topic Re: 3 Annual HP CLIs without score ding? in General Credit Topics

3 Annual HP CLIs without score ding?

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 01:49:57 GMT

So, 0-1 inquiries are binned together for scoring purposes. If you have zero inquiries on a bureau, you can take 1 inquiry and see no score reduction. For those that are gardening and/or have no need to app any time in the next year, is there any downside to requesting a HP CLI from any of your creditors once per year? Since there are 3 bureaus, depending on who your creditor pulls for a HP CLI request, one in theory could request 3 HP CLIs per year with no adverse impact to score. Thoughts?

Re: 3 Annual HP CLIs without score ding?

Revelate — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 05:10:34 GMT

Are we 100% confident that 0-1 inquiries are binned together on all models of FICO?

Tempted to just spend the $50 and see what's going on as I age over these as my last inquiries on EX:

January 11, 2017	Chase Card
December 27, 2016	First Tech Fcu
December 24, 2016	Chase Card

Re: 3 Annual HP CLIs without score ding?

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 05:19:30 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
Are we 100% confident that 0-1 inquiries are binned together on all models of FICO?

Tempted to just spend the $50 and see what's going on as I age over these as my last inquiries on EX:

January 11, 2017 Chase Card
December 27, 2016 First Tech Fcu
December 24, 2016 Chase Card

CCT $1!

Re: 3 Annual HP CLIs without score ding?

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 06:04:31 GMT

Why would you have to spend $50?

I can't say ALL FICO models, but I'm 99% sure that 0-1 are binned together for FICO 08. I really only track my FICO 08 scores when it comes to profile changes, as I constantly use CCT $1 trials before/after changes to determine score impact. I don't know of another source that's similar to CCT in terms of being able to pull 3B scores for a specific scoring model [other than FICO 08].

Anyone feel there's any downside to going for 3 HP CLIs per year assuming you're going from 0 to 1 inquiry on any given bureau?

I'm of course speaking completely from a score-maximization perspective here. Someone else that doesn't care about these little things could accomplish the same thing in going from 2 to 3 inquiries, as 2-3 are believed to be binned together. I was just sort of posing the best case scenario with respect to scoring.

Re: 3 Annual HP CLIs without score ding?

Revelate — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:08:35 GMT

I'm not a fan of extraneous inquiries.

I'm also not a fan of acquiring limits just for the sake of limits, I don't see the point for virtually anyone after some point... other than financing something truly expensive on my credit cards (why? better options at my credit level now) I will never be above even 5% aggregate so why bother? I'd rather save the inquiry for something I actually need: mortgage, car, even a newly released CC, why hamstring oneself even if you are correct about the binning?

YMMV on both those counts. Will it rationally harm you in the current credit market, no; however, an inquiry is never a positive and at some point there may be a time when you wish you had those inquiries back. $50 would be the approximate cost for 4 1B pulls for me if I so chose to track explicitly on all FICO models known (at least for EX but I suspect inquiry binning holds the same across all bureaus) from 3 to 0. Science, or something.

Re: 3 Annual HP CLIs without score ding?

Revelate — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:10:10 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
Are we 100% confident that 0-1 inquiries are binned together on all models of FICO?

Tempted to just spend the $50 and see what's going on as I age over these as my last inquiries on EX:

January 11, 2017 Chase Card
December 27, 2016 First Tech Fcu
December 24, 2016 Chase Card
CCT $1!

That's just FICO 8 I thought? Fair point though I might be able to do it cheaper with Experian.

Re: 3 Annual HP CLIs without score ding?

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:27:16 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
I'm not a fan of extraneous inquiries.

I'm also not a fan of acquiring limits just for the sake of limits, I don't see the point for virtually anyone after some point... other than financing something truly expensive on my credit cards

I have been struggling to write a function to actually calculate for someone what kind of credit limit they would need to maximize interest accrual based on float. I have it mostly down but it's a complicated equation based on number of total credit card accounts, etc.

For me, I definitely am missing out on interest accrued in my account I hold my payments in. Is it a lot? Heck no, but it's something. If I spend $60,000 a year organically on credit cards, with a statement->statement time frame of 30 days (average) but a statement->due date time frame of 55 days (average) then that's 25 days of interest I am missing out on by trying to manage my aggregate and individual utilization.

Since my CLs are all pretty mediocre ($3300 on C1 no rewards, $2500 on Discover 2% first year, $2000 on Amex groceries/gas) I really have no way to maximize my float interest.

$5000 a month organic spend average with an extra 25 days of float doesn't sound like much, but $62 a year or whatever is still $62 a year -- actually pretty decent.

Since I can't float that much due to low limits, I lose out on $5 a month. Again, not a lot in the grand scheme of things, but sweeping $5 a month into my investment portfolio is a return of $4300 over the next 20 years of expected higher spend in my lifetime.

$4300 is a lot of cash to ignore, even if it's nickels and dimes to get there.

Re: 3 Annual HP CLIs without score ding?

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:00:01 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
I'm not a fan of extraneous inquiries.

I'm also not a fan of acquiring limits just for the sake of limits, I don't see the point for virtually anyone after some point... other than financing something truly expensive on my credit cards (why? better options at my credit level now) I will never be above even 5% aggregate so why bother? I'd rather save the inquiry for something I actually need: mortgage, car, even a newly released CC, why hamstring oneself even if you are correct about the binning?

YMMV on both those counts. Will it rationally harm you in the current credit market, no; however, an inquiry is never a positive and at some point there may be a time when you wish you had those inquiries back. $50 would be the approximate cost for 4 1B pulls for me if I so chose to track explicitly on all FICO models known (at least for EX but I suspect inquiry binning holds the same across all bureaus) from 3 to 0. Science, or something.

You're sort of taking the conversation in a different direction with the old debate about pushing limits higher than necessary, whether or not one should do that, etc. Opinions on that really aren't relevant to the discussion here regarding 3 non-scoreable inquiries (1 per bureau) per year. I do agree completely that if there's a chance on going for a mortgage loan or even a car loan that having less inquiries is always better, but I highly doubt that a single CLI-related (no new acct on report) inquiry in the last 12 months would be enough to change a lending decision. I do appreciate hearing your more conservative opinion though.

Re: 3 Annual HP CLIs without score ding?

HeavenOhio — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:04:10 GMT

I just went from zero to one scorable inquiry on each bureau. I took an immediate small ding on EQ and EX but lost no points on TU.

I wouldn't request HP-CLIs just because I had the inquiries available. I'd have to have a need or desire for the increase beyond doing it just because I can.

Re: 3 Annual HP CLIs without score ding?

Anonymous — Thu, 21 Dec 2017 02:08:02 GMT

@HeavenOhio wrote:
I just went from zero to one scorable inquiry on each bureau. I took an immediate small ding on EQ and EX but lost no points on TU.

Interesting. I wonder if this is something that is somehow profile or bucket specific?

Re: 3 Annual HP CLIs without score ding?

Revelate — Thu, 21 Dec 2017 05:50:03 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@HeavenOhio wrote:
I just went from zero to one scorable inquiry on each bureau. I took an immediate small ding on EQ and EX but lost no points on TU.

Interesting. I wonder if this is something that is somehow profile or bucket specific?

Possibly bureau specific: we had one member here who stated all TU inquiries had a grace period of 30 days; I'm not 100% confident in that based on his dataset but it's worth mentioning.

Re: 3 Annual HP CLIs without score ding?

Revelate — Thu, 21 Dec 2017 06:00:05 GMT

Actually I thought I had remembered this from some of my older TU data:

4. You've recently been looking for credit.

That was on TU FICO 04, with only one inquiry. Ergo, 0-1 aren't binned there, and might not be on other models either given that I had tons of things wrong with my file at that time.

That said I don't see it anywhere on a fairly recent EQ 1B report with only one inquiry; might be that the CFA pushes it off the reason code list or might be that 0-1 are binned.

2. You opened a new credit account relatively recently

That certainly is all over my EQ report hah, but nothing about an inquiry.

Re: 3 Annual HP CLIs without score ding?

Revelate — Fri, 22 Dec 2017 17:16:09 GMT

I forgot about this thread:

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/Inquiry-Research-and-Datapoint-Tracking-Thread/td-p/4983776

That makes me doubt that 0 vs 1 is the same, certainly isn't on all FICO models and the salient point is that it doesn't appear to be for the mortgage models explicitly... which I actually really care about. I'll catch the EX datapoint from 1 to 0 (only costs me incremental $14 for all) on my pretty flatlined file, maybe the EQ one too will see.

Heck that thread makes me wonder about bins at all though I thought I saw that behavior on some of my older data between 3 and 4 inquires on EQ FICO 5.