400 (New from APP Spree)
3. American Express Blue Everyday- $2000 (New from APP Spree)
4. Merrick Bank- $1100 - 8 months old
5. Walmart- $1000 (New from APP Spree)

I have a few questions. Would it be best for me to be taken off as an AU on the GM Credit Card?

How many inquires is considered to many?

Is it time for me to "garden"?

How can I boost my scores?

Any advice would be very helpful, I don't want to mess up no more then I already have. I wish I would have left Walmart alone but I got prequalification happy.

You have enough revolving credit to build on. You do not really need more, and the AU accounts are of little help as AU accounts are discounted in fico08, and fico09. If I were you, with your scores, I would PIF every month and sit in the garden. I would ask for CLI periodicly if it does not require a HP. A year in the garden, if you PIF with no derogetory reporting and your scores will probably be in the mid 700's provided the medical collections do not escalate to judgements or anything like that.

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

AvaMarie77 — Sun, 04 Sep 2016 02:06:31 GMT

Thanks so much for your response!!

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

Appleman — Sun, 04 Sep 2016 13:58:16 GMT

I agree, drop the AU accounts. You have a 5 figure credit line, those 3 figure credit lines are not likely to help you and if even a small amount is reported on them it could hurt the utilization for your portfolio.

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

Anonymous — Sun, 04 Sep 2016 15:08:09 GMT

Don't worry about inquries, very short term effect if any. People worry to much about them.

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

Anonymous — Sun, 04 Sep 2016 16:56:20 GMT

Garden garden garden! All your accounts are so new!

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

Revelate — Sun, 04 Sep 2016 21:12:20 GMT

Uh.

FICO 8 does count AU's, it just has an anti-abuse algorithm so that some AU's on individual credit reports are not counted. FICO 9 isn't really used yet, and if suddenly the stay at home parent suddenly loses their credit score like happened with the initial FICO 8 rollout, we'll hear a similar outcry and a likely predictable similar response (FICO's backtracking).

Deleting AU's needs to be done with more rigor, namely, what are the open dates and payment history on the AU's vs. the rest of your cards? If it's non-trivially longer and is a clean tradeline, I'd never whack an AU: it might get discounted, OTOH it might *not*. I play for credit score maximization, why would I leave points on the table needlessly? If I had a pretty AU I'd keep it and I'd challenge anyone to provide one reasonable explanation why it makes sense to pre-emptively airstrike them in that scenario.

You can always, always delete it later if a late or whatever shows up, and the limits in this question are so irrelevant that you'll lose what, 10 points even if they're maxxed out? /yawn.

If it's an ugly AU, then kick it to the curb... otherwise hold it for now.

ETA: FICO 04 and earlier absolutely do count AU's, and those (EQ 04, TU 04, EX 98) still underwrite 99.99% of the mortgages in the United States and as such in my estimation is way more important than any FICO 8 pull and absurdly more so than any FICO 9 one currently. Optimize for the most expensive purchases in one's life from a credit scoring perspective, if some other credit score discounts them so what?

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

takeshi74 — Mon, 05 Sep 2016 00:45:56 GMT

AvaMarie77 wrote:
Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

It's not just a matter of the number of inquiries. It depends on one's credit profie. A stronger credit profile could easily handle a given number of inquiries while a thinner profile and/or a profile with issues could run into problems with the same number or even less inquiries.

@AvaMarie77 wrote:
How can I boost my scores?

Hit the Rebuilding subforum and carefully research to see what you can do about your collections. You can't just rely on the passage of time. Indentify the issues on your reports and work on addressing what you can. Any scoring model uses the data in a report to generate a score. Good reports lead to good scores.

That said, all those new accounts are having an impact and you do need to let them age.

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

iv — Mon, 05 Sep 2016 17:46:17 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
Uh.

FICO 8 does count AU's, it just has an anti-abuse algorithm so that some AU's on individual credit reports are not counted.

This is, of course, true. You know this, I know this.

But from the number of times myFICO has "Authorized user accounts aren't considered in the calculation of this attribute" as a popup in the Score Ingredients info section... you'd think they were trying to ease everyone into accepting AUs being 100% discounted.

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

Revelate — Mon, 05 Sep 2016 18:48:08 GMT

@iv wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
Uh.

FICO 8 does count AU's, it just has an anti-abuse algorithm so that some AU's on individual credit reports are not counted.

This is, of course, true. You know this, I know this.

But from the number of times myFICO has "Authorized user accounts aren't considered in the calculation of this attribute" as a popup in the Score Ingredients info section... you'd think they were trying to ease everyone into accepting AUs being 100% discounted.

Oh I never saw that; I did catch a couple of other errors in the posted FICO Consumer verbiage over time and they corrected them so it might just be a sloppy posting and we can do similar.

You're right though they might be trying to do that... clearly the lenders want it and we're not their customers (well FICO Business's customers anyway).

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

sarge12 — Mon, 05 Sep 2016 21:36:47 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@iv wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
Uh.

FICO 8 does count AU's, it just has an anti-abuse algorithm so that some AU's on individual credit reports are not counted.

This is, of course, true. You know this, I know this.

But from the number of times myFICO has "Authorized user accounts aren't considered in the calculation of this attribute" as a popup in the Score Ingredients info section... you'd think they were trying to ease everyone into accepting AUs being 100% discounted.
Oh I never saw that; I did catch a couple of other errors in the posted FICO Consumer verbiage over time and they corrected them so it might just be a sloppy posting and we can do similar.

You're right though they might be trying to do that... clearly the lenders want it and we're not their customers (well FICO Business's customers anyway).

I never indicated that AU accounts were not counted at all in fico08, or fico09. They do not carry the same weight in those models as a primary account does though. You can thank some shady credit repair services for that. Some of them were opening accounts in their names, and naming clients as AU on those cards, and making favorable credit behavior on those cards. This practice was making clients scores climb artificially. Fico got wind of the practice and adjusted their alogrithms to give less value to AU accounts.

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

sarge12 — Mon, 05 Sep 2016 21:52:46 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
Uh.

FICO 8 does count AU's, it just has an anti-abuse algorithm so that some AU's on individual credit reports are not counted. FICO 9 isn't really used yet, and if suddenly the stay at home parent suddenly loses their credit score like happened with the initial FICO 8 rollout, we'll hear a similar outcry and a likely predictable similar response (FICO's backtracking).

Deleting AU's needs to be done with more rigor, namely, what are the open dates and payment history on the AU's vs. the rest of your cards? If it's non-trivially longer and is a clean tradeline, I'd never whack an AU: it might get discounted, OTOH it might *not*. I play for credit score maximization, why would I leave points on the table needlessly? If I had a pretty AU I'd keep it and I'd challenge anyone to provide one reasonable explanation why it makes sense to pre-emptively airstrike them in that scenario.

You can always, always delete it later if a late or whatever shows up, and the limits in this question are so irrelevant that you'll lose what, 10 points even if they're maxxed out? /yawn.

If it's an ugly AU, then kick it to the curb... otherwise hold it for now.

ETA: FICO 04 and earlier absolutely do count AU's, and those (EQ 04, TU 04, EX 98) still underwrite 99.99% of the mortgages in the United States and as such in my estimation is way more important than any FICO 8 pull and absurdly more so than any FICO 9 one currently. Optimize for the most expensive purchases in one's life from a credit scoring perspective, if some other credit score discounts them so what?

I agree that AU accounts count 100% in the fico scores used for mortgages, but count less in those most widely used for credit cards. I also see no benefit being removed from an AU that is being handled responsibly. Truth be told though, with the small credit limits on those AU accounts it will not make much difference either way.

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

Revelate — Mon, 05 Sep 2016 23:30:53 GMT

@sarge12 wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
Uh.

FICO 8 does count AU's, it just has an anti-abuse algorithm so that some AU's on individual credit reports are not counted. FICO 9 isn't really used yet, and if suddenly the stay at home parent suddenly loses their credit score like happened with the initial FICO 8 rollout, we'll hear a similar outcry and a likely predictable similar response (FICO's backtracking).

Deleting AU's needs to be done with more rigor, namely, what are the open dates and payment history on the AU's vs. the rest of your cards? If it's non-trivially longer and is a clean tradeline, I'd never whack an AU: it might get discounted, OTOH it might *not*. I play for credit score maximization, why would I leave points on the table needlessly? If I had a pretty AU I'd keep it and I'd challenge anyone to provide one reasonable explanation why it makes sense to pre-emptively airstrike them in that scenario.

You can always, always delete it later if a late or whatever shows up, and the limits in this question are so irrelevant that you'll lose what, 10 points even if they're maxxed out? /yawn.

If it's an ugly AU, then kick it to the curb... otherwise hold it for now.

ETA: FICO 04 and earlier absolutely do count AU's, and those (EQ 04, TU 04, EX 98) still underwrite 99.99% of the mortgages in the United States and as such in my estimation is way more important than any FICO 8 pull and absurdly more so than any FICO 9 one currently. Optimize for the most expensive purchases in one's life from a credit scoring perspective, if some other credit score discounts them so what?

I agree that AU accounts count 100% in the fico scores used for mortgages, but count less in those most widely used for credit cards. I also see no benefit being removed from an AU that is being handled responsibly. Truth be told though, with the small credit limits on those AU accounts it will not make much difference either way.

Payment history is payment history. Size of limit is irrelevant to that (tne majority) of the FICO calculation. If they're clean and increasing one's AAOA, keep them.

Regarding your other post, where did the idea that AU's were counted less in the algorithm for FICO 8? If they're counted at all it's the full monty as near as it can be determined.

There have been some comments that mortgage lenders will try to discount AU tradelines and do some feng shui hand-waving estimate at score, but that's as far as it goes to my knowledge.

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

sarge12 — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 00:06:21 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@sarge12 wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
Uh.

FICO 8 does count AU's, it just has an anti-abuse algorithm so that some AU's on individual credit reports are not counted. FICO 9 isn't really used yet, and if suddenly the stay at home parent suddenly loses their credit score like happened with the initial FICO 8 rollout, we'll hear a similar outcry and a likely predictable similar response (FICO's backtracking).

Deleting AU's needs to be done with more rigor, namely, what are the open dates and payment history on the AU's vs. the rest of your cards? If it's non-trivially longer and is a clean tradeline, I'd never whack an AU: it might get discounted, OTOH it might *not*. I play for credit score maximization, why would I leave points on the table needlessly? If I had a pretty AU I'd keep it and I'd challenge anyone to provide one reasonable explanation why it makes sense to pre-emptively airstrike them in that scenario.

You can always, always delete it later if a late or whatever shows up, and the limits in this question are so irrelevant that you'll lose what, 10 points even if they're maxxed out? /yawn.

If it's an ugly AU, then kick it to the curb... otherwise hold it for now.

ETA: FICO 04 and earlier absolutely do count AU's, and those (EQ 04, TU 04, EX 98) still underwrite 99.99% of the mortgages in the United States and as such in my estimation is way more important than any FICO 8 pull and absurdly more so than any FICO 9 one currently. Optimize for the most expensive purchases in one's life from a credit scoring perspective, if some other credit score discounts them so what?

I agree that AU accounts count 100% in the fico scores used for mortgages, but count less in those most widely used for credit cards. I also see no benefit being removed from an AU that is being handled responsibly. Truth be told though, with the small credit limits on those AU accounts it will not make much difference either way.
Payment history is payment history. Size of limit is irrelevant to that (tne majority) of the FICO calculation. If they're clean and increasing one's AAOA, keep them.

Regarding your other post, where did the idea that AU's were counted less in the algorithm for FICO 8? If they're counted at all it's the full monty as near as it can be determined.

There have been some comments that mortgage lenders will try to discount AU tradelines and do some feng shui hand-waving estimate at score, but that's as far as it goes to my knowledge.

I had read that AU was discounted on a website, since your denial of this my research has revealed that indeed AU accounts were to be left out of reporting on fico08, but later fico backtracked so indeed you are correct for legitimate AU accounts. They do supposedly monitor for abuse. I can also see your point of payment history and AAoA. I will not try to press a weak (as in wrong) position by discussing utilization on these. I hate to say I'm wrong...hate more being wrong...which I am on both counts!

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

sarge12 — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 00:31:39 GMT

I do wonder if I may have read a webpage written prior to fico backtracking...will try to better verify my information in the future.

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

Revelate — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 00:51:29 GMT

@sarge12 wrote:
I do wonder if I may have read a webpage written prior to fico backtracking...will try to better verify my information in the future.

No worries dude, this forum is about education and I think I can safely speak for everyone in suggesting all of us have gotten at least one piece of information incorrect. There are indeed references on the Internet which were written prior to the outcry and backtrack... including some FICO marketing releases as nothing is ever truly deleted from the Internet.

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

sarge12 — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 01:38:09 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@sarge12 wrote:
I do wonder if I may have read a webpage written prior to fico backtracking...will try to better verify my information in the future.
No worries dude, this forum is about education and I think I can safely speak for everyone in suggesting all of us have gotten at least one piece of information incorrect. There are indeed references on the Internet which were written prior to the outcry and backtrack... including some FICO marketing releases as nothing is ever truly deleted from the Internet.

Except some peoples e-mails maybe.

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

Thomas_Thumb — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 04:55:07 GMT

@sarge12 wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@sarge12 wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
Uh.

FICO 8 does count AU's, it just has an anti-abuse algorithm so that some AU's on individual credit reports are not counted. FICO 9 isn't really used yet, and if suddenly the stay at home parent suddenly loses their credit score like happened with the initial FICO 8 rollout, we'll hear a similar outcry and a likely predictable similar response (FICO's backtracking).

Deleting AU's needs to be done with more rigor, namely, what are the open dates and payment history on the AU's vs. the rest of your cards? If it's non-trivially longer and is a clean tradeline, I'd never whack an AU: it might get discounted, OTOH it might *not*. I play for credit score maximization, why would I leave points on the table needlessly? If I had a pretty AU I'd keep it and I'd challenge anyone to provide one reasonable explanation why it makes sense to pre-emptively airstrike them in that scenario.

You can always, always delete it later if a late or whatever shows up, and the limits in this question are so irrelevant that you'll lose what, 10 points even if they're maxxed out? /yawn.

If it's an ugly AU, then kick it to the curb... otherwise hold it for now.

ETA: FICO 04 and earlier absolutely do count AU's, and those (EQ 04, TU 04, EX 98) still underwrite 99.99% of the mortgages in the United States and as such in my estimation is way more important than any FICO 8 pull and absurdly more so than any FICO 9 one currently. Optimize for the most expensive purchases in one's life from a credit scoring perspective, if some other credit score discounts them so what?

I agree that AU accounts count 100% in the fico scores used for mortgages, but count less in those most widely used for credit cards. I also see no benefit being removed from an AU that is being handled responsibly. Truth be told though, with the small credit limits on those AU accounts it will not make much difference either way.
Payment history is payment history. Size of limit is irrelevant to that (tne majority) of the FICO calculation. If they're clean and increasing one's AAOA, keep them.

Regarding your other post, where did the idea that AU's were counted less in the algorithm for FICO 8? If they're counted at all it's the full monty as near as it can be determined.

There have been some comments that mortgage lenders will try to discount AU tradelines and do some feng shui hand-waving estimate at score, but that's as far as it goes to my knowledge.
I had read that AU was discounted on a website, since your denial of this my research has revealed that indeed AU accounts were to be left out of reporting on fico08, but later fico backtracked so indeed you are correct for legitimate AU accounts. They do supposedly monitor for abuse. I can also see your point of payment history and AAoA. I will not try to press a weak (as in wrong) position by discussing utilization on these. I hate to say I'm wrong...hate more being wrong...which I am on both counts!

Actually, my AU account does not factor into Fico 08 with regards to all the statements from Fico pasted below. These statements are displayed when clicking on the "?" under various summaries in the score tab.I have some rather excruciating detail from back to back 3B reports taken a few weeks apart in July/August. Refer to below links for some data I presented on how my AU BOA revolver and AMEX charge are treated by the various Fico scoring models.

BTW - The card I am AU on is my wife's card - used exclusively for joint expenses. We pay the bill out of a joint account. Not sure what is required to be considered legitimate but I would think AU on a spouses card would qualify. I've been AU on it for 20 years. The card and payment history does show up on my 3B report and CRA reports.

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/AG-UT-at-0-0-with-2-Cards-Reporting-Fico-Score-Implications/m-p/4706983#M112611

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/Utilization-and-rounding-Single-account-and-aggregate/m-p/4734934#M113487

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

Revelate — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 04:52:14 GMT

TT, based on that someone with just AU accounts would not have a FICO score or am I misreading it?

We know that isn't the case under FICO 8 based on anecdotal reports. Also while I hate to admit it, things posted in the product have been flatly wrong previously and were changed after I pointed them out... I strongly suspect this is one of them unless it changed for FICO 9, and I'd submit that when they made that change for FICO 8 initially there were screams, I can't fathom their being able to go down the same road again.

Re: Credit Spree and What is considered to Many Inquiries

sarge12 — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 05:01:59 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
TT, based on that someone with just AU accounts would not have a FICO score or am I misreading it?

We know that isn't the case under FICO 8 based on anecdotal reports. Also while I hate to admit it, things posted in the product have been flatly wrong previously and were changed after I pointed them out... I strongly suspect this is one of them unless it changed for FICO 9, and I'd submit that when they made that change for FICO 8 initially there were screams, I can't fathom their being able to go down the same road again.

Hope TT credit reporting data is wrongly reported to him, in any case I refuse to unapologise!!!!