topic Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI??? in General Credit Topics

What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 21:43:11 GMT

Call this a rant a complaint, whatever.

I can not wrap my brain on idea of hardpulling someones credit when they can soft pull at any time and literally have access to the EXACT same info I can see everything I need to and more on Credit Karma and my Free Experian Report. Payment History, Derogs, AAoA, Inqs, Total Accounts, Util. And even down to the nitty gritty your limits on your cards your 24 month payment history. Everything. It just makes no sense to me when you have a customer whos with you already obviously if youre requesting a CLI and they have perfect payment history and their reports that you CAN see from a SP at any time that you "Require" a hard pull. I understand the underwriters dont make the rule. Maybe im totally wrong and someone can school me. Amex and Sync have it figured out!

POI I get and think they should be more stringent on im sure alot of others will disagree but to be able to just put a number on on a screen and they take your word for it is nonsense

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

rbentley — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 22:05:26 GMT

Other lenders never see your soft pulls. Only you see those. They have no effect of your credit score. A HP is a signal to all lenders that you have requested credit and can be used to measure credit seeking behavor. AmEx does do a HP for your first account with them. They do SP on subsequent cards evidently viewing them as just extensions of an already established credit relationship. It would indeed be nice if everyone had that approach, but most do not.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 22:10:10 GMT

That’s the only justifiable thing I could think of, if no one is dinged than people would just do 100 CC applications a day without any recourse. But I feel it’s different for a CLI obviously what I feel doesn’t matter just wondering if I’m off the wall.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

FinStar — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 22:12:42 GMT

Simple. Because each bank has their own internal UW policies and they decide how to report such permissible information.

While SYNCB, AmEx, Capital One, etc. may SP to CLI, others like Chase, WF, Barclays, and plenty of CUs tend to HP.

It may not make sense to you or perceive it as obsessive; however, a CLI is considered a credit origination (or modification thereof) in the lenders' eyes. How each lender treats those requests is up to them, whether HP or SP.

By the same token, a variety of lenders benefit from such reporting aspects to assess and/or identify potential risks, mitigate losses, fraud instances, etc. So, items like excessive credit seeking behavior (new accounts and/or reported CLI requests) assist with identifying some flags for some institutions.

This topic tends to come up frequently, but it is what it is OP.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

Anonymous — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 09:36:36 GMT

I actually think it would be a great thing of all self-initiated CLIs were HPs. I know that goes against the grain in the community here where SP CLI requests happen almost as regularly as a trip to the restroom, something I myself am guilty of. If all self-initiated CLIs resulted in a HP, you'd see far less CLI requests and/or people greatly limiting their CLI requests to only the card/cards that they really want/need them on. It would be a level playing field if all CCCs did this. Lender-initiated CLIs based on heavy usage of course would not require a HP, as that's not a [customer] request for additional credit.

I take no issue with CCCs hitting someone with a HP if they are requesting additional credit, which is what a CLI is. I think many of us have gotten a bit greedy with all of the creditors out there that hand out CLIs like candy with simple SPs, so when we see a HP required it almost seems "wrong" when in fact it in most cases is really the "right" thing to do when looking at the subject through a neutral lens.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

_NERD — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 10:14:26 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I actually think it would be a great thing of all self-initiated CLIs were HPs.

When I see those boxing gloves pop up on my screen while scrolling on my phone, I get excited and start moving left & right like I’m dodging jabs...Ooops i mean I agree with BBS’s opening statement above. I feel CLI requests should come with HPs, but only if approved. I know my CLI request behavior would change if I had to take a ding every time I smash the luv button or call UW.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

CreditInspired — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 12:55:01 GMT

I also agree with @BBS. If CLIs were a HP, I know I would never ask for one.

My TCL is truly way more than I need. However, I am going to lay 10% of the blame for my GREED on the forum. Before I joined 2.5 years ago, I didn’t even know you could request a CLI, which we all know that the majority who know nothing of forums like this is as clueless as I was. I had one 9yo Platinum that started at $1K and received auto CLIs to the total of $4K in 2016.

Of course, the other 90% blame is definitely all me. I got addicted to everything. The more I read, the more exciting it got, and the more I wanted to push the button. I just loved those approvals.

Now, I’m not regretting any of this; but last month, I did choose to go to the garden for 2 years in order to REIN MYSELF IN. I don’t need any more credit! I’m just happy I didn’t let the credit go to my head and start spending more than I could afford to pay off.

And with this 2-yr imposed hiatus, I know the CLs I have are there if I need them.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

kdm31091 — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 13:38:28 GMT

It really doesn't bother me because realistically, most of us ask for CLIs we don't really need just because it's a SP. Were they always a HP I would have far smaller (but still perfectly useful) limits. So I wouldn't blame the banks if the policy was always HP because you are seeking credit; a HP is fair.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

redpat — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 18:23:05 GMT

I took HPs for Chase CLIs and I didn't have a problem with that at all.

There is really no reason for them to do a HP because CCC are always SPing your credit monthly as part of their monitoring. That is why some have AAs done against them.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 05:52:09 GMT

@redpat wrote:

There is really no reason for them to do a HP because CCC are always SPing your credit monthly as part of their monitoring. That is why some have AAs done against them.

The HP isn't done necessarily for the additional pull when they're already getting monthly SPs, it's simply because they want to leave a mark on your CR stating that you were requesting additional credit. I'm sure all CCCs would like to see these marks, as they'd rather know (than not know) if and with whom they are requesting additional credit.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

tparks5961 — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 06:02:48 GMT

Unfortuantely CC companies are in business to make money.. Any company that hard pulls your credit can indirectly affect any new credit that you may be able to get.. (Too many recent inquiries) I'm sure sometimes people are declined credit with a new CC company which will keep you using the same card the you requested the CLI.

Just a thought.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

MakingProgress — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 07:54:31 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I actually think it would be a great thing of all self-initiated CLIs were HPs. I know that goes against the grain in the community here where SP CLI requests happen almost as regularly as a trip to the restroom, something I myself am guilty of. If all self-initiated CLIs resulted in a HP, you'd see far less CLI requests and/or people greatly limiting their CLI requests to only the card/cards that they really want/need them on. It would be a level playing field if all CCCs did this. Lender-initiated CLIs based on heavy usage of course would not require a HP, as that's not a [customer] request for additional credit.

I take no issue with CCCs hitting someone with a HP if they are requesting additional credit, which is what a CLI is. I think many of us have gotten a bit greedy with all of the creditors out there that hand out CLIs like candy with simple SPs, so when we see a HP required it almost seems "wrong" when in fact it in most cases is really the "right" thing to do when looking at the subject through a neutral lens.

Agreed. I don't need the $25k I have available on Amex, but I took advantage of a 3X SP CLI at 61 days,and another $7k SP CLI 180 days after that. $25k is my self imposed limit for requesting a CLI.

It's crazy to me that Amex will give a 3X cli at 61 days.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 10:00:30 GMT

HP CLIs are almost invariably higher than SP CLIs. I personally don’t mind or I wouldn’t be with NFCU.

As others have said, it leaves a mark that lets other creditors know that you’re actively seeking more credit which is a risk factor they should know about. It wouldn’t surprise me to see all CLIs turn into HPs industry wide and I would support the move. If Discover did HP CLIs, we probably wouldn’t see people with high incomes getting denied or tossed $200-$500.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

redpat — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 10:46:44 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@redpat wrote:

There is really no reason for them to do a HP because CCC are always SPing your credit monthly as part of their monitoring. That is why some have AAs done against them.
The HP isn't done necessarily for the additional pull when they're already getting monthly SPs, it's simply because they want to leave a mark on your CR stating that you were requesting additional credit. I'm sure all CCCs would like to see these marks, as they'd rather know (than not know) if and with whom they are requesting additional credit.

They know when they see your available credit on the SP and age of accounts. They also know more than you think and I don’t think they need a popcorn trail of HPs to figure things out.

Amex is giving individuals new cards w/o HPs based on the data they have. I love Amex, two business cards were freebies but the new personal cards do show up on your reports even though there was no HP.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 16:23:56 GMT

@redpat wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@redpat wrote:

There is really no reason for them to do a HP because CCC are always SPing your credit monthly as part of their monitoring. That is why some have AAs done against them.
The HP isn't done necessarily for the additional pull when they're already getting monthly SPs, it's simply because they want to leave a mark on your CR stating that you were requesting additional credit. I'm sure all CCCs would like to see these marks, as they'd rather know (than not know) if and with whom they are requesting additional credit.
They know when they see your available credit on the SP and age of accounts. They also know more than you think and I don’t think they need a popcorn trail of HPs to figure things out.

Amex is giving individuals new cards w/o HPs based on the data they have. I love Amex, two business cards were freebies but the new personal cards do show up on your reports even though there was no HP.

I wouldn’t really use Amex as an example since Amex is like the “big brother” of credit card companies.

The point is that hard pulls ensure other lenders see the request no matter if it was approved or not. If it’s denied and it’s a SP, it’s not visible to anyone except you. SP CLIs look like auto CLIs to the credit card companies doing their reviews without the HP on the file.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

Revelate — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 16:37:26 GMT

Arguably from an algorithm design perspective, it's the lenders that are doing SP approvals for credit extentions that are doing it wrong.

We may move to a time where either everyone is doing SP's or everyone goes back to HP's; probably really depends on how the lenders feel about this but it's probably a non-issue for the big lenders - I would ABSOLUTELY be comparing month over month pulls if I got them, and that includes some simple math to see if not only balances changed, but also if limits changed in addition to whether the actual score changed.

Smaller lenders may not do this, but the large lenders with more sophisticated analysis are looking at a whole lot more than that in the data stream.

At some point maybe I become the outlier, I haven't applied for a CLI since 2013 with 2x Amex and 1 x failed BOFA.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

MakingProgress — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 19:31:54 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
HP CLIs are almost invariably higher than SP CLIs. I personally don’t mind or I wouldn’t be with NFCU.

As others have said, it leaves a mark that lets other creditors know that you’re actively seeking more credit which is a risk factor they should know about. It wouldn’t surprise me to see all CLIs turn into HPs industry wide and I would support the move. If Discover did HP CLIs, we probably wouldn’t see people with high incomes getting denied or tossed $200-$500.

Income is not shown anywhere on a CR. HP or Sp doesn't make a difference. Income is self reported unless a creditor requests verification.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 23:53:32 GMT

@MakingProgress wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
HP CLIs are almost invariably higher than SP CLIs. I personally don’t mind or I wouldn’t be with NFCU.

As others have said, it leaves a mark that lets other creditors know that you’re actively seeking more credit which is a risk factor they should know about. It wouldn’t surprise me to see all CLIs turn into HPs industry wide and I would support the move. If Discover did HP CLIs, we probably wouldn’t see people with high incomes getting denied or tossed $200-$500.
Income is not shown anywhere on a CR. HP or Sp doesn't make a difference. Income is self reported unless a creditor requests verification.

They can get a picture of your liquid cash based on your charges and payments.

That wasnt my point though. My point was that HP CLIs tend to be higher than SP ones.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 02:15:29 GMT

@redpat wrote:
They know when they see your available credit on the SP and age of accounts. They also know more than you think and I don’t think they need a popcorn trail of HPs to figure things out.

They can see your CLIs, but without a HP they don't know if the CLI was a request for credit or if it was an auto-CLI. That's really the whole point IMO and it can't be determined simply from a SP.

Re: What is the obsession with HP'ing for a CLI???

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 02:21:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
My point was that HP CLIs tend to be higher than SP ones.

I don't believe that to always be the case. My two highest SP CLIs were $27k and $20k increases on my Lowe's and Amex cards. I've also received 2 CLIs on my Citi card; One was a HP and one a SP. The HP CLI resulted in a $5k gain, where the SP CLI resulted in a $7k gain.