topic Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless in General Credit Topics

Feeling Defeated and Clueless

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 01:30:09 GMT

Just a week ago, CK stated my Score was 640 (TU) and 622 (Equifax). I had 3 new Tradelines reported to my credit file since Monday, which dropped my scores to 597 (TU) and 583 (Equifax). OMG! This is such a hard task to complete. When I started this credit rebuilding process, I wanted a 740 Score within 12 months and a Amex card. I was under the impression of having more tradelines reporting with utilization of 1%-10% was the right thing to do in respects to rebuilding/building credit score. Boy was I wrong. Or maybe I should say, I was not 100% correct.

#FEELINGDEFEATED

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 01:36:00 GMT

CK scores are useless. Some companies have been fined millions by the government for calling them useful credit scores.

Ignore those scores forever.

Use CreditScoreCard.com for a free EX FICO08 score.

To maximize your FICO do the following

Pay all cards to $0 before statement posts, EXCEPT...
Make sure ONE card, not more than one card, posts a $5 balance at statement cut (then pay that off to avoid interest)
If you have NO active open installment loans, immediately do the Alliant SSL technique
Age all your accounts for 12 months with perfect payments

Bet your scores go up enough to get you that Amex unless you have a lot of derogatories.

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 02:41:27 GMT

ABCD2199 - Thank you for your feedback. I have a $14 balance on one of my cards and the rest are at a zero balance. I will definitely follow the steps you have outlined, and stick to it for the next 12 months. Thank you...

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 02:44:03 GMT

Forgot to mention, that I have a selflender loan that is excepted to start posting to the CRAs by the end of October. Should I still look into the Alliant SSL method since I have a selflender account already?

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 02:46:30 GMT

You'll see remarkable improvement in a year sticking to that.

Definitely pull your free FICO 08 from the website I posted -- you can pull it monthly for free. I like telling people to pull their first score after all their credit card statements post so that you always get a fresher view every month when you pull a new score, but it doesn't matter. Every month, pull another EX score.

The EX score is a real FICO 08 score. The CK score is a "Vantage Score" which we call FAKO because it doesn't correlate to FICO which creditors/lenders usually use. CK penalizes new accounts way more than FICO usually does.

Once you do get your FICO 08 EX score, post it in this thread so we have an idea where you're really at!

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 02:49:18 GMT

I'm only familiar with SelfLender from some posts here so I'm not sure about it, but if you pay it down to less than 9% of the original balance, it should help for however long it reports for!

I like Alliant SSL because it stays on my reports as open for 5 years. If the Selflender loan is short term, in the last month before it is paid in full, get the Alliant SSL so you always have an installment loan reporting.

Since you have 3 credit cards you're at your "maximum free FICO points" at this point. Let it all age for 12 months, but see if any of your creditors offer CLIs for a soft pull so you can grow those with age. In a year, after your inquiries no longer ding FICO (12 months) you can post your score on these forums and we can give you advice on what to apply for next. There's some anecdotal evidence that 3 credit cards are "free" FICO boosts, but having 5 credit cards (eventually) is what is needed to really maximize FICO long term. Don't apply for credit 12 months before applying for a mortgage if you can avoid it.

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:52:46 GMT

Your average age of accounts dropped by opening so many trade lines in such a short period. Give it 6 months to a year and you will see the improvement you're looking for while also following the advice above, and above all pay on time and keep your cc utilization at ~9%. Dv

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

iced — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:11:23 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
CK scores are useless. Some companies have been fined millions by the government for calling them useful credit scores.

This is the first I've heard about fines regarding CK/Vantage scores. Can you cite some sources so that I may read up on this?

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:19:08 GMT

This is regarding Experian's PLUS score, $3 million fine: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/finance/cutting-through-credit-score-confusion-after-experian-fine/

This is regarding TransUnion's VantageScore, $13.9 million fine as well as Equifax's "Equifax Credit Score", $3.4 million fine: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-orders-transunion-and-equifax-pay-deceiving-consumers-marketing-credit-scores-and-credit-products/

I'm sure there are other fines for giving away useless and deceptive credit scores but I haven't really spent any time looking it over. I have been a big advocate of shaming all the useless credit scores publicly and a lot of people attacked me with boilerplate BS like "some creditors use VantageScore!"

The truth is, VantageScore is used billions of times a year by banks for one purpose: to provide consumers with a useless free "credit" score. That's it. If there are ANY banks who use VantageScore for an actual individual consumer lending decision, even VantageScore isn't advertising who they are.

The only two marketed customers of VantageScore use it strictly for bundling risk models: https://www.vantagescore.com/who-uses-our-model

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

iced — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:50:59 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
This is regarding Experian's PLUS score, $3 million fine: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/finance/cutting-through-credit-score-confusion-after-experian-fine/

This is regarding TransUnion's VantageScore, $13.9 million fine as well as Equifax's "Equifax Credit Score", $3.4 million fine: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-orders-transunion-and-equifax-pay-deceiving-consumers-marketing-credit-scores-and-credit-products/

I'm sure there are other fines for giving away useless and deceptive credit scores but I haven't really spent any time looking it over. I have been a big advocate of shaming all the useless credit scores publicly and a lot of people attacked me with boilerplate BS like "some creditors use VantageScore!"

The truth is, VantageScore is used billions of times a year by banks for one purpose: to provide consumers with a useless free "credit" score. That's it. If there are ANY banks who use VantageScore for an actual individual consumer lending decision, even VantageScore isn't advertising who they are.

The only two marketed customers of VantageScore use it strictly for bundling risk models: https://www.vantagescore.com/who-uses-our-model

Fair Isaac effectively has a monopoly on the credit scoring market, which is a problem in itself. To dismiss any other scoring model that comes along as useless and deceptive will help ensure that no competition can ever come about. At least we have 3 credit bureaus - it's still an oligopoly, but it's a step in the right direction.

I can't fault entities like CK with using another model, particularly for free scores, as FICO charges the bureaus for their scores. I can fault them when they claim things about those scores that, at present, aren't true. Vantage isn't useless, even if few (or no) lenders use them, for no other reason than it can provide a ballpark estimate and introduce an alternative. It took AMD ages to get a foothold against Intel, but they eventually did.

Thanks for the links!

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:57:03 GMT

@iced wrote:
Fair Isaac effectively has a monopoly on the credit scoring market, which is a problem in itself. To dismiss any other scoring model that comes along as useless and deceptive will help ensure that no competition can ever come about. At least we have 3 credit bureaus - it's still an oligopoly, but it's a step in the right direction.

Fair Isaac's FICO score isn't as useful as many of us here want to believe. Many banks have gone to internal measures for creditworthiness which is why one guy with a 740 score gets declined but someone with a 680 gets approved. Also, banks don't just rely on creditworthiness but on "profit versus loss" risk factors -- it might be valuable for certain banks to extend credit to someone risky because that person also may be very profitable before a chargeoff!

The #1 reason that FICO is used isn't their score but their legally prescribed "reasons for decline" responses. Banks and creditors are required by law to provide reasons for a decline -- even if they decline you for internal reasons. They pay FICO for these reasons and use them even if the real reason is something else. The law doesn't bind or require them to give EVERY reason for a decline, just give SOME reason, even if it isn't true!

VantageScores were invented by the CRAs.

As for them being a ballpark, this is pretty weak for me because when my FICO08 was 580, I had a VantageScore saying 700. That same FICO08 is now 685 and my VantageScore there dropped to 622. Totally useless to give me a ball park of anything.

CreditKarma's only benefit is a casual review of credit report changes and even there it isn't 100% accurate, but it's USEFUL. Their credit score and recommendations engine is useless for all purposes.

FICO knows it has more competition than ever in internal calculations by banks who are now spending millions a year developing their own analysis and recursion review of billions of internal data points. But they will continue to hire FICO for those reason codes!

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

pauper66 — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:43:44 GMT

My understanding is that FICO is more a "snapshot" of where you are at any given time. And can be manipulated to a certain extent. My score dropped when I CC balances were high, and I was shopping for a truck at the time. I was quoted 14% when I apllied for a loan. I turned it down. I paid all my balances down to 0-5% on all cards.

Two weeks later, my scores jumped. I had to wait another two weeks for my bank to do another pull, (once every 30 days), but then I qualified for 5%. Needless to say, I got the truck!

And as i understand Vantage scores, it measures more in a trending way....6-12 months performance history. My FAKO scores SUCK!! I would be in at 21% if that's what the banks were using.

And it seems to me, the the scores really only determine the rate you will get and that approval is dependent on the factors in you're report, and not so much on the score. Which explains why a 650 can get approved and a 740 denied.

Right? Wrong? Input welcomed.

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

Anonymous — Wed, 04 Oct 2017 02:05:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
You'll see remarkable improvement in a year sticking to that.

Definitely pull your free FICO 08 from the website I posted -- you can pull it monthly for free. I like telling people to pull their first score after all their credit card statements post so that you always get a fresher view every month when you pull a new score, but it doesn't matter. Every month, pull another EX score.

The EX score is a real FICO 08 score. The CK score is a "Vantage Score" which we call FAKO because it doesn't correlate to FICO which creditors/lenders usually use. CK penalizes new accounts way more than FICO usually does.

Once you do get your FICO 08 EX score, post it in this thread so we have an idea where you're really at!

ABCD2199 - First, I want to thank you for all the feedback and information you have provided. I wanted to wait until after the 1st of this month to post scores. I paid off my student loan a week ago, which helped my score climb back up, along with showing ontime payments and 1% UTI on my open accounts.

Currectly (10-3-17) my scores are:
Experian 652 - Pulled from Credit Check Total, which states it is a FICO 08 Score
Transunion 631 - Pulled from Sync Bank (Amazon Store Card Account), which states it is a FICO 08 Score)
Equifax - 640 FAKO - Pulled from CK VantageScore 3.0

Also, I made sure all card balances are at $0.00, except one which have a statement date of the 4th each month. But that one is at $5 balance as you recommended.

I love the term that some people use here, which is "Gardening". lol If I continue to Garden using the suggestions you provided, do you think I will be able to join the 700 Club in 9 months?

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Oct 2017 20:07:11 GMT

9 months is possible but need a bit more info!

Do you know what your AAoA is this month?

Also, do you have any inquiries due to age over 12 months by then? If so, how many on each report?

Lastly, are you reporting any open installment loans?

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Oct 2017 20:08:36 GMT

Oops, you mentioned you did SelfLender which reports in October at some point. Bet you see a 20 point increase once that reports below 9% left to pay!

I'd say 700 is probably doable if you resist adding new inquiries or new accounts.

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

Anonymous — Wed, 04 Oct 2017 03:28:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
9 months is possible but need a bit more info!

Do you know what your AAoA is this month?

Also, do you have any inquiries due to age over 12 months by then? If so, how many on each report?

Lastly, are you reporting any open installment loans?

According to CK, my AAoA is 1 month
Iquiries that will age 12 months within 9 months from now, and others that should fall off my report within 9 months

TransUnion Inquiry Dates:

Jul 05, 2017

May 30, 2016

Equifax Inquiry Dates:

Jul 29, 2017

Jul 05, 2017

Apr 29, 2017

Mar 22, 2017

Sep 30, 2016

May 30, 2016

Experian Inquiry Dates:

07/05/2017

03/22/2017

05/30/2016

11/22/2015

Re: Feeling Defeated and Clueless

HeavenOhio — Wed, 04 Oct 2017 12:46:51 GMT

Credit Karma doesn't properly show AAoA. Both FICO and VantageScore include closed accounts in the AAoA computation, but Credit Karma's software fails to do that. Any closed accounts showing on your report would count toward your AAoA.