topic Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off in General Credit Topics

Credit Karma score was WAY off

Anonymous — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 05:20:45 GMT

So, I've done my research, and I now know why CK differs so much from everything else. I have a basic understanding of credit and Vantage 3.0 now, but you can imagine my frustration when I found out just how different Vantage 3.0 and FICO Bankcard (or whatever it's called) 8 are.

I noticed on my Citi app the other day, there is a section for your credit score. I've had this card 14 months and had NO clue I could check my credit on there. (The app hasn't really been that great until the last few updates...lots of bugs and crashing.) It shows my FICO Bank something 8

I've been working on my credit since 2017, starting in the mid 400s, and I'm now at 621 (according to lovely CK Vantage 3.0).

You can imagine how LIVID I was to see this other score on my Citi app that said 577.

It's taken me over 2 years to FINALLY get to 600, and I find out I'm not even there yet.

From what I understand, credit card companies typically look at Vantage 3.0, and lenders often lookat some sort of FICO.

Is that correct?

Anyways, I guess I'm gonna have to obsess over my FICO now and put CK in the backseat.

It feels like all my hard work was for not. I know it isn't, but it sure feels that way.

Has anyone else had this crushing reality check?

I will say I am more blessed than most, because I did find out this heart-wrenching news on my own and NOT in a lender's office. I couldn't imagine the pain in that situation.

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

Anonymous — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 05:30:25 GMT

Less than 10% of lenders actually use the vantage score. Now, with that being said.... some lenders will use it on their apps for their site. Capital one is an example. Credit karma is all marketing ploys to get you to apply for cards they're contracted with.

The FICO scores are the most widely using scoring models out there. For credit cards, predominantly the FICO 8, though there are lenders that use a bankcard 8 version and some have even crossed over into the FICO9 models. Just as auto loans have Auto 8 or even Auto 5 though the Auto 5 is older version. Same thing with mortgages.

Older versions of the fico like Fico 2 or bankcard 2 or whatever... are almost non existent.

Focus on improving your Fico 8 scores (or even bank card 8) for now.

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

Anonymous — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 06:36:47 GMT

You have 3 FICO 8 scores not one. You need to get a copy of your credit reports and all 3 FICO scores. You can do this from creditchecktotal.com

it cost $1 for a 7 day trial. Pay, get your scores and cancel right away so you don’t forget. Once you cancel they will downgrade you one free score per month from Experian.

The reason you need to see/monitor all three is different lenders use different ones and they can be vastly different. Once you clean up your reports they tend to get closer in value.

You can also order FICO scores from this site that will give you all your various versions (mortgage FICO, auto FICO, Bankcard etc.) But for now just concentrate on the 3 main ones from Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax which you can get at creditchecktotal.

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

Anonymous — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 09:20:44 GMT

CK **bleep** near gives me “good” TU and EQ scores of 685 and 681, and Cap1 has my EX vantage score at 685 as well.

But in the words of Maury: The results are in and that was a lie.

My fico score 8’s are anywhere from 20 to 40 points less than vscore 3.0.

And yes, CK scores hurt and are very deceiving. But I admit I check my CK scores to lift my spirits a little bit after checking my fico scores. CK is like getting a friend request from a fake hot girl spam/hacker account on FB. You know **bleep** well it’s not real.

Edit: Whoa, sorry for the apparent “curse” words. Didn’t know the d word was bad here.

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

FireMedic1 — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 12:06:36 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
So, I've done my research, and I now know why CK differs so much from everything else. I have a basic understanding of credit and Vantage 3.0 now, but you can imagine my frustration when I found out just how different Vantage 3.0 and FICO Bankcard (or whatever it's called) 8 are.
I noticed on my Citi app the other day, there is a section for your credit score. I've had this card 14 months and had NO clue I could check my credit on there. (The app hasn't really been that great until the last few updates...lots of bugs and crashing.) It shows my FICO Bank something 8
I've been working on my credit since 2017, starting in the mid 400s, and I'm now at 621 (according to lovely CK Vantage 3.0).

You can imagine how LIVID I was to see this other score on my Citi app that said 577.

It's taken me over 2 years to FINALLY get to 600, and I find out I'm not even there yet.

From what I understand, credit card companies typically look at Vantage 3.0, and lenders often lookat some sort of FICO.
Is that correct?

Anyways, I guess I'm gonna have to obsess over my FICO now and put CK in the backseat.
It feels like all my hard work was for not. I know it isn't, but it sure feels that way.

Has anyone else had this crushing reality check?

I will say I am more blessed than most, because I did find out this heart-wrenching news on my own and NOT in a lender's office. I couldn't imagine the pain in that situation.

If you could list what acoounts you have with credit limits/balances, and baddies, or derogs. Maybe we can help you out to achieve better scores. CK is good for keping an eye out for any funny business on your credit reports. Ignore the scores.

Side Note to the other poster. Creditwise by Cap1 is TU not EX.

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

Anonymous — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 16:41:40 GMT

You’re right, i’m not sure how I confused the two. I don’t think i’ve ever seen my EX vantagescore 3.0.

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

Anonymous — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 16:50:11 GMT

Want to know why CK scores are so far off? Because if they tell you that you have a good score then they can't click-bait you to their site and then get click income trying to get you to use their partners to help you "improve" it. I have 800's in FICO-8 on these boards, and I believe that is an accurate score. CK normally runs 100+ points lower than that and will periodically dock me 30-45 points just so they can send me an email telling me about it and trying to get me to their site to "fix" it. Meanwhile, FICO hasn't docked me anything. I have found CK scores to be totally inaccurate and worthless.

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

Physh1 — Mon, 08 Apr 2019 00:34:49 GMT

VantageScore was developed by the three credit reporting companies which are obviously Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion. There is no link between Fico & VS....completely different fundamental functions & calculations. It's like a square peg & round hole....zero in common. If you really just look at VS as an educational platform & basic monitoring it's fine. Credit Sesame uses it too...Amex offers it now too.

I see these Credit Karma/Credit Sesame sucks stuff all over...it's never meant to be something like Fico. They are fundamentally different. It's not CK's 'fault' or Credit Sesame's 'fault'...people just keep putting faith into something they think is something else...

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

AverageJoesCredit — Mon, 08 Apr 2019 00:40:50 GMT

Credit Karma's score arent a joke or a lie, they just happen to true Vantage 3.0 scores. Very different from Fico that for some can be many points higher or lower. Realizing this will save alot of soueness

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

Anonymous — Mon, 08 Apr 2019 01:39:03 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

From what I understand, credit card companies typically look at Vantage 3.0, and lenders often lookat some sort of FICO.
Is that correct?

Not quite. CCCs are lenders as well. It's all the same. Anyone that extends credit, be it via a loan or a revolving account may use a FICO score, an internal scoring system, VS 3.0, or anything else. It just so happens that it's estimated that 90% of lenders (which include CCCs) use FICO scores.

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

Anonymous — Mon, 08 Apr 2019 15:37:29 GMT

I guess I am in the minority when I say my FICO scores turned out to be higher than CK scores. There are a few anomalies with FICO Bankcard and Auto in my case.

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

calyx — Mon, 08 Apr 2019 16:23:26 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I guess I am in the minority when I say my FICO scores turned out to be higher than CK scores. There are a few anomalies with FICO Bankcard and Auto in my case.

My FICOs are way higher than my VS scores, too. Except for one month during my build, they always are/were.

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

DaveInAZ — Mon, 08 Apr 2019 17:25:16 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
CK **bleep** near gives me “good” TU and EQ scores of 685 and 681, and Cap1 has my EX vantage score at 685 as well.

But in the words of Maury: The results are in and that was a lie.

My fico score 8’s are anywhere from 20 to 40 points less than vscore 3.0.

And yes, CK scores hurt and are very deceiving. But I admit I check my CK scores to lift my spirits a little bit after checking my fico scores. CK is like getting a friend request from a fake hot girl spam/hacker account on FB. You know **bleep** well it’s not real.

Edit: Whoa, sorry for the apparent “curse” words. Didn’t know the d word was bad here.

Mine is the opposite, I check CK scores first, then check Fico scores to lift my spirits. My Fico scores are 722-725-730 EX=EQ-TU while my CK Vantage scores are 678-672 TU-EQ. Thank goodness no major lender uses Vantage scores.

And a tip: Credit Karma score is always WAY off, because Vantage is based on a garbage scoring model. And their credit app "recommendations" are also garbage, 75% of their recommendations are for cards I already have, 20% are for lenders like Chase & Citi who would never approve me as I included them in my 2010 BK, and the other 5% are for personal loans I don't need or want.

Other than that, Credit Karma is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

AZEsq — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 02:14:44 GMT

CK is virtually worthless and their scores for me are over 50 points below my ficos. I opt out to all their crappy emails and marketing. The only thing I MAY use them for is to check when I want to see if they reported a payment or large purchase 🤷🏾‍♀️ They report faster than anyone except Experian.

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 12:55:28 GMT

CK isn't worthless at all. Their TU/EQ reports are updated weekly and even more often if you have things changing on your report frequently. That for free is very valuable.

Their VS 3.0 scores are insignificant and unmeaningful, but their reports are an excellent tool.

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 16:07:58 GMT

I have to agree that CK is a very useful tool.
Being able to see changes frequently (and for free), is a huge bonus. The scores may be on a different system but the data is all the same. If you have a derogatory on CK then it's something you need to take care of because it will be on your FICO scored reports as well.
It's all of the same data just weighted differently.

Also, as for me, my CK scores are significantly lower than my FICO scores.

I pull FICO scores once a month and take my CK scores weekly or as often as any changes occur.

YMMV

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

Thomas_Thumb — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 15:24:40 GMT

@Physh1 wrote:
VantageScore was developed by the three credit reporting companies which are obviously Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion. There is no link between Fico & VS....completely different fundamental functions & calculations. It's like a square peg & round hole....zero in common. If you really just look at VS as an educational platform & basic monitoring it's fine. Credit Sesame uses it too...Amex offers it now too.

I see these Credit Karma/Credit Sesame sucks stuff all over...it's never meant to be something like Fico. They are fundamentally different. It's not CK's 'fault' or Credit Sesame's 'fault'...people just keep putting faith into something they think is something else...

^ True VantageScore is a credit scoring model developed independent of Fico. Intent was to compete against Fico with a better algorithm -not be Fico. Thus, the original score range of 501 to 990. However, this score range was not embraced in the marketplace. As a result the score range was changed to 300 - 850 in VS 3.0, specifically to appear more like Fico. That being said the VS algorithm is not a Fico imitation/simulator.

Personally, my VantageScores are closer to my Classic Fico 8 scores than are my Classic Fico 04 or Classic Fico 98 scores. They use different algorithms from one another - but they all give clean files higher scores and reward low utilization.

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 18:03:30 GMT

At the very top end, FICO 8 scores are always going to be higher than VS 3.0 scores I believe. TT can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think 839-840 is about the highest we've seen people report their VS 3.0 scores being, even though the model caps out at 850 just like FICO 8. If you take people with 850 FICO 8 scores, usually their VS 3.0's are in the upper 830's from what I've seen. For example, I'm usually at 850 on FICO 8 and my VS 3.0's are 837-838.

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 21:37:44 GMT

I think vantage scores are fine and everything they recommend to improve your vantage score will also improve your fico scores..

My vantage scores are the lowest @ about 20 poins lower than my fico 8 and then bankcard 8 is another 20-30 points higher than the regular 8.

Right now.. Vantage is 750, Fico 8 is 771, bankcard 8 is 799.. Oldest account is only 1yr 5mo.

It seems the higher my scores get the further fico pulls ahead of Vantage..

Re: Credit Karma score was WAY off

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 04:15:02 GMT

On December 31, 2018 I had a TU VS3 score of 629 with just 1 account on my file - an SSL at 8.47%.

It's now 730 after having 2 cards open for 4 months, and my FICO 8 is 705.

44 points of that jump came this month, when VS3 saw my cards at 3 months old, whereas FICO saw them at 3 last month.

I had a black hole for credit history prior to opening an SSL in December 2017.

When that SSL closed and 2 new revolving reported, TU FICO 8 took a nosedive to 689, but VS3 went up 43 points to 672.