topic Re: Opinions needed in General Credit Topics

Opinions needed

Tapdnsr25 — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 19:01:47 GMT

Long story short, after doing an application on Ford's website, a Ford dealership took my info from that and ran it again, through all 3 bureaus. After I told them I did not want any more inquiries and was not going to fill out another credit application (through them).
Isn't that a violation? Since they did it after I told them I was NOT wanting that done?
I'm SO mad I want to sue them over it. And to make it worse, they have THE vehicle I want. (I've searched all over the country). So I want to contact their GM and demand they have the inquiries removed and threaten to sue them, but I realize you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. That being said, I really am willing to take it to court if necessary. As most of us here know, inquiries are a much bigger deal than just a few points. What would you guys do?

Re: Opinions needed

rbentley — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 19:26:56 GMT

@Tapdnsr25 wrote:
Long story short, after doing an application on Ford's website, a Ford dealership took my info from that and ran it again, through all 3 bureaus. After I told them I did not want any more inquiries and was not going to fill out another credit application (through them).
Isn't that a violation? Since they did it after I told them I was NOT wanting that done?
I'm SO mad I want to sue them over it. And to make it worse, they have THE vehicle I want. (I've searched all over the country). So I want to contact their GM and demand they have the inquiries removed and threaten to sue them, but I realize you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. That being said, I really am willing to take it to court if necessary. As most of us here know, inquiries are a much bigger deal than just a few points. What would you guys do?

I am not sure that most of us here do know that. I think "most here" frequently post that they really aren't a big deal, if not excessive. They are just a few points and you get them back in a year, although the evidence of the inquiry does linger for another year. Granted that a creditor can and many do look to the number of your inquires, apart from your score, but an additional inquiry on each bureau should not cause you must grief if your profile is otherwise healthy.

I doubt you are going to find any attorney willing to take your case on a contingency basis. Your damages are all too speculative at this point. Is it really worthwile to spend your own time or thousands of dollars to litigate this, even for the statutory damages? As you said, you are stuck dealing with them since they are the only ones with the vehicle you want. I can understand your anger. I would be upset in your case, as well. It definately wasn't right, but is it something worth taking to Court?

Re: Opinions needed

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 19:31:52 GMT

Just politely request to speak with the General Manager, and explain the situation. Maybe all that needs to happen is have a calm conversation. The GM is in the business of selling cars, if he really wants to sell you that car, he will comply. At least that's the way it would go down in my head.

Re: Opinions needed

Tapdnsr25 — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 19:49:20 GMT

I worry about the inquiries mostly because I plan to try to buy a house this year...preferably soon. And inquiries hurt when it comes to mortgages approvals and rates. A one point difference in APR can equal a pretty big difference over 30 yrs on a $400k mortgage. To me that alone could be worth suing over, but I want to on principle alone. If everyone held these places accountable in such a way, this crap would stop. Short of any such accountability, it will keep on happening forever. It makes me sick.

Re: Opinions needed

FinStar — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 20:00:56 GMT

I'm confused OP. You submitted an application for financing via Ford's website? When you clicked submit were you aware of the (permissible purpose) fineprint presented before clicking submit? Was it 1 inquiry per CRA?

Auto financing inquiries can be explained to your mortgage company or bank, but if you were thinking about that loan process altogether, then I would've held off on applying unless you had cash on hand to pay for the vehicle.

As mentioned above, even if you are out to get blood, I would try a different approach and seeing what could be done in your situation.

Re: Opinions needed

dynamicvb — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 20:07:33 GMT

Its my understanding that inquiries that are for the same type and happen within a 30 day period only count as one in terms of score dings and can be even less with thicker files. Can you quantify the hit your scores took and be sure they came from the inquiries? Like the others, I would just call up the manager and ask them to fix it.

As far as the mortgage, the underwriter will just ask about them and if they resulted in any new credit not reported. If they do, then just write up a letter of explanation for them and that is normally all there is to that portion of the process.

Re: Opinions needed

iced — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 20:29:31 GMT

Take a deep breath and relax.

I think you're placing way too much emphasis on inquiries. As pointed out already, most of us here do not think inquiries are a big deal; an inquiry does not have a dramatic effect on you score. The horror stories you hear are likely from someone who has an excessive number of inquiries (dozens of inquiries in the last 6 months) or their score was so borderline that an inquiry pushed them over the edge and they blamed that rather than the other, and larger, factors that made them borderline to begin with.

What's more, several inquiries for the same thing within a short period of time is weighed as a single inquiry because the algorithms assume you're shopping around. If you already had inquiries for an auto loan, and then got more within a week or two, those extra ones aren't going to affect you.

What WILL have an impact is going through a court battle over this, one that you will mostly likely lose as the inquiries sound legit. Consider the time, the legal fees, and what you really expect to get out of this before going that route. Threatening a lawsuit against them isn't going to intimidate them into removing legit inquiries, so be ready to follow through if you do go that way.

Re: Opinions needed

RobertEG — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 20:42:30 GMT

The FCRA is specifically structured so as not to require your express permission to pull your credit report if one or more of the permissible purposes outlined in FCRA 604 are present.

One such permissible purpose is a consumer-initiated request for credit.

Another is a business transaction initiated by the consumer for which there is a legitimate business purpose to evaluate your credit as part of the transaction.

If you initiated an application for credit, they arguably have permissbile purpose to request and obtain your credit report.

That applies, regardless of whether the web site included advisement of their permissible purpose.

The FCRA does not include any express limit of one inquiry per permissble purpose.

In fact, auto dealer inquiries have a long, long history of permitting multiple inquiries based on a single application for credit.

That history is generally considered beneficial to the consumer in that it permits rate and dealership shopping around for best terms.

The dealer will likely include that established practice in their defense should you bring civil action contesting the legitmacy of their inquiry.

While they will likely assert permissible purpose as support for the inquiry, you might arguably have a basis for asserting that the permissible purpose extending only to dealership A, and not to a subsequent dealership B.

While I personally doubt that such an assertion would persuade a judge, it is not necessarily frivolous. Just a tough nut to crack.

Were there any mitigating cirsumstances, such as when you visited dealership B, for example, did you enter into an agreement to pay by means other than credit, such as cash, that would clearly negate any assumption on their part that you were seeking any financing?

It will, ultimately, be up to a judge. The case law is very deficient in supporting consumers who challenge legitimacy of an inquiry once they have established a permissble purpose as defined by any subsection under FCRA 604.

Personally, I would not recommend civil action. I would pursue request for recoding as a soft inquiry by contacting upper management and REQUESTING good-will removal, rather than a confrontational demand or threat of civil action.

Re: Opinions needed

Tapdnsr25 — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 20:43:38 GMT

I didn't even visit this dealership. We hadn't even discussed a sale price. Via text, a rep sent me a link to an application and I informed him that I would not apply through them (and why) because I already had through Ford. He then got my info from Ford and ran it. Only reason he did, was to fish it to banks to make more money via points on the APR. But I was going to lease so that was pointless.

Re: Opinions needed

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 20:46:31 GMT

So this person reached out to a Ford dealership and obtained your social security number and other information so that he could run your credit? Sounds pretty suspect to me.

Re: Opinions needed

CreditInspired — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 21:22:29 GMT

@Tapdnsr25 wrote:
Long story short, after doing an application on Ford's website, a Ford dealership took my info from that and ran it again, through all 3 bureaus. After I told them I did not want any more inquiries and was not going to fill out another credit application (through them).
Isn't that a violation? Since they did it after I told them I was NOT wanting that done?
I'm SO mad I want to sue them over it. And to make it worse, they have THE vehicle I want. (I've searched all over the country). So I want to contact their GM and demand they have the inquiries removed and threaten to sue them, but I realize you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. That being said, I really am willing to take it to court if necessary. As most of us here know, inquiries are a much bigger deal than just a few points. What would you guys do?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't all of these be lumped into one inquiry if they're within 30 days. I think you'll be okay on recon for any CC if inqs. are the only issue.

Re: Opinions needed

DIYcredit — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 09:19:51 GMT

I think it works like this If the inquiry is from auto,mortgage or student loan they will not not count for the first 30 days.Latest versions like Fico 8 or 9 if the auto,mortgage or student loans have multiple inquiries that are older than 30 days and are no older than 45 days apart they will counts as one inquiry.Older Fico versions are 14 days apart.One inquiry should count about 3-5 points.Small Potatoes...

Re: Opinions needed

Appleman — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 14:37:14 GMT

For 2019, what is the take home with this example?

What was the original reason for filling out an application with Ford?

At this point, I would recommend escalating to Ford. Spend some time on the phone asking them who has access to your application and information? Ask them if Ford allows dealers to use the information you provided them to run their own credit inquiry?

Contact your state's, Attorney General. They can give you information on if you were wronged.

Contact the Better Business Bureau and open a complaint.

I agree with you that this seems wrong and there are ways to assert yourself without jumping to hiring an attorney.

I think that trying to fight this issue on principle sounds expensive and frustrating.

Blow up their social media. Depending on the market, some dealers have been very responsive.

Given your situation would you advise people not to apply for credit via Ford's website (or any car manufacturer)?

Good luck!

Re: Opinions needed

Revelate — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 16:20:09 GMT

This is an utter non-issue.

We're talking mortgage, auto inquiries taken with a 14-day period are scored as one inquiry on EX FICO 2 which is the most rigid on this metric for the mortgage trifecta of scores.

Any penalty to your mortgage scores was incurred with the inquiry submitted through FMC directly, and the dealer one (or multiple) are absolutely irrelevant (assuming on the same bureau). DIYcredit is also correct to point out the 30 day grace period but we're talking mortgage app sometime in the future rather than today.

There's literally no basis to be angry let alone legal procedings: just go pick up your sweet ride and be done with it honestly, even thank them. 99.9% of mortgage lenders won't even make you explain any inquiries that aren't within the last 4 months anyway, and yes indeed inquiries are a handful of points unless you have a slew of them at least when talking FICO 8 and below, and nobody, literally no one, is underwriting a mortgage on FICO 9 where that might not be the case.

Life's too short, care about things that are important: this isn't .

Re: Opinions needed

SOGGIE — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 16:44:15 GMT

OP I agree with both your position and your intended method of resolve. IMO, and contrary to the opinion of others, the point is not how the DEALERSHIP'S inquiries categorically group or age, but rather THE FACT THAT THE DEALERSHIP'S INQUIRIES WERE SPECIFICALLY NOT PERMITTED BY YOU. Good luck!

Re: Opinions needed

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 17:57:57 GMT

@SOGGIE wrote:
OP I agree with both your position and your intended method of resolve. IMO, and contrary to the opinion of others, the point is not how the DEALERSHIP'S inquiries categorically group or age, but rather THE FACT THAT THE DEALERSHIP'S INQUIRIES WERE SPECIFICALLY NOT PERMITTED BY YOU. Good luck!

This is false. There is no law that I am aware of that puts a limit on how many pulls can be done when you seek credit. Since these literally aren’t any difference in scoring and are just viewed as regular every day shopping for the best rates, there are no damages.

Re: Opinions needed

SOGGIE — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 21:26:41 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@SOGGIE wrote:
OP I agree with both your position and your intended method of resolve. IMO, and contrary to the opinion of others, the point is not how the DEALERSHIP'S inquiries categorically group or age, but rather THE FACT THAT THE DEALERSHIP'S INQUIRIES WERE SPECIFICALLY NOT PERMITTED BY YOU. Good luck!
This is false. There is no law that I am aware of that puts a limit on how many pulls can be done when you seek credit. Since these literally aren’t any difference in scoring and are just viewed as regular every day shopping for the best rates, there are no damages.

False? SMH Saeren! A person who carefully reads OP's original and subsequent posts would understand that 2 separate business entities accessed OP's consumer credit profile: (1) Ford Financial Services--with OP's consent and (2) a Ford dealership--without OP's consent.

The dealership employee was specifically instructed by OP not to access OP's consumer credit profile. Therefore, the dealership DID NOT have the 'Permissible Use' required by law. Because the dealership employee disregarded OP's request, OP incurred 3 unauthorized HP inquiries.

OP was seeking an answer to his/her question. "... Isn't that a violation? Since they did it after I told them I was NOT wanting that done?" OP did not question allowable number of inquiry pulls by the dealership, but rather if whether the dealership was in violation for unauthorized access to their credit file. Yet your response was?

I provided OP my opinion. Now I provide you the same because it appears that you neither read and/or understood the matter. Nor (IMO) did you contribute with a response that directly relates to the issue as presented by OP. ~Peace

FYI, there are many consumers who have the same grievance as OP with regard to dealership salesmen acquiring unauthorized credit reports--resulting in HP inquiry dings.

Re: Opinions needed

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 23:56:33 GMT

@SOGGIE wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@SOGGIE wrote:
OP I agree with both your position and your intended method of resolve. IMO, and contrary to the opinion of others, the point is not how the DEALERSHIP'S inquiries categorically group or age, but rather THE FACT THAT THE DEALERSHIP'S INQUIRIES WERE SPECIFICALLY NOT PERMITTED BY YOU. Good luck!
This is false. There is no law that I am aware of that puts a limit on how many pulls can be done when you seek credit. Since these literally aren’t any difference in scoring and are just viewed as regular every day shopping for the best rates, there are no damages.
False? SMH Saeren! A person who carefully reads OP's original and subsequent posts would understand that 2 separate business entities accessed OP's consumer credit profile: (1) Ford Financial Services--with OP's consent and (2) a Ford dealership--without OP's consent.

The dealership employee was specifically instructed by OP not to access OP's consumer credit profile. Therefore, the dealership DID NOT have the 'Permissible Use' required by law. Because the dealership employee disregarded OP's request, OP incurred 3 unauthorized HP inquiries.

OP was seeking an answer to his/her question. "... Isn't that a violation? Since they did it after I told them I was NOT wanting that done?" OP did not question allowable number of inquiry pulls by the dealership, but rather if whether the dealership was in violation for unauthorized access to their credit file. Yet your response was?

I provided OP my opinion. Now I provide you the same because it appears that you neither read and/or understood the matter. Nor (IMO) did you contribute with a response that directly relates to the issue as presented by OP. ~Peace

FYI, there are many consumers who have the same grievance as OP with regard to dealership salesmen acquiring unauthorized credit reports--resulting in HP inquiry dings.

I understood it completely. If you go to a dealership to seek credit, you are authorizing them to conduct pulls on your credit. If you want to secure financing and control how the HPs come, get your financing before you go shopping.

Re: Opinions needed

SOGGIE — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 00:45:22 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@SOGGIE wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@SOGGIE wrote:
OP I agree with both your position and your intended method of resolve. IMO, and contrary to the opinion of others, the point is not how the DEALERSHIP'S inquiries categorically group or age, but rather THE FACT THAT THE DEALERSHIP'S INQUIRIES WERE SPECIFICALLY NOT PERMITTED BY YOU. Good luck!
This is false. There is no law that I am aware of that puts a limit on how many pulls can be done when you seek credit. Since these literally aren’t any difference in scoring and are just viewed as regular every day shopping for the best rates, there are no damages.
False? SMH Saeren! A person who carefully reads OP's original and subsequent posts would understand that 2 separate business entities accessed OP's consumer credit profile: (1) Ford Financial Services--with OP's consent and (2) a Ford dealership--without OP's consent.

The dealership employee was specifically instructed by OP not to access OP's consumer credit profile. Therefore, the dealership DID NOT have the 'Permissible Use' required by law. Because the dealership employee disregarded OP's request, OP incurred 3 unauthorized HP inquiries.

OP was seeking an answer to his/her question. "... Isn't that a violation? Since they did it after I told them I was NOT wanting that done?" OP did not question allowable number of inquiry pulls by the dealership, but rather if whether the dealership was in violation for unauthorized access to their credit file. Yet your response was?

I provided OP my opinion. Now I provide you the same because it appears that you neither read and/or understood the matter. Nor (IMO) did you contribute with a response that directly relates to the issue as presented by OP. ~Peace

FYI, there are many consumers who have the same grievance as OP with regard to dealership salesmen acquiring unauthorized credit reports--resulting in HP inquiry dings.
I understood it completely. If you go to a dealership to seek credit, you are authorizing them to conduct pulls on your credit. If you want to secure financing and control how the HPs come, get your financing before you go shopping.

@Anonymous

1) Yet you appear to still NOT understand it completely.

2) OP DID NOT go to a dealership to seek credit.

3) OP DID NOT authorize the dealership to conduct credit pulls.

4) OP did secure financing prior to shopping in effort to control (minimize) HP credit inquiries.

5) Bottom Line....the dealership did not have required authorization to access OP's credit file. They are in violation.

6) OP (like many members) posted a question--seeking helpful responses from experienced or knowledgeable members on their subject. Your responses to OP's question are of no value whatsoever..

Re: Opinions needed

SOGGIE — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 00:53:58 GMT

@Tapdnsr25 wrote:
Long story short, after doing an application on Ford's website, a Ford dealership took my info from that and ran it again, through all 3 bureaus. After I told them I did not want any more inquiries and was not going to fill out another credit application (through them).
Isn't that a violation? Since they did it after I told them I was NOT wanting that done?
I'm SO mad I want to sue them over it. And to make it worse, they have THE vehicle I want. (I've searched all over the country). So I want to contact their GM and demand they have the inquiries removed and threaten to sue them, but I realize you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. That being said, I really am willing to take it to court if necessary. As most of us here know, inquiries are a much bigger deal than just a few points. What would you guys do?

One other suggestion I might add is to use the Forum Search Query using the keywords, 'dealership inquiry.' There you may be able to reach out to other members with this similar experience, who can provide you with info on how their issue was resolved. Good luck!