topic Re: Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact in General Credit Topics

Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Nov 2018 00:30:12 GMT

Hello,

At the end of June 2018, I got a credit alert for a new derogatory listing. Earlier in the year, I had paid off all of my credit card/collection debt, except for my car and students loans and my credit score slowly went up so I was shocked to see something come up. This also dropped my credit score about 20 points(I've since been able to raise it back up).

I checked the listing, and did not immediately recognize it. Turns out it was from medical surgery I had back in April 2015. I had never been contacted of it and it never appeared on my credit until June 2018 - it is apparently around $1,700. The day after the e-mail, I immediately sent a debt validation letter to the collection company that also stated I was NOT to receive ANY phone calls and that any and all correspondence should be mailed to me and I included my address.

They received and signed for the letter on July 19th; I never got a response or validation. Late last week, I started to get automated calls from this same collection company stating I need to call them back and gave me a representatives name. I filed a complaint with the CFPB a couple of days ago since I've been receiving automated calls daily. I included the letter in the complaint as well as an image of the signed confirmation receipt.

Are there any other steps I need to take? Are they in violation of any laws here since I explicitly stated I should receive no contact in the debt validation letter? I'm becoming annoyed with these automated calls and I'm not sure I should speak to someone there and I'm not sure if there's another letter I should send to them.

Re: Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact

Medic981 — Sat, 24 Nov 2018 00:41:49 GMT

Welcome to the myFICO forums!

As I understand it, once you have informed a CA to cease and desist it is a $1,000 penalty for each occurrence with a maximum aggregate of $10,000 in fines. Keep a record of each time the CA is attempting to contact you by phone and you should have enough money in fines to pay off the debt and then throw a party afterward.

If I am in error I am sure one of the other myFICOers will correct me.

Re: Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact

RobertEG — Sat, 24 Nov 2018 08:21:39 GMT

If your debt valiadation request was timely, meaning it was sent either prior to the debt collector having sent you dunning notice, or sent within 30 days after dunning notice, it alone produces an automatice cease collection bar under FDCPA 809(b), which bars any further collection actvities until they have first sent validation. Thus, the issue of whether you additionally requested a cease communication bar under FDCPA 805(c) is kinda redundant. You have a double statutory bar.

You thus have clear basis for filing a civil action and collecting damages of $1,000 for violation of FDCPA 809(b) and/or FDCPA 805(c).

You can additionally send a formal complaint to the CFPB, which will cause the matter to be recorded by them and put in their database, and also likely result in the CFPB sending them a request to explain.

However, if you seek statutory damages, you must do that yourself by filing a civil complaint.

As for their lack of response in sending the requested validation, a timely DV imposes a cease collection bar, but does not impose any requirment to respond. They can wait forever, or choose never to respond. They must, however, cease active attempts to collect on the debt until they have first responded.

Re: Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact

RonM21 — Sat, 24 Nov 2018 12:03:30 GMT

Welcome Op! I'll be interested to see how this plays out. Good info from Medic, and Robert knows his stuff when it comes to these things. Sounds like your end is in order and now it falls on them.

Re: Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact

vntrsc — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 00:50:42 GMT

When did the initial communication take place?

Re: Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact

vntrsc — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 03:23:03 GMT

Without an initial communication, the right to validation under the FDCPA has not been triggered.

Re: Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 04:13:44 GMT

Thanks for the responses everyone

If it matters I’m in California. And I never received a letter from them even speaking to this alleged debt. I only found out because of a credit alert and they have also been attempting to call me each day.

Re: Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact

RobertEG — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 07:59:24 GMT

A consumer can send a DV request without having ever receivng dunning notice or having any initial communication with the debt collector.

It is not necessary to wait for an initial communication/dunning notice in order to send a DV request.

See FDCPA 809(b).

Any DV that is sent prior to receipt of a dunning notice is timely, and imposes a cease collection bar.

A DV only becomes untimely, and thus imposes no cease collection bar, if the debt collector has sent a dunning notice, and more than 30 days has then passed since dunning notice.

Re: Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact

vntrsc — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 09:18:42 GMT

I respectfully disagree. Look at the language of 1692g of the FDCPA. There must be an initial communication.

Re: Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact

SBR249 — Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:03:16 GMT

@vntrsc wrote:

I respectfully disagree. Look at the language of 1692g of the FDCPA. There must be an initial communication.

E

Looking at 1692g/809b, I'd argue that debt validation rights can only be triggered within the 30-day period after receipt of the written notice containing the information outlined in the aforementioned section (if the initial communication doesn't already contain the required informaton). Of course, under the FDCPA, a debt collector is legally required to send such a notice within 5 days of initial communication so the timing of the first call or communication is pretty important here.

However, even given all of the above, one can still dispute a debt at any time. It's just that disputing a debt outside the 30-day window would not confer the validation rights under FDCPA such as cessation of debt collections until debt is validated.

Re: Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Nov 2018 17:37:36 GMT

So, do I need to send another debt validation letter since they are only now calling me? As I've said before, this agency has never reached out to me - had I not had those credit alerts, I would've never known about this. And I have lived at the same address for four years, so I would not have missed any piece of mail that would speak to this.

I don't have an issue filing in small claims court myself against them, they are up to 6 as of today - but I don't know if I need to consult a lawyer first.

Re: Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact

RobertEG — Wed, 28 Nov 2018 07:29:38 GMT

After reaserching the case law, I would tend to agree with prior posters who have stated that a DV sent prior to dunning notice does not impose a cease collection bar.

FCRA 609(b) only imposes a timeliness requirement of 30 days if a dunning notice has been sent, but only states that a cease collection bar is imposed by a DV that is sent within a 30-day period after sending of a dunning notice. I found no case law interpretation that supported my prior conclusion that a DV would impose a cease collection bar even if no dunning notice has been sent.

The legislative history of the DV process shows that it was implemented to shut off continued collection activities until the consumer received validation. No initiation of collection activities means that there is not yet a need to give the consumer that reprieve, so the debt collector can wait until they choose to begin active collection, and get one shot at seeking payment of the debt before the consumer can then bar continued collection activities.

Thanks for the clarification!

Re: Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 21:31:28 GMT

Thanks for the research into this, I appreciate it. What do you recommend my next step is? They are only calling - still no mail or any information on what they are collecting. Am I in limbo until I receive mail? Do I re-send the validation letter?

Re: Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact

RobertEG — Sun, 02 Dec 2018 21:36:35 GMT

FCRA 605(a) sets formal requirement to send the required dunning notice within 5 days after the debt collector has initiated communication with the consumer regarding the debt.

If they are calling, then answer the phone, which then completes their call as a communication regarding their collection on the debt, thus imposing their requirement to send dunning notice, and thus your ability to then send a timely DV that will impose a cease collection bar, provided you send the DV within the 30-day period set in the dunning notice.

When answering their call, you need not discuss the validity of the debt or enter into any specific discussion regarding the debt.

Simply inform them that you will await their dunning notice, and terminate the call.

Re: Debt Validation Sent - No response, Collection company calling now despite no contact

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Dec 2018 04:41:53 GMT

Hello again,

At the advice of some, I submitted a complaint to the CFPB for how USCB was attemping collection on an alleged debt with me without any kind of correspondence or verification; in addition to me sending a certified letter. I included the letter I sent to them as well as a photo of the SIGNED returned receipt from their office indicating they received the letter.

UCSB has responded to the complaint and this is a snippet, verbatim, from them:

"The following represents the findings of our investigation into the concerns you raised and our conlusion in terms of the mitigating steps USCB has taken to resolve the complaint. USCB records do not reflect receipt of any letters from the complainant. The letters provided reflect items requested that UCSB is not required to provide. The accounts in question are not being credit reported and a collection hold has been placed on the accounts based upon the dispute UCSB has just received in the CFPB complaint."

I am allowed to provide feedback - but things are not adding up. They state they do not have records that they received a letter, but I do have proof of it(the address I sent it to was taken directly off the credit report item). They seem to indicate that they are NOT required to provide items/proof of the alleged debt, yet they still attempted to call me 11 days in a row. The calls have since stopped becuase of this complaint, but I am not sure what all this adds up to.