topic Re: Silent triple pulls: How often with apps? in General Credit Topics

Silent triple pulls: How often with apps?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 15:26:48 GMT

I got to thinking about this recently after seeing the "dreaded Cap One triple-pull" mentioned in several threads. Of course we're talking a HP on each of the 3 bureaus here. My question is what about SPs, though? Just because a lender only hits an applicant with one HP, what are the chances that they're doing a SP on at least one or both other bureaus? It would seem to me that would be quite smart for them to do. As I always say, more data is better when it comes to making lending decisions.

Take a lender like Discover for example that may pull EQ for a new application. We already know that Discover does SPs all the time on TU for existing accounts and EX for creditscorecard, so couldn't they in theory be doing a "triple-pull" on their apps that only HP someone on 1 bureau? Wouldn't it be beneficial for them to do so?

This is just something to consider that many people (myself included) may not think about. Sometimes a person will have 1 clean file bureau (say, EX) and 2 dirty ones and then app with a lender that is very likely to pull the clean report (say, Amex in this example) hoping that they won't "see" their 2 dirty reports. In this example above, if Amex were to have done a SP on TU/EQ and seen those 2 dirty files, no doubt it could [adversely] impact that lending decision.

I don't know of any simple way to check your SPs, at least not regularly, but it would be cool to hear from anyone that may have taken a HP for a new credit product that was also able to see a SP at the same time on another bureau from the same potential lender.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this subject?

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

Drwaz99 — Wed, 01 May 2019 17:50:31 GMT

I know that Barclays does. When I applied for their Aviator in January, they HP'ed TU, as expected, then also SP my EX the same day, and then 3 days later as well.

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 10:10:33 GMT

Synchrony SP’d EQ in addition to the TU HP when I got my Amazon Store Card.

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 11:11:01 GMT

This could explain my denial with amex in January.
My only c/o had been removed (didn't show C/O on Experian713 FICO at time but did on Tu , eq until couple days after application.
I think u may be on to something because I have heard of lower scores and younger thinner but also clean profiles approved. But not me...
I might have to check an old report and see if they sp tu or eq

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:39:38 GMT

Good info above guys on SPs also coming on other bureaus from which an app HP was taken. It sounds like this may be more common thing than most would assume. It's definitely good to know and consider though, especially if your reports are dramatically different, such as clean verses dirty.

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:44:19 GMT

Probably happens. Amex double pulled me, ex and one of the other ones. Can't remember which, but both were hard.

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:45:46 GMT

Yeah it’s also something to consider when applying with bureaus frozen because you don’t expect them to be pulled. Since my TU was only 652 but my EQ was 685 at the time, it’s possible my $1800 approval could have been significantly less if my EQ was frozen and thus they couldn’t SP me. I was actually floored when I saw that number pop up given how low my TU actually was, I just knew Synchrony was known to grow so I figured it was better to get it sooner and grow it until I can fit my planned new TV purchase on it next year.

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

Remedios — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:10:47 GMT

Chase will SP frequently in addition to HP.

For me SP was EQ (TrustedID showed SPs), HP on the other two.

I'd call that silent triple pull

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 14:00:47 GMT

Hi Remedios. Can you give us a recap on how TrustedID works? Is it free?

It hadn't occured to me to use it since I can get frequent reports from other free tools, but the soft-pull feature might be enough to make me want to, especially if the soft-pull and locking features apply to all three bureaus.

Did you have to sign up for this shortly after the EQ data breach to get it? Is it too late now?

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

calyx — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 15:10:51 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I got to thinking about this recently after seeing the "dreaded Cap One triple-pull" mentioned in several threads. Of course we're talking a HP on each of the 3 bureaus here. My question is what about SPs, though? Just because a lender only hits an applicant with one HP, what are the chances that they're doing a SP on at least one or both other bureaus? It would seem to me that would be quite smart for them to do. As I always say, more data is better when it comes to making lending decisions.

Take a lender like Discover for example that may pull EQ for a new application. We already know that Discover does SPs all the time on TU for existing accounts and EX for creditscorecard, so couldn't they in theory be doing a "triple-pull" on their apps that only HP someone on 1 bureau? Wouldn't it be beneficial for them to do so?

This is just something to consider that many people (myself included) may not think about. Sometimes a person will have 1 clean file bureau (say, EX) and 2 dirty ones and then app with a lender that is very likely to pull the clean report (say, Amex in this example) hoping that they won't "see" their 2 dirty reports. In this example above, if Amex were to have done a SP on TU/EQ and seen those 2 dirty files, no doubt it could [adversely] impact that lending decision.

I don't know of any simple way to check your SPs, at least not regularly, but it would be cool to hear from anyone that may have taken a HP for a new credit product that was also able to see a SP at the same time on another bureau from the same potential lender.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this subject?

I know it's probably something of an odd hobby, but I do periodically check and log my SPs.
No, it's not easy, it's probably silly - but I do think it's interesting - for cases like Disco, Sync, and Citi that offer credit monitoring I try to match up the bureaus/dates to exclude that info.

For apps:
USBank - SPed EQ when they HPed TU (cold apped)
Sync - SP EQ when they HPed TU (cold apped)

Others:
Chase - HP EQ and EX, but have been soft pulling my EX since then (cold apped), but I know Chase is a known watcher.
Disco - SPed EX when they HPed EQ on account application, but I use the prequal on it.

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

Remedios — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 15:18:14 GMT

@calyx Chase stopped SPs for me after CSP app about 6-8 weeks later. During that time, one SP on EX every two weeks 😐

I felt like I robbed them the entire time

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 15:21:37 GMT

@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
Probably happens. Amex double pulled me, ex and one of the other ones. Can't remember which, but both were hard.

Double hard pulls aren't uncommon; Chase does this often. I'm much more interested in the SPs though that go along with a HP, as those are the silent ones that people many times don't know even happened.

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 15:23:28 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
Chase will SP frequently in addition to HP.
For me SP was EQ (TrustedID showed SPs), HP on the other two.

I'd call that silent triple pull

Great data above on the silent triple pull. I received a double HP from Chase as well, but have no idea if they grabbed a SP on the 3rd bureau at the same time. It sounds like it definitely could have happened, though.

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

Remedios — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 15:30:25 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Hi Remedios. Can you give us a recap on how TrustedID works? Is it free?

It hadn't occured to me to use it since I can get frequent reports from other free tools, but the soft-pull feature might be enough to make me want to, especially if the soft-pull and locking features apply to all three bureaus.

Did you have to sign up for this shortly after the EQ data breach to get it? Is it too late now?

Signed up after data breach. EQ ended it in February of this year for me.

It's no longer available for anyone.

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

calyx — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 15:57:14 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
@calyx Chase stopped SPs for me after CSP app about 6-8 weeks later. During that time, one SP on EX every two weeks 😐
I felt like I robbed them the entire time

YUP, I just looked, and sho' nuff, every two weeks.

It's that jerk you only went on a couple of dates with that thinks they should know who you're hanging out with all the time.

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

Remedios — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 16:01:57 GMT

@calyx wrote:
@Remedios wrote:
@calyx Chase stopped SPs for me after CSP app about 6-8 weeks later. During that time, one SP on EX every two weeks 😐
I felt like I robbed them the entire time
YUP, I just looked, and sho' nuff, every two weeks.

It's that jerk you only went on a couple of dates with that thinks they should know who you're hanging out with all the time.

I hate "whatcha doin'" pulls.

I also looked and there are two SPs from US bank. I know one was for checking, but the other one corresponds with Cash+ app, so they SP EX in addition to TU HP.

Re: Do lenders extra pull [SP] often with apps?

calyx — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 16:19:10 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
@calyx wrote:
@Remedios wrote:
@calyx Chase stopped SPs for me after CSP app about 6-8 weeks later. During that time, one SP on EX every two weeks 😐
I felt like I robbed them the entire time
YUP, I just looked, and sho' nuff, every two weeks.

It's that jerk you only went on a couple of dates with that thinks they should know who you're hanging out with all the time.

I hate "whatcha doin'" pulls.

I also looked and there are two SPs from US bank. I know one was for checking, but the other one corresponds with Cash+ app, so they SP EX in addition to TU HP.

I noticed USBank has a couple of extra SPs in there, but at least it's a couple of extras over several months, not a driveby every night
Plus my USBank is secured, I know they don't auto-graduate, but I might automatically get funneled into the greater risk pile.

Re: Silent triple pulls: How often with apps?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 16:18:26 GMT

This is awesome that you thought about this. Obviously this is not talked about often.
Now it seems like most smart Banks check all of your credit so does it really even matter which one gets the hard pull...
this is interesting to me especially since my TransUnion is my best score and least inquiries, but can't find anything besides PayPal that will pull my transunion and I don't know what I think about that card. Great data on this thread.
It just makes sense that they would do this but I never thought about it LOL

Re: Silent triple pulls: How often with apps?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 21:35:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
This is awesome that you thought about this. Obviously this is not talked about often.
Now it seems like most smart Banks check all of your credit so does it really even matter which one gets the hard pull...

That's sort of my thought here... that the HP may not be any more relevant (other than the physical HP) in many cases than SPs on the other 1-2 bureaus when it comes to making lending decisions.

During my rebuild when did two different mini (3-4 card) sprees, I always did research on here and other tools like the then Credit Pulls Database to determine which bureau was likely to be pulled (HP) for the app, but I never once considered the SPs that could go along with the HP(s).

Re: Silent triple pulls: How often with apps?

SoCalifornia — Wed, 01 May 2019 02:34:20 GMT

Good thread. Comprehensive thinking. Unofficial proof that ALL of your credit matters. I wonder if the HP's are just a suggestion to the consumer which bureau a lender favors, to blind us to the fact that they keep more precise tabs on what we are doing with said credit.

You know. "Kansas City Shuffle", "All that Glitters..." and so on. Anyway, good stuff 🤓