topic Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0? in General Credit Topics

Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

masscredit — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 19:45:30 GMT

Capital One, Credit Karma and some others provide VantageScore 3.0 scores. Do any lenders actually use these for anything or are they totally for entertainment purposes?

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

Anonymous — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 20:41:54 GMT

Some lenders do for sure. Revelate I believe has had direct experience where a credit granting decision was made to him based in part on a Vantage score (and he received a letter to that effect).

Moreover, it's likely (in my opinion) that many more lenders are testing Vantage behind the scenes to see whether it might be a reliable model for them as indeed it appears to be (reliable at predicting risk, which is what FICO and VS are all about).

So even if a given creditor today is far more likely to pull your FICO score rather than a Vantage Score, that could be very different as time goes on.

Therefore the phrase "totally for entertainment purposes" would not be the best way to describe Vantage, especially if that means "only good for its silly comic value." Vanatge Scores are especially good IMO for people who want a free simple choice to track their improvement over time, e.g. via Credit Karma. My advice to such folks is to once a year grab their FICO 8 scores pulled on the same date via a $1 solution like Credit Check Total, just so they have some sense as to how the two models are differing for their profile.

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

Anonymous — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 21:19:53 GMT

I haven't had a lender pull it yet, but my apartment used it when running my credit for their application. At this moment, I'd prefer everyone pull my vantage scores. THOSE scores are excellent. LOL

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

EW800 — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 22:12:43 GMT

I would sure prefer that lenders would use the Vantage 3.0 model, too! My Vanrage 3.0 scores are about 40-50 points higher than my FICO 8 scores. What is interesting to me is that FICO 9 scores are almost exactly the same as my Vantage 3.0 scores, giving the impression that Vantage 3 and FICO 9 appear to like the same things about my profile, whereas FICO 8 seems less forgiving of my past issues.

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

Anonymous — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 22:15:03 GMT

That's true. I hadn't noticed how similar they seem. I think my 9's are a tad higher than vantage. But vantage is about 75 pts higher than my 8s. I've seen the opposite too though. Some people are much lower on vantage, so idk.

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

AverageJoesCredit — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 00:49:34 GMT

My Vantage TU is actually 55 -60 points lower than my Fico while my vantage EQ is relatively close. Go figure

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

Thomas_Thumb — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 02:01:27 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I haven't had a lender pull it yet, but my apartment used it when running my credit for their application. At this moment, I'd prefer everyone pull my vantage scores. THOSE scores are excellent. LOL

VantageScore is going after the low hanging fruit first. The rental market is a primary target for them and they have made major inroads in that market segment. Some of the success is likely due to credit score use for rental decisions is more recent so there is no holy grail baseline reference to contend with.

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

Dalmus — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 00:29:22 GMT

My Vantage 3.0 scores are 75-100 points LOWER than my Fico 8. And 100-125 points lower than my Fico 9s.

And those Vantage scores don't want to move... I went from 35% util to 22% util over two months, and my TU Vantage score went up 2 points while my TU Fico 8 went up 17.

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

masscredit — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 18:50:14 GMT

My 3.0 scores are 5-10 points lower than my 08 scores.

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 19:21:07 GMT

I must be the odd one. My Fico 8 scores pretty much exactly match, within a point or 3, my Vantage scores every single month.

Re: Do any leaders use Vantage Score 3.0?

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 19:04:10 GMT

Vantage stinks! all my Vantage scores or an average 50 points lower than my Fico scores. vantage doesn't forgive new accounts or Credit inquiries like Fico does. I hope Vantage never catches on it stinks! Most Major credit card companies use Fico not fako.

Re: Do any leaders use Vantage Score 3.0?

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 23:41:56 GMT

My Vantage scores are 10-15 pts higher than my Fico 08's.

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

Anonymous — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 01:51:26 GMT

My Fico 8 are around 610 Vantage 3 around 690. If Vantage 3 is more accurate model than eventually it will be used more.

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

Anonymous — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 17:29:03 GMT

@masscredit wrote:
Capital One, Credit Karma and some others provide VantageScore 3.0 scores. Do any lenders actually use these for anything or are they totally for entertainment purposes?

"Educational Purposes".

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

Anonymous — Mon, 24 Jul 2017 04:10:03 GMT

@Anonymous

@Anonymous wrote:
I must be the odd one. My Fico 8 scores pretty much exactly match, within a point or 3, my Vantage scores every single month.

i realize this is from november 2016 but you are not alone matts175 - my FICO 8 are fairly similar to VS 3 +/- 15ish. but i don't have many accounts.

something i found weird tho is, i have a collection account that shows on TU but not on Equifax, another that shows on equifax but not TU. and both show on experian. seems suspect to me that it works out sort of evenly divided that way with TU and Equifax.

also i discovered that you need to carry a small balance on an account (with FICO 8 anyway) paying my only open credit card off (so $0 owed) lowered my FICO 8 score by 15 points.. :/

it went like this: 7/1 i was notified my score went up 3 points after a month of no change. on 7/2 i was notified that my score went down 15 points. the only change was my cc reported my balance as $0.

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

Anonymous — Mon, 24 Jul 2017 04:14:15 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
If Vantage 3 is more accurate model than eventually it will be used more.

What are you basing your statement of it possibly being a more accurate model on?

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

K-in-Boston — Mon, 24 Jul 2017 20:15:25 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
If Vantage 3 is more accurate model than eventually it will be used more.
What are you basing your statement of it possibly being a more accurate model on?

I think they mean a more accurate predictor of future credit behavior, which is what all credit scores strive to be. Certainly for me, Vantage 3.0 is not at all a more accurate predictor of my risk than FICO 08. Comparing scores on the same days, my TU and EQ Vantage 3.0 scores were 635 and 642 compared to respective FICO 08 scores of 735 and 745. That's a difference of 100 and 103 points, and the difference between qualifying for pretty much any credit product I would want and having a 50/50 shot of getting approved for a seriously subprime card. The Vantage model seems to say that the person with a BK on their reports and recent 90 day lates probably learned their lesson and won't do it again, while the person with decades of ontime payments and no derogs just hasn't defaulted yet, but certainly will. It just makes no sense to me.

Back to the original question, I have never had a single lender use a Vantage score that I am aware of.

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

Thomas_Thumb — Mon, 24 Jul 2017 22:05:19 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
If Vantage 3 is more accurate model than eventually it will be used more.
What are you basing your statement of it possibly being a more accurate model on?
I think they mean a more accurate predictor of future credit behavior, which is what all credit scores strive to be. Certainly for me, Vantage 3.0 is not at all a more accurate predictor of my risk than FICO 08. Comparing scores on the same days, my TU and EQ Vantage 3.0 scores were 635 and 642 compared to respective FICO 08 scores of 735 and 745. That's a difference of 100 and 103 points, and the difference between qualifying for pretty much any credit product I would want and having a 50/50 shot of getting approved for a seriously subprime card. The Vantage model seems to say that the person with a BK on their reports and recent 90 day lates probably learned their lesson and won't do it again, while the person with decades of ontime payments and no derogs just hasn't defaulted yet, but certainly will. It just makes no sense to me.

^ Agree credit model accuracy is benchmarked on likelihood of a profile going 90+ day delinquent on an account. There are quite a few white papers from both Fico and VantageScore comparing their model results to actual data.

There are a few known differences between VS and Fico as there are between the older and newer Fico models. However, I can't say that VS3 is necessarily more lenient on 90 day lates or bankruptcy relative to the plethora of Fico models.

Side note: A model being more accurate is only a small driver relative to model adoption. In use existing models become ingrained as part of a lenders culture as there is a vast historical database available for comparison. Thus, the continued use of older Fico models for mortgages even though newer models might be better predictors. Yes, cost of model use can be a consideration and there is some use of VantageScore by rental agencies/landlords.

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Jul 2017 00:45:52 GMT

To go back to the original question... Carvana does.

Re: Do any leaders use VantageScore 3.0?

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Jul 2017 03:46:46 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
If Vantage 3 is more accurate model than eventually it will be used more.
What are you basing your statement of it possibly being a more accurate model on?

I have no evidence of it being more accurate. When My Vantage 3 scores were 80 points higher than my Fico 8 I wanted it to become used. But now with FICO 8 higher I think it is totally bogus. When I had two charge offs come off my report my Vantage 3 wet down like 30 points. What kind of scoring model would do that.