topic Re: FICO vs Vantage in General Credit Topics

FICO vs Vantage

Tomew2000 — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 19:33:22 GMT

I have a 40 point difference between my TU FICO and Transunion scores. FICO is the higher. From what I read online, FICO is more generally used. Should I worry much about Vantage?

Re: FICO vs Vantage

Anonymous — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 19:40:24 GMT

No.

Re: FICO vs Vantage

pipeguy — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 06:47:17 GMT

@Tomew2000 wrote:
I have a 40 point difference between my TU FICO and Transunion scores. FICO is the higher. From what I read online, FICO is more generally used. Should I worry much about Vantage?

I have almost a hundred point difference between these scoring models, Fico is higher - no worries very few if any use Vantage scores for credit decisions, which would still be true if all my Credit Karma scores were 850 - still would not matter.

Add: CK rates me "Fair" Fico rates me "Very Good"

Re: FICO vs Vantage

jamie123 — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 20:06:18 GMT

@Tomew2000 wrote:
I have a 40 point difference between my TU FICO and Transunion scores. FICO is the higher. From what I read online, FICO is more generally used. Should I worry much about Vantage?

The Vantage score is considered a consumer educational score and is rarely used by lenders to make a credit decision. FICO on the other hand is a real score and the only score that you should worry about.

Re: FICO vs Vantage

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 20:31:11 GMT

I don't get why people keep saying VantageScore is an educational score. It was created to be a competitor to fico. Yes, fico is king, but banks like cap1 and Chase use them in addition to the various ficos, internal scores, and smaller bureaus like LexisNexis. Many of the new fico models that are coming out are because VantageScore 3.0 was superior in some areas. Fico 9 is adopting similar scoring weights for things like medical collections. Since VS can give a score in 3 months for thin files, fico released fico XD to compete. Is it as important as fico? No, but I see changes in my vs quicker than on fico. I've been alerted to a score drop days before fico does so I find it valuable to keep track of along with fico.

Re: FICO vs Vantage

Anonymous — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 22:36:12 GMT

@Brian_Earl_SpilnerYes, fico is king, but banks like cap1 and Chase use them in addition to the various ficos, internal scores, and smaller bureaus like LexisNexis.

But they don't use them in lending decisions. Banks like Capital One and Chase use them because it's super cheap to provide their customers with a monthly "credit score" which is something that most people find value in. 99% of the population is very unlike the small niche of hardcores on this forum and thinks that a score is a score, so the fact that they're being provided with one using the VS 3.0 model doesn't matter to them.

Re: FICO vs Vantage

Thomas_Thumb — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 14:19:18 GMT

VantageScore is a bonafide credit score designed as an alternative to Fico - Not an educational score. We are fortunate the CRAs developed it and continue to refine and market updated models. It has been interesting to see how Fico has moved to adopt certain characteristics that 1st appeared in VantageScore such as:

1) Not counting paid collections against score - (VantageScore 3.0 later rolled out in Fico 9)

2) Use of rental and utility history to expand # scoreable profiles

VantageScore has never tried to mimic Fico (other than rescaling score to the 300 - 850 range). Their intent is to put forth a model or models that can grab marketshare from Fico for revenue growth. The CRAs have other models for strictly educaional scores.

Personally, I am looking forward to seeing what VantageScore 4.0 brings to the table and how it views my profile. There is no inherent difference in risk associated with PIF done before statement cuts relative to after statemet cuts but before due date. Hopefully VantageScore 4.0 can further move things in that direction.

It would be nice to see transactor/revolver scorecards created that lead to the demise of silly games such as AZEO.

Re: FICO vs Vantage

iv — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 21:43:29 GMT

@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

Personally, I am looking forward to seeing what VantageScore 4.0 brings to the table and how it views my profile. There is no inherent difference in risk associated with PIF done before statement cuts relative to after statemet cuts but before due date. Hopefully VantageScore 4.0 can further move things in that direction.

It would be nice to see transactor/revolver scorecards created that lead to the demise of silly games such as AZEO.

Eh... You'd like to think that silly games will go away, but nope. VS4.0 will introduce it's very own set of new games!

For instance, as part of their transaction history analysis, VS4.0 looks at your installment loan payment history (not lates, just the amounts actually paid), and determines if you've been paying exactly what's due, paying less than what "should be" due, or making extra principal payments.

Been making extra payments? Great! You get extra points.
Been making the normal monthly payment only? ...you don't get extra points.
Your lender allowed you to skip a payment? Or to have negative amortization for a while? Or it's a balloon loan? BZZT! Penalty.
You did the pre-paid SSL trick for FICO, and haven't paid the "scheduled payment amount" in a year? ...there's a bit of nightmare fuel for some people around here, depending on exactly how the VS4.0 algorithm works in practice, huh?

You can easily get to the point where the set of silly games required to improve one score model have a negative effect on another, and vice-versa.

Also, don't forget that the increasing focus on T vs R behavior isn't focused on "scoring the previously unscorable" or any of the other well-meaning pablum that you sometimes see in press reports about extending more credit options to those with prior issues... no, T/R analysis is specifically focused on further pruning the risk of default out of the Prime/Super-Prime pools. (Yes, VS4.0 does also have scorecards specifically targeted at no tradelines/dormant reports as well... but T/R isn't a factor in those.)

For reference, if you haven't read these yet:

https://your.vantagescore.com/images/resources/VS4%20Overview%20WP%20-%20FNL.pdf

https://www.vantagescore.com/images/resources/Trended%20Credit%20Data%20WP%20-%20FINAL.pdf

Re: FICO vs Vantage

Thomas_Thumb — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 23:04:31 GMT

Well, I like to see what new models have to offer and how they treat my profile. I realize VantageScore nicks me a few points for too few accounts whereas Fico 8 and Fico 9 do not.I was able to max out VS 2.0 but will never achieve max possible on VS 3.0. Probable get dinged even more points on VS 4.0. We shall see

Re: FICO vs Vantage

SweetCreditObsession — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 23:56:39 GMT

No. Vantage is only useful for tracking tradelines, acct activity and inquiries not for credit approval eligibility.

Re: FICO vs Vantage

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 02:59:30 GMT

TT, is there a tentative data that you know of where VS 4.0 may be put in use?

iv, good points above regarding how some hypothetical changes to VS 4.0 could result in scoring events that run converse to current FICO models. Interesting stuff to think about, for sure.

Re: FICO vs Vantage

iv — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 04:11:59 GMT

Well, they are pushing VS4.0 pretty hard as a replacement for the current "mortgage score" EQ5/TU4/EX2 set:

"VantageScore 4.0 is well suited to the U.S. mortgage market, thanks to its unsurpassed scoring accuracy, consistency across CRCs, and ability to score millions of creditworthy consumers who cannot obtain credit scores when competing models are used. VantageScore is committed to promoting credit scoring competition in the mortgage market and to changing guidelines at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) that process the vast majority of U.S. home mortgages. The GSEs currently require use of an outdated FICO model. As a testament to the advancements made on VantageScore 4.0, the new model offers predictive performance lift across all credit industries, with 2.8% predictive lift overall in loan originations and a 5.4% lift in mortgage originations."

Of course when/if Freddie and Fannie change, (and to what model)... who knows?