topic Re: AX and EX score 22pts different? how, why? in General Credit Topics

AX and EX score 22pts different? how, why?

bourgogne — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 12:43:57 GMT

Hi there, I am on a 7 day ex trial and my daily score pulled today, 11/19, is 845. the AX score from 11/17 is 823 - its hung off an ED. Card reported a zero balance on 11/16, normal as clockwork. I have never compared but I was under the impression AX uses Fico 8, I sure as heck know EX does. how can this be? Thanks

Re: AX and EX score 22pts different? how, why?

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 14:03:30 GMT

I’ve seen people on here post saying that AmEx often lags behind your up to date EX pull, sometimes by as much as a billing cycle. Could be what’s happening here.

Re: AX and EX score 22pts different? how, why?

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 14:10:11 GMT

I am not sure what an AX score is. Is that a score that comes with an Amex card? I'm also not sure what an ED is. Is that an American Express Every Day card?

It sounds like you are comparing the score obtained via the card with a score obtained from a credit monitoring service (CMS) that you are getting through Experian. Experian offers a number of CMS's. What is the name of the CMS you are using?

Scores can differ depending on:

(1) The scoring model used

(2) The bureau on which it was drawn

(3) The date/time on which the report/score was generated

If you have ruled out #1 and #2 (you are sure both use EX FICO 8 Classic) then all that remains is the date/time. Do you have a credit report from each date?

BTW, just because you signed onto Amex on 11/17 and obtained the score does not mean that Amex pulled the score on 11/17. You may have to look at the fine print to determine exactly when the Amex score was pulled.

One possibility consistent with what you said is that on 11/17 the card that you say was paid to zero had not yet materialized inside the EX database. (Often takes 1-5 business days.) But on 11/19 it had appeared. That might account for the score boost.

Re: AX and EX score 22pts different? how, why?

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 14:22:43 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I’ve seen people on here post saying that AmEx often lags behind your up to date EX pull, sometimes by as much as a billing cycle. Could be what’s happening here.

That's for soft pulls for CLI and/or new accounts. The scores used to make credit decisions often lag behind the scores shown in your online account by about a month.

Re: AX and EX score 22pts different? how, why?

bourgogne — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 15:21:29 GMT

ax score - amex fico 8 score

ed = amex everyday card

I don't know about any lag, the times when I have looked at my ax score its matched what experian has had for me exactly. as I said the ax # is from 11/17 and I have scores from experian.com for the past week and everyday is 845. my scores have not been less than 840 for this entire year. the only reason I caught this is because I am getting a new card next month. my scenario when i am getting a new card is azeo, the ed always reports zero anyway and my csr reports 1%. I just spoke to a nice gentleman in the digital support team in india, I sent him both my ax screen snip as well as the splash page from experion.com. he created a ticket, gave me the # and said the back-end team will look into the matter and either they or he will get back to me. I will report back the results. thank you for the responses, have a good week

Re: AX and EX score 22pts different? how, why?

MakingProgress — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 18:27:19 GMT

@bourgogne wrote:
ax score - amex fico 8 score
ed = amex everyday card

I don't know about any lag, the times when I have looked at my ax score its matched what experian has had for me exactly. as I said the ax # is from 11/17 and I have scores from experian.com for the past week and everyday is 845. my scores have not been less than 840 for this entire year. the only reason I caught this is because I am getting a new card next month. my scenario when i am getting a new card is azeo, the ed always reports zero anyway and my csr reports 1%. I just spoke to a nice gentleman in the digital support team in india, I sent him both my ax screen snip as well as the splash page from experion.com. he created a ticket, gave me the # and said the back-end team will look into the matter and either they or he will get back to me. I will report back the results. thank you for the responses, have a good week

First of all there is no such thing as an Amex Fico 8. What you are getting is an EX Fico 8 from Amex. Mine is usually dated a few days before my statement cut date. Look closely at the date listed on the Amex website as to when it was pulled, all so look closely at the date your other EX score was pulled. Where are you getting the other EX Fico 8 score? When was that score pulled, I get my EX from Experiean at freecreditscore.com and they only update every 30 days. My guess it one or both of the scores you are looking at are old.

You might want to do a CCT 7 day trial to get a current score on a 3 EX, EQ, and TU.

Re: AX and EX score 22pts different? how, why?

bourgogne — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 22:21:03 GMT

@MakingProgress wrote:
@bourgogne wrote:
ax score - amex fico 8 score
ed = amex everyday card

I don't know about any lag, the times when I have looked at my ax score its matched what experian has had for me exactly. as I said the ax # is from 11/17 and I have scores from experian.com for the past week and everyday is 845. my scores have not been less than 840 for this entire year. the only reason I caught this is because I am getting a new card next month. my scenario when i am getting a new card is azeo, the ed always reports zero anyway and my csr reports 1%. I just spoke to a nice gentleman in the digital support team in india, I sent him both my ax screen snip as well as the splash page from experion.com. he created a ticket, gave me the # and said the back-end team will look into the matter and either they or he will get back to me. I will report back the results. thank you for the responses, have a good week
First of all there is no such thing as an Amex Fico 8. What you are getting is an EX Fico 8 from Amex. Mine is usually dated a few days before my statement cut date. Look closely at the date listed on the Amex website as to when it was pulled, all so look closely at the date your other EX score was pulled. Where are you getting the other EX Fico 8 score? When was that score pulled, I get my EX from Experiean at freecreditscore.com and they only update every 30 days. My guess it one or both of the scores you are looking at are old.

You might want to do a CCT 7 day trial to get a current score on a 3 EX, EQ, and TU.

^^^ see above, this is an issue between ax and ex, just got a call they are working to resolve it. ax reported me as decreased for the past decade, nothing really surprises me with them. when i say ax fico I know they pull ex, its a literal tag

Re: AX and EX score 22pts different? how, why?

MakingProgress — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 23:24:27 GMT

@bourgogne wrote:
@MakingProgress wrote:
@bourgogne wrote:
ax score - amex fico 8 score
ed = amex everyday card

I don't know about any lag, the times when I have looked at my ax score its matched what experian has had for me exactly. as I said the ax # is from 11/17 and I have scores from experian.com for the past week and everyday is 845. my scores have not been less than 840 for this entire year. the only reason I caught this is because I am getting a new card next month. my scenario when i am getting a new card is azeo, the ed always reports zero anyway and my csr reports 1%. I just spoke to a nice gentleman in the digital support team in india, I sent him both my ax screen snip as well as the splash page from experion.com. he created a ticket, gave me the # and said the back-end team will look into the matter and either they or he will get back to me. I will report back the results. thank you for the responses, have a good week
First of all there is no such thing as an Amex Fico 8. What you are getting is an EX Fico 8 from Amex. Mine is usually dated a few days before my statement cut date. Look closely at the date listed on the Amex website as to when it was pulled, all so look closely at the date your other EX score was pulled. Where are you getting the other EX Fico 8 score? When was that score pulled, I get my EX from Experiean at freecreditscore.com and they only update every 30 days. My guess it one or both of the scores you are looking at are old.

You might want to do a CCT 7 day trial to get a current score on a 3 EX, EQ, and TU.

^^^ see above, this is an issue between ax and ex, just got a call they are working to resolve it. ax reported me as decreased for the past decade, nothing really surprises me with them. when i say ax fico I know they pull ex, its a literal tag

In that case I am suprised Amex didn't close your accounts if they thought you were dead. With 845 or 823 you are Golden anyway when it comes to getting the best terms.

Re: AX and EX score 22pts different? how, why?

bourgogne — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 00:01:08 GMT

In that case I am suprised Amex didn't close your accounts if they thought you were dead. With 845 or 823 you are Golden anyway when it comes to getting the best terms.

I have given up making sense of anything that amex does with me. I have only been with them going on 4 decades, one would think they could sort it out but no. bus cards seem to be fine but consumer cards always swap in the below with the denial. none of this is mine, no clue what is wrong but they always say they are sorry and approve the app. dont care about terms but I do care about accuracy. everyone has different things that push their buttons, I am a stickler for details and amex is not based on results

Re: AX and EX score 22pts different? how, why?

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 21:28:00 GMT

Only 3 factors go into a FICO score:

1 - The scoring model (FICO 8, VS 3.0, etc)

2 - The bureau data (EX, TU, EQ)

3 - The time at which #1 and #2 above were used

In the OPs case here, the scoring model (FICO 8) and the bureau data (EX) are a constant, meaning the only possible variable to consider is the time at which the scores were generated. A variance between the two scores means that without question the data used when 1 score was generated was not the same as the data used when the other score was generated. Simply put, something changed on the OPs CR between when the first score was generated and the second was generated. If I had to guess, I'd say it has to do with reported balances. A 22 point drop is completely possible and expected for example if someone goes from AZEO to AZ (reported).

Re: AX and EX score 22pts different? how, why?

bourgogne — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 00:52:55 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Only 3 factors go into a FICO score:
1 - The scoring model (FICO 8, VS 3.0, etc)
2 - The bureau data (EX, TU, EQ)
3 - The time at which #1 and #2 above were used

In the OPs case here, the scoring model (FICO 8) and the bureau data (EX) are a constant, meaning the only possible variable to consider is the time at which the scores were generated. A variance between the two scores means that without question the data used when 1 score was generated was not the same as the data used when the other score was generated. Simply put, something changed on the OPs CR between when the first score was generated and the second was generated. If I had to guess, I'd say it has to do with reported balances. A 22 point drop is completely possible and expected for example if someone goes from AZEO to AZ (reported).

BBS! how goes it! you are spot on and if I knew that ax had reasons under the date scale if one pages down I would have noticed the entry `Lack of recent bank/national revolving information' I feel like a moron not noticing this and wasting a post on the topic. I can count the # of times that I have hit the ax fico button, amateur mistake...the few times I have used it it matched my ex perfectly. that aside the only score I care about is the ex and ax will either fix it or they won't, I dont really care. they dont pull the data from ex, its sent to them so it would seem to be a glitch in their back-end. I have no ax plans in my future so I am good either way. have a good tday, dont stuff out too much

Re: AX and EX score 22pts different? how, why?

Anonymous — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 02:46:03 GMT

It's not a wasted thread, as you were able to figure out the issue. I consider that a win.

On a stable profile where not much is going on, it's not uncommon for scores pulled at different times (sometimes significantly different) to still match. I'll get a pull at the beginning of the month from creditscorecard.com for example giving me my EX FICO 8 and then it's pulled 3-4 weeks later by Amex and the score will be exactly the same, all because nothing at all changed with my profile over that span of time. I haven't apped in a year and a half and my balances/utilization stay very stable, so it's rare at this point that my scores move at all unless I'm testing something out and actually want them to change

Re: AX and EX score 22pts different? how, why?

bourgogne — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 02:50:10 GMT

right, same here 1.5 years since my last consumer app...biz cards however are a different story lol. take care~