topic Re: Dealership ran credit without permission in General Credit Topics

Dealership ran credit without permission

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 19:17:18 GMT

So bear with me as I explain....

Ive been in the market to buy a new car. I ordered a Jeep in Dec and it arrived a few weeks ago at the dealer. I started my quest for finding a good bank and rate. I applied to about 10-15 banks. Why so many? Because I was getting rates as high as 8%. Eventually I found 3.29% from a credit union.

So due to new cards and new auto loan and also an auto loan that was opened by Navy Fed CU that I didnt SIGN and ACCEPT because I chose another CU...I decided I was going to wait and just "garden" (is that the term?)

I didnt think about freezing my reports. Dummy me.

Anyway, so I get to the dealership with my check from the bank and all. The sales guy tells me they need some info for the paperwork and records and hands me a credit app but says my credit wont be ran. Fair enough. I fill in the name, address, social and thats all. No income or anything like that. And I ABSOLUTELY did not sign the bottom or date because I was NOT giving them permission to run credit. I already had my loan. No need.

So I purchase vehicle last Thursday. Come sunday, I get an alert that the dealership ran my report! I called them and finance guy tells me I signed and gave them permission. I told him I certainly did not and ask for the document. Sure enough, someone forged my signature. Very similar to mine but definitely not mine. And theres a CLEAR difference in the pen used above for the information I wrote in and the pen used at the bottom for the signature. I know that means nothing but I KNOW I didnt sign. Plus, why would I write information in with one pen then switch to anothe for signing?

So I put them on blast real question and reply to the finance manager and CC the GM, sales guy and customer satisfaction rep. I dont hear back from anyone. Early Monday morning I get a text message from sales guy with a photo of 3 letters to TransUnion, Equifax and Experian, saying the 3 letters would be mailed out ASAP.

The letter is shady as well because it says something along the lines of "we ran the report but Gary whats the inquiries removed because he is not ready to buy..."

Um...I DID buy. I bought LAST thursday. So theyre lying to the credit bureaus as well. I put a freeze on my reports and Im going to start a dispute so when they get the letters they know exactly what theyre about.

I dont even know what to say or think. At first I thought "you know, maybe Im crazy, maybe I DID sign the document and forgot" but that makes no sense to me, why would I sign if I already had my financing. PLUS...their shady letter to the bureaus lying to them lets me know theyre lying to me too.

I dont have time, patience or even money for a lawyer. I just want that crap taking off my report. I will shred them apart on their FB and Google and wherever else I can after.

What do you guys think/suggest?

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 19:41:07 GMT

Dispute with the banks. I did and it did take a little time (four months?), but I had them all removed. My dealer showed me different bank rates and one had a little bit higher rate, BUT it offered money off the top. I told my dealer, only verify with this one. He didn't and my CR looked ugly with a lot of HP. Some on here say HP all done at the same time for something like an auto loan do not lower your score more than one HP. All I know is that mine went down a lot and came back a lot as the HP went away.

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 19:53:10 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Dispute with the banks. I did and it did take a little time (four months?), but I had them all removed. My dealer showed me different bank rates and one had a little bit higher rate, BUT it offered money off the top. I told my dealer, only verify with this one. He didn't and my CR looked ugly with a lot of HP. Some on here say HP all done at the same time for something like an auto loan do not lower your score more than one HP. All I know is that mine went down a lot and came back a lot as the HP went away.

Thing is, I DIDNT want my credit pulled with them. I had already shopped my loan. I DIDNT give them permission. They forged my signature.

I didnt even get offered any bank rates from them. Because I had already paid them and signed and driven off into the sunset. This was 3-4 days AFTER THE FACT.

And the hard pull things....it might not affect your credit score as multi HPs, but when a creditor checks, they still see all of those HPs and it looks negative. Im traveling soon and I applied for a couple of travel cards and both denied solely on this fact "too many auto loan inquiries"

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

RobertEG — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 20:58:12 GMT

Below is a full copy of the FTC staff opinion letter regarding when an auto dealership obtains permissible purpose.

While it does not have the effect of law, it is nonetheless an excellent overview of how to argue an inquiry made by an auto dealer when you feel that they lack permissible purpose.

Note particularly that the underlying issue is not whether you gave signed permission, it is whether they had permissible purpose under FCRA 604. While they appararently did some shady things that might win the day in court, the initial issue may be whether or not the transaction had a permissible purpose. Was your check, for example, a personal check or was it a cashiers check from the lendor?

_________________________________

FTC staff opinion advisory letter, dated February 11, 1998 :

"1. Section 604(a)(3)(F) permits CRAs to provide consumer reports to any party who has a "legitimate business need for the information in connection with a business transaction that is initiated by the consumer." You ask whether this provision allows a dealer to obtain a consumer report on a person who "comes to an automobile dealership and requests information" from a salesman about one or more automobiles. In our view it does not, because a request for general information about products and prices offered does not involve a business transaction initiated by the consumer.

"More generally, you ask "when is the beginning of a business transaction" initiated by the consumer? In responding to this question, it is important to note that Section 604(a)(3)(F) limits this "business need" permissible purpose to transactions (i) that are "initiated" by the consumer and (ii) where the seller has a "legitimate business need" for the information. The staff's view is that an automobile dealer may obtain a report only in those circumstances in which the consumer clearly understands that he or she is initiating the purchase or lease of a vehicle and the seller has a legitimate business need for the consumer report information in order to complete the transaction.

"For example, a consumer who asks a dealer questions about prices and financing is not necessarily indicating an intent to purchase or lease a vehicle from that particular dealer. Nor does the dealer have a "legitimate" business need for a consumer report in this situation. The consumer may simply be comparison shopping. In such a situation, the dealer must obtain written permission from the consumer before obtaining a consumer report. If the dealer would like to see a consumer's credit report before answering general questions about the availability of financing, this must be explained to the consumer and written permission must be obtained. In the same way, a request to "test drive" a vehicle does not indicate an intent to initiate the purchase or lease of the vehicle. Accordingly, if a consumer asks to test drive a vehicle, the dealer must obtain written permission from the consumer before obtaining a report.

"Only in those circumstances where it is clear both to the consumer and to the dealer that the consumer is actually initiating the purchase or lease of a specific vehicle and, in addition, the dealer has a legitimate business need for consumer report information may the dealer obtain a report without written permission. In this regard, we note that obtaining information for negotiation purposes does not constitute a "legitimate" business need. The dealer must have a specific need for the information directly related to the completion of the transaction. For example, a dealer may obtain a report, if one is necessary, in order to arrange financing requested by the consumer.(1) The dealer may also obtain a report to check a consumer's creditworthiness when the consumer presents a personal check to pay for the vehicle. By contrast, a permissible purpose would not arise if a consumer intends to pay by cash.

FCRA 819 specifies that a party who knowingly and willfully obtains information from a consumer reporting agency under false pretenses shall be fined under Title 18, United States Code, imprisoned for not more than 2 years, or both."

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 02:26:52 GMT

Thank you for that info! Wow!

No. Two checks were given.

1. Large check from the bank who gave me loan
2. 5k bank check from my account. By bank check I mean i went to the bank, asked for 5k in a certified check from the bank

I keep reading about Patriot Act and how they have to check credit report for possible terrorist actions if 10k+ is given in "cash"

But from what I read "cash" means literally cash and/or personal checks. Which I did neither.

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 03:01:19 GMT

In the future does anyone know if there is something we can write in the signature line in lieu of the actual signature so they dont have a chance to even try to forge a signature.

write "not applicable" maybe on the signature line.

That why I subscribe to prepaid legal (cheap <$20), this stuff are thing prepaid lawyers can easily represent you even dispute the instance to credit company.

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 03:47:02 GMT

I think they pooped their pants because the GM has not tried contacting me. Hes a younger dude. My age (31) or maybe slightly older. And I spoke with him firmly before.

But I emailed them back as I said telling them that wasnt my signature and that I was reporting them using the Fair Credit Reporting Act. Didnt hear a peep from anyone until early morning I get a text with the photo of the letters.

So they know they messed up.

I trashed them on their FB and Google page. I didnt care. I'm sick of that crap. Everyone thinks it's ok to mess around with your life.

Anyway, as for writing something in the sig line....not sure. I've contemplating just wearing a gopro on my hat and speaking clearly and showing clear what and how business is gonna be conducted.

That way anything that's different I can show it was their fault.

Big hassle for something that should be done properly anyway. But customer service doesnt exist anymore. Baffles me.

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:46:52 GMT

noloc45 forging your signature is a serious offense and likely would fall under "forgery" in law (legal and maybe in a report with the local law enforcement). Get your sick of the crap where everyone thinks it's ok to mess around in your life! Feel your madness!!! Where do you stand on a vehicle purchase? If from this dealership, can you return the vehicle in the three day window and get your money back? I sure would not feel comfortable with them after their actions?! The whole thing is unreal and they should feel pain!

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:43:37 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:

Note particularly that the underlying issue is not whether you gave signed permission, it is whether they had permissible purpose under FCRA 604.

How can they have permissible purpose when the OP went into the deal already having secured financing elsewhere and clearly stated such? If he tells the dealer that he doesn't need credit through them, what permissible purpose would they have to HP him? Would they HP him if he had paid cash?

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:54:55 GMT

So Navy Federal opened an auto loan without your approval, and an auto dealer forged your signature and ran your credit without permission. What are the odds that both things happened on a single transaction?

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

Kree — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:07:16 GMT

Please consider reporting to your local police department. Forgery is a serious crime with penalties that can reach 10 years/ $10,000.

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 18:13:41 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
So Navy Federal opened an auto loan without your approval, and an auto dealer forged your signature and ran your credit without permission. What are the odds that both things happened on a single transaction?

My apologies for not being clear...

I had applied for various loans to rate shop. Navy Fed approved me for a super high rate and I didnt sign/accept the loan. Yet after a couple of weeks, they went ahead and open the loan. Stating that "when I applied for the loan, I was expressing the need and want for purchasing something and I did not need to sign to promissory note to accept the loan"

Gave them an earful too and had them close and fix the reporting on my credit.

Fast foward a couple of weeks and Im dealing with the dealership problem now.

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 18:32:56 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
noloc45 forging your signature is a serious offense and likely would fall under "forgery" in law (legal and maybe in a report with the local law enforcement). Get your sick of the crap where everyone thinks it's ok to mess around in your life! Feel your madness!!! Where do you stand on a vehicle purchase? If from this dealership, can you return the vehicle in the three day window and get your money back? I sure would not feel comfortable with them after their actions?! The whole thing is unreal and they should feel pain!

I had already driven away and it was 3-4 days later. I just want to be over with them.

As for legal action...the ONLY reason I havent thought about it is because as I stated in my initial post...

" At first I thought "you know, maybe Im crazy, maybe I DID sign the document and forgot" "

I'm doubting myself a bit because thats just how I am. But again, it would make no sense for me to sign. In fact, prior to even placing the order, sales guy wanted to "check my creditworthiness" and fill out the same app. I told him no because 1) vehicle wasnt even ordered yet much less at the dealership 2) I was gonna do my own rate shopping.

So when he handed me the same app and told me it was just for information for paperwork and not to run credit, I again thought "well Ill give them basic info but I'm not signing" and Im 99% sure thats exactly how it went down. But that 1% is lingering and I dont want to be wrong and cause myself problems.

Again though lol....makes no sense. I already had my financing. Big check in a folder from the CU to hand them. I already knew I didnt want my credit pulled and I wasnt going to authorize them. And although the sig is similar, its NOT my sig and its a different pen.

Ugh...this is beyond stupid. Its like I said, Im going to have to put a gopro on my forehead and record my day to day to prove what I say is true.

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

GApeachy — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 18:27:56 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
"Im traveling soon and I applied for a couple of travel cards and both denied solely on this fact "too many auto loan inquiries"

I had applied for various loans to rate shop. Navy Fed approved me for a super high rate and I didnt sign/accept the loan. Yet after a couple of weeks, they went ahead and open the loan. Stating that "when I applied for the loan, I was expressing the need and want for purchasing something and I did not need to sign to promissory note to accept the loan"

Gave them an earful too and had them close and fix the reporting on my credit.

Fast foward a couple of weeks and Im dealing with the dealership problem now.

Good grief, you just can't win for losing! So sorry you're dealing with stupid stuff/ppl. I'd be ticked off too if I were denied credit due to all those unnecessary inquiries. It will be interesting to see what transpires. Hang in there and keep us posted.

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 18:44:32 GMT

@GApeachy wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
"Im traveling soon and I applied for a couple of travel cards and both denied solely on this fact "too many auto loan inquiries"

I had applied for various loans to rate shop. Navy Fed approved me for a super high rate and I didnt sign/accept the loan. Yet after a couple of weeks, they went ahead and open the loan. Stating that "when I applied for the loan, I was expressing the need and want for purchasing something and I did not need to sign to promissory note to accept the loan"

Gave them an earful too and had them close and fix the reporting on my credit.

Fast foward a couple of weeks and Im dealing with the dealership problem now.
Good grief, you just can't win for losing! So sorry you're dealing with stupid stuff/ppl. I'd be ticked off too if I were denied credit due to all those unnecessary inquiries. It will be interesting to see what transpires. Hang in there and keep us posted.

Yea no kidding.

But thats also a warning to others. I know a lot of people are (I was myself) under the impression that multiple Mortgage and Auto loan inquiries count as one. It does in terms of FICO scoring. But the report will still show multiple inquiries and credit cards dont like that regardless if youre explaining that youre rate shopping.

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

MakingProgress — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 19:29:08 GMT

Similar to you DW and I bought a car 3 weeks ago and when we walked into the dealership we had already secured the financing. I told them up front that we had the financing already. We never talked about monthly payments at all, once we agreed on the price I called my lender told him how much I needed and then went and picked it up. I left a $4K personal check at dealership while I picked up the check. Went back to the dealership and drive off with a new car. No issues then or since with any shenanigans on my CR.

If I was you I would stay away form that dealer in the future.

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 19:35:43 GMT

@MakingProgress wrote:
Similar to you DW and I bought a car 3 weeks ago and when we walked into the dealership we had already secured the financing. I told them up front that we had the financing already. We never talked about monthly payments at all, once we agreed on the price I called my lender told him how much I needed and then went and picked it up. I left a $4K personal check at dealership while I picked up the check. Went back to the dealership and drive off with a new car. No issues then or since with any shenanigans on my CR.

If I was you I would stay away form that dealer in the future.

Happy when it works out for people. I HATE dealerships and sales people in general. I have no sympathy for them.

They gave me nearly 10% under invoice pricing. I was not gonna get that anywhere else here. It just came at the cost of customer service and having to deal with credit reporting

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

FlaDude — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 20:33:32 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Anyway, so I get to the dealership with my check from the bank and all. The sales guy tells me they need some info for the paperwork and records and hands me a credit app but says my credit wont be ran. Fair enough. I fill in the name, address, social and thats all.

For anybody who comes across this thread later, there is no reason to give the dealer your SSN if you are not applying for financing from them.

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

CreditInspired — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 20:48:37 GMT

@Kree wrote:
Please consider reporting to your local police department. Forgery is a serious crime with penalties that can reach 10 years/ $10,000.

+100

This is the first thing I would have done.

Re: Dealership ran credit without permission

DaveInAZ — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 23:10:12 GMT

@FlaDude wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Anyway, so I get to the dealership with my check from the bank and all. The sales guy tells me they need some info for the paperwork and records and hands me a credit app but says my credit wont be ran. Fair enough. I fill in the name, address, social and thats all.
For anybody who comes across this thread later, there is no reason to give the dealer your SSN if you are not applying for financing from them.

True, I wouldn't have filled out a single thing on the credit app, I would handed it back to them and said: "No. I'm not applying for credit from you". Most dealers will try that, the dealer for my car in 2017 tried that when I came in with a pre-approved loan. They want to run your credit so they can try to push a "better" loan on you, "better" for them because they get a commission for the loan.

But also keep all three credit bureaus locked, if they're lock no one can hard pull your credit.