topic Re: Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire) in General Credit Topics

Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire)

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Jul 2019 22:09:36 GMT

I had a strange retalliation by a travel insurance company where I used Chase Sapphire since I'm travelling often and it suppose to be a go-to card for travellers. I purchased a travel insurance and wanted to cancel days before my trip commences. Although the ToC doesn't say anything about cancellations, the vendor insisted not to cancel. I warned them that I'm going to dispute on credit card and the customer service did not care at all.

I filed my dispute with Chase and left for my trip. Few weeks later, I got an email from insurance company notifying that my insurance coverage has been suspended because I filed a dispute. I stuck with no coverage overseas. On top of that, they are asking for $75 reinstantion fee if dispute get resolved in their favour.

I called Chase and tried to talk with the dispute department and they said the dispute has been sent to the vendor and they can't do anything unless vendor responds within given time frame which is 60 days. I'll be back home by then and there is no meaning of having an insurance if it's cancelled in the middle of my trip.

Are these kind of retalliations by vendors common? What should we do about it?

Re: Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire)

SBR249 — Fri, 19 Jul 2019 22:19:41 GMT

I'm a little confused maybe I'm not reading your post correctly. You purchased travel insurance which you wanted to cancel but then you are worried about not having travel insurance coverage? If so, why did you try to cancel and then dispute the insurance charge?

Re: Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire)

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Jul 2019 22:35:18 GMT

I know it sounds awkward.

Yes, I wanted to cancel. They did not. I filed a dispute. Meanwhile, a few weeks passed, I left for my trip knowing that I have an insurance coverage that I paid for.

Now I'm in a state that I don't have a coverage [for the remaining time on my trip] that I paid for full. Also there is no guarantee that I'll be refunded for unused portion.

Re: Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire)

SBR249 — Fri, 19 Jul 2019 22:44:13 GMT

I think you are getting a bit ahead there. There are 2 outcomes:

1. Dispute is ruled in your favor. You get money back but no coverage

2. You lose the dispute and you are charged for the coverage. Now I'm not a lawyer, but unless the T&C in the insurance specifically says that coverage is suspended in case of dispute and is not reinstated without a fee, the fact is that you will have paid for the coverage and it would be fraudulent for the insurance company to not provide coverage while still taking your money, especially if they didn't spell out the dispute procedures upfront. If you end up needing that coverage, you may have to resort to legal means.

At this point, the dispute is ongoing so there's nothing that you can do except wait until the time is up and you get a resolution.

The way I see it, you've done all you can to get your money back. If coverage is really that important to you, you probably shouldn't have tried to cancel. If it wasn't that important then, it shouldn't matter now.

Edit: I will add that insurance coverage can be retroactive. Just because it's currently in limbo due to the dispute doesn't mean that you won't be "covered" if the dispute is resolved in the insurance company's favor and you end up having to pay anyway. If you paid for it, you paid for it.

Edit 2: might also be a good idea to check your documents carefully to see whether there's mention of a reinstatement fee in case you have to prove that the insurance company wasn't upfront about that.

Re: Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire)

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Jul 2019 23:08:01 GMT

Thanks, SBR249!

Especially reminding me that insurance coverage can be retroactive.

If I lose the dispute and I choose to not pay reinstantiation fee, I would get no coverage which I paid for.
There is no mention of reinstantiation fee anywhere and there is no dispute procedures laid out.

If it comes to that, I could pay the reinstantiation under protest reserving the right to dispute later and I dispute again with documentation.

Re: Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire)

NRB525 — Sat, 20 Jul 2019 01:12:02 GMT

How much did you pay for the travel insurance?

Re: Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire)

Anonymous — Sat, 20 Jul 2019 01:25:49 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I know it sounds awkward.

Yes, I wanted to cancel. They did not. I filed a dispute. Meanwhile, a few weeks passed, I left for my trip knowing that I have an insurance coverage that I paid for.

Now I'm in a state that I don't have a coverage [for the remaining time on my trip] that I paid for full. Also there is no guarantee that I'll be refunded for unused portion.

Do you not see the logical error here? You can't cancel, in effect un-pay something, and then expect to enjoy the benefit of it. "Well, it's not canceled *yet*, it's just in process," is not sufficient. The act of revoking payment also revokes (or so one would hope in a rational world) what was paid for.

Re: Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire)

Anonymous — Sat, 20 Jul 2019 03:33:50 GMT

I find it hard to believe that the terms and conditions did not cover cancellations. Especially in 2019 in a heavily regulated industry like insurance. Even if they have a no cancellations allowed policy, that’s still a cancellation policy and would be spelled out.

Also, a company wanting to get paid is not retaliation. Logically the fact the they can reinstate the policy for a fee means some form of cancellation exist. Otherwise there would be no need for a reinstatement policy.

Re: Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire)

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sat, 20 Jul 2019 03:48:13 GMT

You paid for insurance and then tried to cancel it. When they refused to cancel, you disputed it. Disputing something would get you a refund if it works out in your favor so the insurance company suspended coverage to make sure you didn't get any benefits and a possible refund later. Why are you upset about not having insurance? You tried to cancel the insurance, why does it matter that you're not covered? Or are you just concerned now that in the end, they may side with the insurance company and you lose the money while not being covered?

Re: Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire)

Anonymous — Sat, 20 Jul 2019 04:26:36 GMT

@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
You paid for insurance and then tried to cancel it. When they refused to cancel, you disputed it. Disputing something would get you a refund if it works out in your favor so the insurance company suspended coverage to make sure you didn't get any benefits and a possible refund later. Why are you upset about not having insurance? You tried to cancel the insurance, why does it matter that you're not covered? Or are you just concerned now that in the end, they may side with the insurance company and you lose the money while not being covered?

I have no idea if this is the case, but there are scenarios where OPs actions make sense.

I buy a policy from company A. Later I discover a very similar policy from company B at a much lower price. I attempt to cancel the coverage from A and plan to use part of the money to buy from company B. However, A gives me pushback and won't return the money, so I don't want to pay additional money to company B, and go ahead, assuming that now I have coverage from A, and I just paid too much.

More due diligence would be good in this hypothetical case, but with something similar, the OP wasn't being totally foolish!

Re: Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire)

Anonymous — Sat, 20 Jul 2019 05:12:25 GMT

longtimelurker,

That's exactly what happened. I was originated to this insurance company by the travel agency organized my trip. I was lazy and went through this company without much thinking. The price tag was $250 for 6 weeks. After some quick search, I found much better coverage for $60-$70 elsewhere. Then I realized that I got ripped off and tried to fix it before the trip started.

At this point, the logical outcome should be either 1) refund and no coverage, 2) no refund but coverage. But it shouldn't be in a limbo like no refund but no coverage either.

Apperantly, the insurance company is pushing things to that direction by saying 1) we won't refund you, 2) meanwhile we suspended your coverage, just in case, 3) pay us $75 for reinstantation if you want to come back.

If worse comes worse, I see the only way out is to pay reinstantation under protest and dispute again. (or maybe just buy a policy from a relaible company for $60)

Edit: Someone replied that insurance industry is heavily regulated. Yes, it's. But only in US. Outbound travel insurance companies *likely* not regulated. In this particular case, the underwriting firm is Lloyd's of London.

Re: Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire)

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sat, 20 Jul 2019 05:20:49 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
You paid for insurance and then tried to cancel it. When they refused to cancel, you disputed it. Disputing something would get you a refund if it works out in your favor so the insurance company suspended coverage to make sure you didn't get any benefits and a possible refund later. Why are you upset about not having insurance? You tried to cancel the insurance, why does it matter that you're not covered? Or are you just concerned now that in the end, they may side with the insurance company and you lose the money while not being covered?
I have no idea if this is the case, but there are scenarios where OPs actions make sense.

I buy a policy from company A. Later I discover a very similar policy from company B at a much lower price. I attempt to cancel the coverage from A and plan to use part of the money to buy from company B. However, A gives me pushback and won't return the money, so I don't want to pay additional money to company B, and go ahead, assuming that now I have coverage from A, and I just paid too much.

More due diligence would be good in this hypothetical case, but with something similar, the OP wasn't being totally foolish!

You forgot the dispute for company A causing your money to be tied up while they suspend the policy so they don't lose money, or in their eyes, ripped off

Re: Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire)

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sat, 20 Jul 2019 05:49:51 GMT

I'm with the other guy, there has to be something in the contract about cancellations and penalties. I don't see how they can just add a reinstatement fee that wasn't disclosed up front. You're also going to have a hard time with that dispute after the fact if you accept their coverage. I would think that by paying the fee they could argue that you reaffirmed the original contract pricing and terms by paying it to get coverage back. You could get the chargeback, but I wouldn't be surprised if they took you to court over it. Personally, I'd leave it suspended to not risk issues with the chargeback and just buy the other, cheaper insurance.

Re: Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire)

Berk — Sat, 20 Jul 2019 17:04:31 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
longtimelurker,
That's exactly what happened. I was originated to this insurance company by the travel agency organized my trip. I was lazy and went through this company without much thinking. The price tag was $250 for 6 weeks. After some quick search, I found much better coverage for $60-$70 elsewhere. Then I realized that I got ripped off and tried to fix it before the trip started.

At this point, the logical outcome should be either 1) refund and no coverage, 2) no refund but coverage. But it shouldn't be in a limbo like no refund but no coverage either.

Apperantly, the insurance company is pushing things to that direction by saying 1) we won't refund you, 2) meanwhile we suspended your coverage, just in case, 3) pay us $75 for reinstantation if you want to come back.
If worse comes worse, I see the only way out is to pay reinstantation under protest and dispute again. (or maybe just buy a policy from a relaible company for $60)

Edit: Someone replied that insurance industry is heavily regulated. Yes, it's. But only in US. Outbound travel insurance companies *likely* not regulated. In this particular case, the underwriting firm is Lloyd's of London.

Filing a dispute is not going to fix your issue. You paid for a service, later found out that you paid more than you wanted to, filed a dispute with Chase saying that the Lloyd's charge should not be there because the vendor charged me more than I wanted to pay for insurance. The policy itself is not fraudulent or empty - it just cost you more than you wanted to pay. So, from Chase's standpoint it doesn't arise to fraud and from Lloyd's standpoint since you already purchased the insurance and are now disputing that insurance, they can't let you use it so they suspend it. Insurance fraud is huge. Lloyd's will not take any chances. Lloyd's has been in business for a very long time and prides themselves for the quality of service they offer. Also, I'm guessing the insurance is only underwritten by Lloyd's but sold by someone else.

Is the 60-70 dollar insurance better because of the price or does it offer better/more coverage for 70% to 75% less money? And if you bought it through a travel agency, they are going to add on their percentage and resell it to you. And, you get what you pay for. Some travel insurance comes with a concierge who will call and arrainge tee times for you, get you concert tickets, etc.

I'm guessing the final outcome is going to be that you get little to no money back and don't get the benefit of the insurance. I'd be happily surprised for you if it turns out different. I do, however, hope the best for you.

Re: Retaliated for Disputing (Chase Sapphire)

zerofire — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 19:31:28 GMT

Oh man. The problem with insurance is that it is generally all written down including a cancellation policy. Now Lloids is a well known bank so the I am fairly certain that the travel agency policy is good. The problem is that you went the wrong way about canceling it as you were supposed to talk to your agent and not Chase. Most likely the travel agency will charge your card the additional $75 once they win the dispute. My real head scratcher is since you have a Chase Sapphire why did you not use the coverage included in that card? Clearly the travel agency was happy to charge it. I recommend double checking your available policies and finding the combo that works for you.